Can someone please help?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on October 23, 2008 at 4:30am

First why do you think this person is suicidal?
Second you cannot take anyone who are suicidal, since it is a liability, and by law it can makes you responsible for the damage or death of that person.

Someone who is suicidal need to be seen by a psychologist or refear him to the suciadal hot line.
Call 1-800- SUICIDE / 1-800-784-2433; Call 1-800-273-TALK / 1-800-273-8255 ...

Hope I could help.
Doreen Cohanim C.Ht, MM
www.EnterYourMind.com

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by chris john on October 23, 2008 at 4:46am

id say avoid at all costs, and refer them to a GP.
be very, very carefull.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Henxy on October 23, 2008 at 5:57am

Hi Chloe-Marie.
This is not something that you can risk getting wrong!
A suicidal person does not tend to be rational (yet there are those who are), and therefore cannot consent to treatment from you.
Mental health crisis workers (in whatever form- drs/psyche nurses/mental health charities etc) are much better equipped to help a suicidal person, and should be given that opportunity. Helping them to access emergency mental health care is the best and most appropriate thing to do.
Do not put words into someone's mouth though! Someone may say that they feel 'depressed', yet would never consider suicide or self harm. They also might just be feeling a bit down after some bad news. If you are not a mental health professional, you may not be able to tell the difference. Get them help, explain why you can't help them at this time, and know that you have done your bit. You will have helped them, just perhaps not in the way you (or they) expect.Quoting the person verbatim may assist mental health professionals (i.e. telling them exactly what the client said, rather than what you think they said, or meant to say) can be of enormous assistance.

Well done for anticipating such a situation before it presents itself in your work.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on October 23, 2008 at 7:10am

One thing that has not been mentioned is how you 'deal' with the person (as you are walking them to the nearest GP or giving them the 1-800 number to call). What they want is 'hope'. You can be very beneficial to them by how you structure your words at this point. You should NOT take them as a client. But with that said, if you do happen to have someone come into your office and then they pop it on you... what do you say? It is good to be prepared. You just can't blurt out "OH CRAP!! GET OUT!" You would have dashed their last hope - which would be silly in my opinion.

I really do not know exactly what I would say. I do, however, believe that I would slip in somewhere (as I am walking them to the door?), something about: that with lifes conflicts, sometimes we can gain strength from all that we have witnessed and all that we have lived through. Adversity and suffering can be productive (if not beautiful??) making us more sympathetic, stronger...and wiser.

Seriously - I don't know what I would say between the "they said IT" and me getting them the information they need.

Good question - one that should be considered, so we could be more of the solution: all words count.

~~D

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Sannicandro on October 23, 2008 at 7:48am

There is a posting on one of the blogs that is similar and would have good information on what to do.

This points out one of the reasons that what the medical community calls "lay" hypnotherapists probably shouldn't be dealing in therapy without proper training to deal with situations such as this. I am new to hypnotherapy but have been a licensed therapist for 10 years. To me, any reputable association that certifies hypno"therapists" should train its members on how to handle such situations. It is not merely enough to refer them out because a suicide may occur after you give a referral and before they follow up with your referal. You then are responsible because you are the last treater and own that client until a completed referal is made.

For those without a psychotherapy background and license I would encourage them to stay within their area of competence and if you have to ask the question"What should I do?" then you are not ready for such a client.

There is an adage in psychotherapy about competence- When in doubt refer out. In the case of a suicidal client you need to make sure that the referal is followed up on because a life is at stake here.

