Hypnosis Vs. Religion

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Permalink Reply by samir javed on June 18, 2011 at 9:33am

Published in Germany a few months after David Lewis’ The Man who Invented Hitler, Horstmann’s book treats the same topic, namely the astonishing personality change that immediately after the end of World War I came over the twenty-nine year old, previously unnoticed Corporal Adolph Hitler. For four years the morose loner had served with unhesitating dedication to soldierly duty on the western front without giving the slightest indication of leadership capabilities or of a thirst for power. He was, therefore, a man of a cast wholly different from that of the one bearing the same name whom we meet in histories of World War II. Pointing to essentially the same documents, both Lewis and Horstmann explain the metamorphosis in terms of the hypnosis used in the neurological center of Pasewalk by Professor Edmund Forster to treat the hysterical blindness that had befallen Corporal Hitler roughly three weeks before the end of the war. Lewis’ work, among other things a veritable eye-opener on developments in psychotherapeutic technique in the 19th and early 20th centuries, covers much more material than Horstmann’s and is more thoroughly researched, a circumstance that explains, for example, the wide differences between the two accounts of Edmund Forster’s visit to Paris in 1933: Lewis clearly had access to the better sources.

On three separate grounds Horstmann’s book has a value of its own. The first is the light it sheds on a question pertaining to Hitler’s rise to power that had remained more or less moot. It had been well known that General von Schleicher, Hitler’s predecessor as Chancellor, and von Schleicher’s close associate General von Bredow, both of whom were murdered in 1934 during the alleged Röhm-putsch, had had nothing whatever to do with Röhm or the SA; yet no convincing theory as to the real reason for their murder was ever able to gain currency. Horstmann shows that in the summer of 1932 at von Schleicher’s instigation Colonel von Bredow had seized medical records pertaining to the events of Pasewalk and containing Edmund Forster’s diagnosis of Corporal Hitler as a “psychopath with hysterical symptoms.” Word of this diagnosis must have gotten abroad, for later in the same year, a few months before Hitler was made Chancellor, General von Schleicher was urgently warned by a high-ranking friend that if Adolph Hitler came to power, and if he, von Schleicher, did not get rid of those documents, his life and the life of General von Bredow were lost. In point of fact, while General von Schleicher was an idealistic and politically minded man whom Hitler had good grounds to fear, von Bredow had no political ambitions at all. His murder was typical of the chilling brutality that characterized the Nazi movement right from the start and ultimately united the better part of the world against it. In both cases the murder was followed by teams of men ransacking their victim’s living quarters in search of papers.

