Can someone please help?

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Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on October 25, 2008 at 7:24am

I believe I understand what you are saying (in my paradigm, with my interpretation)...who knows if I really understand - but ~I am laughing~ I understand what I think you are trying to say.
I...am a proponent of all education and I am currently moving toward that goal mentioned of someday completing my million hours of supervised training. I, of anyone I know, am an advocate of the Mental Health Profession and may be a lifetime student because of my need to get more information!
Its exhausting…I rarely have time for anything else but my next class. ~grin~
However, regardless of how many times I have heard the talk about suicide or read the information about suicide… it just hasn’t reared its ugly head in my training. So…I am not embarrassed to say “I don’t know what I would do.” Nor will I or do I feel the need to hide those feelings and I hope others do not get scared to post because of the fear someone, who obviously knows more about something, will think they are lacking(?).

You said: “Please don't think that those of us who do have backgrounds in psychotherapy don't have much to offer because I can assure you we do.”
I’m moving toward that goal as we speak… I assure you I believe that many have something to offer.

I just want to point out that we should also know that those who have backgrounds in only hypnosis can be very helpful and have much to offer the public. I can’t speak for all the schools but I know the school I went to, did offer information about suicide. They did tell me ‘how to deal with it’. Did it give me “LIVE” coverage? – no. However, I don’t plan on hiding away and never using any of my hypnosis training, in fear that I might run into that potential suicide case. If I worked under those guidelines…of not doing anything until I get experience in it – I would be stuck doing nothing. Because, by nature a person has to experience it to get the experience, right? It is kind of that old saying: “they won’t hire me until I get experience – but I need experience to get hired.” And if you think further... you will notice all those people afraid of all the things they will fail at - who never start anything - sit for days on the couch, crying woe is me... If I were to be that person - afraid of that 'what if' scenerio, I would be seeking therapy instead of offering it.
Therapy, by definition is a method of healing. Simply listening to someone is therapy.
Therapist, by definition is a person skilled at a particular type of therapy.
Although, as you can see, I am very good at talking…and talking…and talking,
I am also very good at listening.
AND...If I do say so myself...I am very good at hypnosis. I plan on sharing it.

Back to the "I don't know" subject...
You said: If the "what should I do?" question arises then it is clearly out of the scope of the therapists practice.

In this area I totally disagree with you. I think many people don’t know – will they admit it? I don’t know! ~grin~ People REALLY don’t know until they have been hit with an example. I don’t agree that if a person admits that they don’t know…that they shouldn’t be a therapist. If that was the case… every therapist and doctor would be kicked out of their trade for one reason or another. You say that if they don’t know about suicide – OUT! I say if the therapist and doctor doesn't know about basic, human nutrition (the results of toxins in the body and blood sugar imbalances and all its nuances) – OUT! Who gets to decide? Who gets the final say? If everyone had a say…there would be so many people with so many OUT factors…we would be left with no one qualified.
So what is better... everyone having a bit of knowledge and helping where they can OR not helping anyone because one area of lacking (which we all have) has made us exempt from helping at all?

Respectfully respecting,
~~D

P.S. Thanks for the conversation - I do believe I will be focused more on learning/seeking hours in an area where suicide may be an issue

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Permalink Reply by Amanda Irvine on October 25, 2008 at 9:11am

oh man I hate to hear these cases, but what you must do is get her immediate help and saftey if required, I have been in her shoes before, and she's lost she's looking for help, and she found you... You may not be her help but she hopes that you can help her... Unfortunatly due to ethics she told you that she was suicidal, this requires immediate attention.... and like Icehypnosis said, you have a liability just because you know... Help her find the help she needs and I am sure all will turn out right... If you need someone to talk to just let me know... I have a great understanding for what both of you are going through~
Best Wishes
Amanda

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Permalink Reply by Bobby Herdman on October 25, 2008 at 2:05pm

I recently worked with a suicidal client. I'm sorry but if someone comes to see me and needs help and I feel I can help them without putting them at risk then I will assess the situation before I make a quick judgment to refer them on to the medical profession. Society tends to put labels on people, suicidal, Depression Alcoholism etc Its a way of categorizing people, sometimes unnecessary ...This leads to a feeling of hopelessness. Being suicidal is not the problem, it is only a symptom of the problem. You just don't wake up one day and say"I'm suicidal" Its a process that leads to the ultimate suicidal feelings..... I started by taking her from the suicidal feelings and backtracked to what led to this feeling and what lead to the feeling before that and what lead to the feeling before that and so on. It all started from her boyfriend telling her he was leaving her. SO when I found the cause I started to changed her perception about him and continued to break her state. Then I taught her some self hypnosis, and worked on her confidence issues. I have taken the time to spend quality time with my client, and basically dissecting how she got to where she though of suicide and what she would need to have or be to get her life back. Then I did a goal setting workshop with her to bring some of the excitement and passion back into her life by helping her see what a bright future she had ahead of her. Sometimes you have to think out of the box....I know this is not appropriate in all cases but sometimes a little fact finding with a good pre-talk can make all the difference.

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Permalink Reply by John Sannicandro on October 25, 2008 at 4:13pm

Society is not where the label suicidal comes from, nor is it something the medical community does. A client that tells you that they are contemplating killing themselves defines themselves as suicidal even if that is not the word they use. Situations like the one you were in can work out well, but are very risky and would best be handled with another professional involved. In cases of suicidality a second pair of eyes and ears is a good thing.

A little fact finding is a good thing also but it should be documentated that at the time the client left you the client verified verbally that they would not suicide and if they did you still could be liable because you do not possess the training to make such an accurate diagnosis. I don't necessarily agree that you would be liable but unfortunately that is the law.

Yes, people don't suddenly become suicidal. First they are depressed and later become suicidal. A diagnostic term is sometimes the best and briefest way to describe a clients current state of mind. It includes not only symptoms but the frequency, intensity and duration of these symptoms. Labels sadly can be damaging to people but so can not receiving the proper treatment in time.

It's ok to think outside the box after it is certain the client is safe and no longer suicidal.

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Permalink Reply by Bobby Herdman on October 26, 2008 at 5:39am

Hi John,
I totally agree with everything you have said, and as I said my approach is not appropiate in all cases. If I had of felt I was not able to help my client I had discussed I would have referred her onto a more competent professional. But in this case I had a feeling in my gut that I was able to help her. But your point is 100% right.
Bobby H

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on October 26, 2008 at 7:23am

People DO suddenly become suicidal!
Emergency and Intensive care units the world over are full of them!
Depression with suicidal intent is not the same as a suicidal person, just as a self-harmer does not need to want to die, just as an impulsive overdose can lead to suicide however much the person regrets it later (given the chance).
The other issue is that people who are truly suicidal will eventually kill themselves if that is their wish/need without the intervention of professionals.These suicidal people tend to remove themselves from public and secretly kill themselves: they do not want to be found, and they do want to succeed.
Someone who says that they are suicidal is asking for help. It is most important that they get the help that they need immediately, and they are then able to work through issues and problems in safety.
I think Bandler's definition of suicide being a permanent solution to a temporary problem is an indication of how we can't afford to get this wrong.

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