Hypnosis Vs. Religion

Does Religion exist anymore?

Before i joined the Hypnotic world of the mind, i was an absolute staunch believer in God and Religion, even had and still have a Network Site for all religions "All for God" and now as im delving deeper into the science of the human mind and hypnosis NLP etc. i tend to question, What is Real? is reality afterall completely plastic?

I am beginning to see hypnosis and NLP techniques being used EVERYWHERE from adverts, sales people, politicians, to even priests, pastors and religious leaders of almost every religion i know, i see it when i go to church, temple, mosque...

So what is your take on this?

Favorite

0 members favorited this

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Cat Archer on July 20, 2008 at 12:55am

My religious path, and indeed many religious paths, teach that some of the most effective ways to approach the Divine are through methods which alter consciousness. Different faiths do this different ways; prayer, meditation, trance, dance, drumming, NLP and Hypnosis, from a my own personal religious perspective, are simply two more "paths up the mountain" (to borrow from one of my favorite Buddhist parables.)

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Leo Gopal on July 20, 2008 at 1:08am

is not meditation a form of self hypnosis? and many others almost every "path" seems to have some hypnotic or NLP technique to it...

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Cat Archer on July 20, 2008 at 1:21am

precisely my point, although there are differences between meditation and hypnosis, so I would disagree that meditation is simply "a form of self hypnosis". There are similarities, and both can induce a state of trance, but there are nuances. Of course, looking at it only from the POV of a hypnotist/NLP practioner the conclusion is often that they're 'the same', but from the perspective of someone who has practiced meditation, there are differences in the "feel" of the trance. Indeed, there are differences in the "feel" of the trance with different types of meditation.

But my point was that most religions and spiritual paths, on both the aesthetic and the ecstatic ends of the religious spectrum use techniques which alter consciousness, which move between brain wave states, just as NLP and hypnosis does. They're not the same methodologies, but they often get similar or equivalent results, and that result, that change in consciousness, is what many religions define as religious experience.

This does not, IMO, make the religious experience any less valid... it simply makes it approachable from different paths.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ernest frost on July 20, 2008 at 3:50am

Reality is a cobstruct by the observer, (observer created) a construction through the 5 slits in the tower (senses). Every person's 5 senses creates a own 'map' of the reality out there. So, you are quite spot on when you ask? is reality plastic? With plastic I think you mean 'temporary' as opposed to cast in stone. WE can only perceive reality through our 'maps' (senses) and we distort, delete and generalise. Our maps change constantly as science progress and as we go through life we change our beliefs. That is why NLP states: The map is not the territory. or The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. My belief is that a lot of religions over the centuries have mistaken their maps with the reality. It is only maps, guidelines and it is a very personal and subjective map.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Anthony Jacquin on July 20, 2008 at 5:19am

Good for you for questioning. Treat yourself to a copy of The God Delusion by Dawkins and clear the remaining religio-fluff from your head.

Anthony

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Leo Gopal on July 23, 2008 at 12:29pm

I LIKE THIS!!! thanks Anthony... no fluff :P

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Bill McGettigan on July 25, 2008 at 2:32pm

Right on Anthony!
Religions and "God" in general exist in order to obfuscate and control your access to spirituality.
To understand how the spirit works read the accounts of shamanism. To understand the God delusion read about Billy Meier.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Bernie Nordquist on July 25, 2008 at 3:49pm

Of course we must believe in religion, it is all around us. The direct question is a believe in the omniificent creator of the universe, God. For myself, I do not. Most religions have a certain period of history and a tradition that evolved originally or was borrowed. Pagan religions such as witchcraft predates Christianity.

Bernie

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Matthew J. Powderly on July 26, 2008 at 8:20pm

I know exactly what you mean. I have felt much the same way. Religion can be explained logically within the bounds of the "scientific" universe. When you were young, you were like a little hypnotized whatever. Walking around taking in everything. Didn't you believe in Santa Claus, despite the scientific and logical impossibility? So too do little kids accept blindly that there is a God, that the toothfairy will change teeth into a dollar, that whatever, even before they can understand. (I actually remember asking my parents where God was, up near the altar, as if he were a person.)

I am a Catholic. A staunch Catholic and always have been. I still am, I think. It is a bit disconcerting learning that belief in religion can be explained by hypnotic like processes. Is this just another "tool" of God? It is equally disturbing learning that everything you see and hear is going into your head and affecting you. And that ads and politicians and priests are purposefully attempting to bypass your logic and thought to manipulate, or less strongly, persuade or convince you of something, whatever that be. I was even more appalled to learn the true roots of my religion, of the eastern messianic religions, judaism, its beginnings, the logical inconsistencies, the ridiculousness of passages. Learning that my religion isn't just whacked right down into history as divine intervention. That it has evolved from other memes and ideas throughout history. One may want to ask, why is my religion so different, so special, that it is apart from all of these other supposedly false religions?