As a therapist that has had clients suicide I can tell you that even if you do all the right things and still lose the client to suicide, it is a lonely feeling.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gerry on October 23, 2008 at 12:39pm

I remember my first client that was suicidal. I had a phone call from a woman who was worried about her 40 yr old daughter, her daughter that had lost her 6wk old baby to cot death 8yrs previously. Her mother was telling me about her daughter having therapy with the local mental health group for the past 8yrs. She said the family are at their wit’s end and just don’t know what to do as she seemed to have got worse. Someone had given them my phone number. I agreed to have a consultation with her daughter and her daughter’s husband. When I arrived at the home I was greeted by the husband and shown into their living room the TV was blearing and the radio was on, she said that they had to be like this as the neighbours were shouting things at her for killing her baby. Her husband sat with his head in his hands and she told me she never got any rest as people would come round shouting through the letter box at her. Her husband made me a cup of tea and while we were left on our own she gave me the suggestion that she was going to attempt to take her own life.
I agreed to take her on as a client on the condition that I could contact her GP and the mental health group she was with. I then contacted the mental health group and GP telling them my findings and letting them know my line of communication were open, my client was going to see the mental health team the next day, I spoke to them expressing my concern, only to get a call that evening from the mother saying her daughter had attempted to take her own life.
I was booked to see her 2 days later which I did and the very same day she went to her babies grave which she had never done, the mental health team spoke to me and 3 sessions later when I visited the TV and radio was off and she greeted me telling me she was back, what a wonderful feeling from seeing this scared child like woman now going to art class’s and even has a part time job.
For my client and her family just hearing 'yes, I hear you. Yes, I recognize that this is a really tough situation. I'll be glad to listen. If I can't do anything, then we'll find someone who can.'" Made so much difference
Her GP phoned me asking me how I help people with phobias, so I know I now have a line of communication with the local area’s doctors
Sorry, I haven’t really answered the discussion, have I, but that is how I handled my first suicidal client.
Good post Chloe-Marie

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Richard Craig on October 23, 2008 at 1:19pm

Hi Chloe-Marie,

Great question, and on I feel that deserves an answer with a therapeutic approach.

A person who is suicidal basically has no compelling future.

No matter what the cause, the key has to be in re-kindling their desire to live, and creating such a powerful compelling future in both the short and long term.

I would also take them on a journey along their time line, removing the old unresourceful feelings for the emotions of anger, sadness, fear, hurt and guilt, whilst reframing the event with positive learnings from the experience. This can be done at an unconscious, disassociated level, so as not to have the client associate with those unresourceful emotions.

If you are not experienced at this, then from a safety perspective set some positive resourceful bail-out anchors, and train the client to disassociate by taking a few deep breaths.

Personally I would do this as following the sequence of bail out anchoring, short term compelling future, timeline, compelling long term future, resource anchoring.

Rich.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by James Hammett on October 24, 2008 at 2:34am

There was a post few (?) weeks ago about this same issue. In that case the person spoke to a professional (his wife, a Nurse working at a local hospital) about it. Went and picked up the patient and took her to the Emergency Room of the local hospital. He spoke to a supervisor in the ER, with his notes, and was able to get her (the patient) admitted for psychiatric evaluation.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find the exact link, but there were several useful pieces of advice in that thread. They key item was getting them to someone who was capable of/expected to handle that sort of thing.

Good luck

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on October 24, 2008 at 7:46am

So I ask you: When is it okay for a "lay" hypnotherapist to become a "real" hypnotherapist and be able to shake off that nasty label of "lay"?
Is it when they have 'practiced' on people for 5, 10, or 20 years? So experience has given them the right? Or...is it when they get a masters in psych.? Or a Phd? ...and can dole out the drugs that are so poplular to mask human emotions (many caused by the lack of proper nutrition)? Or the 1200 hours of community service? I must point out that my experience tells me that regardless of where a person learns it (in class or on the road, 1st day or 10 years from now) - how a person takes in information and how they apply this information - is more important; something that can not clearly be identified by the final exam.
I have met too many 'unqualified' qualified people. I am curious when they will be qualified, if ever, to handle human problems? Because now that they are deemed qualified - what is the motivation to find out what they don't know?

>I am laughing< truly... this isn't a 'hot topic' for me. I deal with low key issues, motivational issues, nutrition issues, and operant conditioning.
However, It always strikes me a bit funny (like I just hit my funny bone - YOW, ya... one of those annoyances >grin<) when I hear of 'the medical community' refering to anyone as anything - when many TOO MANY of the psychs and docs do not know basic nutritional needs of humans - something that is KEY in behavior.