Culture and religion have served purposes, there is no doubt, good and ill. If we are asking, what's best for our future. Who can really tell? What will happen will happen, but still, you are part of that and can have a say. When I look at religion, when I look at what it teaches, when I feel it working in my life, when I see it working in others, I am obliged to think a world with religion is better than a world without. Religion makes me happier, makes me more comfortable. Am I just hypnotized to believe that? Am I physiologically happier with religion, even if its false? I don't know, but I just believe it. It is said, that when a Catholic loses his religion, he loses all religion. Catholicism is amazingly thorough, when you study it in depth. I mean, you cannot disprove Catholicism, and it does make a lot of sense. Religion is not scientific though, that is, it is non-falsifiable (so far) and probably will be forever. Intellectually, that is, my scientific mind, is forced to reject God, as a non falsifiable claim, does that make God's existence false? No, but it makes it very very suspicious to an empirical skeptic like me. yet the rest of me says, yes, there is a God. Logically, God is necessary for a philosophic ultimate-objective morality. Logically, existence theory makes more sense than a God. Heck, logically, an existence theory with a God makes sense too.

Existence theory explains existence without the need for a God. It explains it as existence. Rules, philosophically, govern our universe, yet matter is existence is rules, they are essentially the same, that is. A mind game seems best to explain. suppose nothing existed, then there would be no rules, if there are no rules, nothing is not stopping something from coming from nothing. Nothing is stopping nothing. It's not stopping everything. Nothing is stopping something from coming from nothing. Everything exists, but so does nothing, and our universe is an infinitesimally small part of that everything. Rules are logical, there can be no rule that there is no rules, the rule that there is no rules can be superceded and contained. Everything and nothing. so we are. But this leaves it wide open. God could exist in our part of everything. The soul, heaven, who says?

Philosophically, God is really needed for an all-objective morality. If the world is governed ultimately by scientific laws (chaos theory),

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gilson Costa on July 27, 2008 at 1:02pm

When we´re young people tend to explain everything based on the asumption that we can´t undestand "complex" things. So they explain things in "simplified" form. So simple that in fact is a huge distortion. And they forgot that first as we grow up we´ll still believe in the same things they thaught us. And second, they forgot to tell us that is a simplification.

This leads to fanatic "true believers" or disapointment. Or we become crusaders on a holly war to defend a false idea, or we become more and more skeptic even about some basic facts of our world. In first case, is kind obvious that we must destroy "intelligence" and thinking in direct proportion to the "falseness" of the simplifications we learned. In the second, our disapointment lead us to doubt everything, even truth.

We´re told that human beings are guided by reason and logic and we tick by emotion. They told us that we learn by means of explanation, and we learn because we want to. We think we´re puritan gentlemen, when in fact we´re brilliant monkeys.

As so, we can notice trance states (not hipnosis) in many religions because we´re humans. Trance is the normal state of our mind. We can notice it in learning, love, relationship, politics. Every activity dealing with human beings, if done well, are done in trance. Religion included. And science too.

We learn science, as we learn everything: we trance in the knowledge. We open to the new (bypass critical factor) and we establish acceptable thinking (the new knowledge). We fall in love the same way: we open to the new, and establish that the other is our love.

The question is: the knowledge we acquire is true? Can we trust it? Be it religion, science, hipnosis, etc. we MUST make these quiestions, sorting out for good ones. "If we open the doors of perception the world would appear to us as it is: infinite". If we clean out our perception we would "see" everything on its real nature.

Including hipnosis that, for me, has become a NEW religion.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Bernie Nordquist on July 27, 2008 at 1:37pm

I am a little puzzled about any need for a relationship between religion and morality. Would this imply that I, as an atheist, am immoral? Absorb this thought for a moment. Because in my mind it does indicate progress in religious thinking. Imagine me making the statement,
"I am an atheist", three hundred years ago. What would have been the consequences? Well history tells us that I would most probably have been tortured to recant or executed. And today I am simply judged immoral. I consider that progress, don't you?
Just a thought!
Bernie

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mentat on July 28, 2008 at 1:04am

To not answer your question and just share some thoughts: I don't think anything disproves the existence of God. And yes, I certainly think God exists. Some of the most brilliant minds throughout history have thought God exists. Biologists tend to be the ones(I think) that don't believe in God. I can think of a few notable physicists that have believed in God. Einstein, Von Braun, Newton, etc. And there's a much larger list. Each of these people were brilliant.

I have read probably over 500 books on psychology(not all of the books but the important information). I have also studied biology. Nothing disproves God.

I know that was not entirely pertaining to your original post. But I wanted to share it.

Take care