Sticking to what I am qualified to do - or uh... am I qualified?
Or wait... this isn't real.
~~D.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on October 24, 2008 at 9:14am

Would it be okay to be a "Great Lay" Hypnotist - Donna?

What I have found very useful is to make the case that: Certified Hypnosis professionals are not at odds with most licensed health care practitioners. We only have a problem with a subset of shrinks and therapists who pass themselves off as experts in hypnosis. These are the self-proclaimed "experts" who misinform the major news outlets by claiming they want to protect the public - when, in actuality, they are standing in the way of Certified Hypnosis Professionals who simply want to take their rightful place in their health care communities. Podiatrists, optometrists, midwives, chiropractors and psychologists all suffered a similar backlash and operated within the same realm of "quackery" in the recent past. Now is the time to expose the licensed shrinks and therapists who are more interested in protecting their turf and their wallets than in protecting the public's health and well being.

Ciao for now-

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on October 24, 2008 at 3:05pm

I wanted to really feel this out before answering your request-- Chloe-Marie

FYI - I have a lot of experience running a help line for people with AIDS related fears and conditions and I have helped 100s of people who have told me that they were contemplating suicide in the context of being a New York State certified HIV-counselor.

If a potential hypnosis client asked for help saying that they were feeling suicidal or thinking about suicide - I would ask them if they are taking any medications and look up the adverse effects. It could be their "medication."

Now, I would really want to help and I understand that it's a question of staying within our scope of practice. I am thinking that I would probably tell the client that I really think that hypnosis could help them put the thrill of living back into their lives -- but the law requires my doing so under the supervision of a licensed mental health professional and go on recommend a holistic mental health care professional who uses food and counseling instead of drugs. I also request an emergency contact on my intake form and I would call and ask for advice and help if I felt I needed it.

I hope that helps...

Michael

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Sannicandro on October 25, 2008 at 2:36am

My point was not to offend but to point out an obvious thing. If a "certified" hypnotherapist (emphasize the "therapist") does not know how to deal with suicidal ideation, then whatever certification they have received is clearly lacking. Suicidal thoughts are very common in mental health and anybody who is called a therapist should be trained in diagnosis, documentation, safety planning, and other needed skills to increase the chances of keeping clients alive. If the "what should I do?" question arises then it is clearly out of the scope of the therapists practice.

Medication certainly is not the be all and end all of mental health treatment, but there is too often a criticism in holistic treatment to believe that it is a sham. It is needed and in many cases it is lifesaving. No hypnotherapist should ever recommend or suggest to a client that they get off their medication without a MD's support as this is both illegal, unethical and dangerous. To do so puts the hypnotherapist at great liability risk.

And Donna, I get what you are saying, but I'd suggest that hypnotherapist could learn a lot from mental health as a profession. In my state a psychotherapist needs 3700 client contact hours under the supervision of a licensed and approved supervisor in order to be licensed to practice. I don't believe that any hypnotherapy certifying board requires anything close to this. A clinician also must accumulate 30 additional classroom hours every two years or his license is suspended. In addition their clinical records can be reviewed in any place that they work to see if they are exercising a reasonable level of care.

Mental health conditions such as major depression are MEDICAL conditions and need to be respected.I would think that a good relationship between mental health professionals and hypnotists is a great asset in treatment.

It is interesting to note that there are a lot of psychotherapists using hypnosis as part of their clinical practice who have learned the technique from books and have no formal training. While this is not dangerous, it is a waste of time and yes Donna extremely arrogant. To think that one can use hypnosis without training in a formal setting is very misguided.

Please don't think that those of us who do have backgrounds in psychotherapy don't have much to offer because I can assure you we do. Our training prepares us for what we do far better than the average hypnotist is prepared for what they do. I hope to be one of those psychotherapists that has received proper training in both areas.

Respectfully,
John

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page