The second ground is connected with what may seem the weakest point in the argument of both Lewis and Horstmann: the circumstance that the document most central to their common thesis is a chapter taken from a rather second-class novel. When Hitler came to power in 1933, he had the SS launch a vigorous campaign to destroy everything and everyone in any way connected with his treatment by Edmund Forster in November of 1918, first of all the documents. Anticipating their move, Forster, who understood perfectly the historical importance of his personal records of the case, made copies of them and drove to Paris, where he made contact with such exile authors as Joseph Roth, Alfred Döblin and Ernst Weiss. What happened to the other copies is not known, but it is known that one copy was left with Ernst Weiss. When Forster returned home several days later and was then gradually made to realize that the SS had him in their cross-hairs, he came to think that flight would be useless, and cheated them of his life. In the following years Ernst Weiss, destitute in Paris, made a last ditch survival effort by competing for a prize offered in the US for the best novel written by Germans in exile. His attempt, The Eyewitness, tells in the first person the life story of a psychologist. The heart of the book is a gripping chapter that recounts a therapeutic session in which the protagonist, who uses the technique of hypnosis in a place called P., cures a patient named A. H. of hysterical blindness. As the rest of the novel has serious literary deficiencies, Ernst Weiss was not awarded the prize he coveted. Unaware that an immigration visa and passage by ocean liner awaited him at the American Embassy, he took his life as German troops entered Paris in June of 1940. All the papers found in his apartment were destroyed, but the typescript of The Eyewitness had been sent to the US in 1939. After the war it found its way to Germany, where it was published in 1963. Of those who read it, none seems to have recognized the initials P. and A. H. or the story of the hysterical blindness. Ten years later, in 1973, US Naval Intelligence declassified a report on “Adolph Hitler’s Blindness” based on information supplied by a Dr. Karl Kroner, who had been a colleague of Edmund Forster at Pasewalk. Kroner stated that he had been present when the blind Corporal Adolph Hitler was admitted and placed in the care of Professor Forster. At that point, it could be documented that the protagonist of Ernst Weiss’ novel was, in fact, a historical person, namely Edmund Forster, that P. was Pasewalk and that his patient A. H. was another historical person. At this point, therefore, the incredible importance of The Eyewitness was waiting to be discovered. The one who put two and two together seems to have been Prof. Rudolph Binion, who, having once realized the facts of the matter, went behind the Iron Curtain to do research on Edmund Forster in Greifswald before writing a foreword to the English translation of Ernst Weiss’ novel, which appeared in 1977, presumably at his instigation. Chapter VIII of Horstmann’s book consists of the very dramatic chapter that makes up the heart of that novel. Horstmann then sets himself the task of taking that chapter as Michelangelo once took the breached slab of marble, and arriving by a series of removals at a text as close as possible to the case record Edmund Forster had turned over to the chapter’s author, much as the great Florentine once arrived at his statue of David. Hence, chapter IX of Horstmann’s book consists of highly plausible reflections by which the author himself crystallizes a certain number of principles that were to guide his undertaking, for example that unlike the chapter in the novel, the case record on which it was based may be presumed not to have contained literary or dramaturgical flourishes. In line with the same goal, chapter X consists of an expertise written by Frau Heidi Baitinger, a psychotherapist who specializes in the technique of hypnosis. In the sentences written by Ernst Weiss, who by training was a surgeon, Frau Baitinger perceives the unmistakable ruminations of a masterful colleague. To her trained eye the strategy applied by Edmund Forster was instantly transparent, and she explains it with great clarity. In the course of the war Forster had seen many cases of hysterically induced blindness. Men who could no longer take being on the front would go blind. Their blindness did not follow from an act of will, but rather from a partial loss of will. Professor Forster knew how to be overbearing, and his usual technique in such cases was simply to roar indignantly at his patient for abandoning his comrades in their hour of need. His success rate was astonishing. The usual pattern was that the patient, who suddenly could see again, would be overcome with gratitude. He had not enjoyed his blindness, nor had he had the slightest inkling that he himself was the cause of it. In the case of Corporal Hitler, who genuinely longed to be back at the front with his comrades, Forster understood immediately that his usual strategy could only be counter-productive and took a different tack. The session took place at night, in the dark, and consisted in genuine hypnosis. He hypnotized his patient telling him that his corneas had been burnt by the mustard gas, that as hypnosis goes by way of the eyes, he could not be hypnotized, that he would never see again, unless he had the kind of will that comes only once in a thousand years, unless he were like Jesus or Mohammed, who had wills stronger than nature. Then he lit a candle and held it before his patient’s eyes—which had not been burnt at all—and asked him what he saw. Dissatisfied with the vague reply, he charged him to do better. The patient saw then first the light, then his hands, and finally the rest. Hitler came away from that session knowing himself to be possessed of unconquerable will, to have been chosen by Providence to be the man of the millennium who by his will could triumph over the laws of nature. In April of 1939, an article appeared in Cosmopolitan reporting a statement made by Hitler about his days in Pasewalk: “And as I lay there, the realization came to me that I would liberate the German people and make Germany great.” The monster was born in Pasewalk. The tragedy of it all stems from the fact that Edmund Forster, unexpectedly released from military service one or two days later, suddenly found himself in a chaotic and threatening situation and never got a chance to free Corporal Hitler from his post-hypnotic suggestion.

Frau Baitinger’s expertise is undoubtedly one of the most valuable parts of Horstmann’s book. “Gladly do I confess,” he writes, “that Frau Baitinger’s comprehensive and wholly objective analysis is what gave me the courage to bring the complex topic “Hitler in Pasewalk” before the public.” (p. 139) The shortened version of the dramatic chapter of Ernst Weiss’ novel, Horstmann’s historiographic David, appears in his book as Appendix I.

The third ground reflects the fact that Herr Horstmann’s doctorate is in law. He raises the question of the influence of hypnosis on responsibility. To answer it he is content to quote a passage from an author named Roxin, a recognized authority on the theory of jurisprudence. Roxin’s unambiguous statement is that hypnosis or post-hypnotic suggestion has exactly no bearing whatever on the question of responsibility, that it is impossible for a person to commit a crime under hypnosis from which he would otherwise shrink. In her expertise Frau Baitinger raises the same question and gives convincing reasons for taking the same view. Hypnosis is a technique enabling the therapist to connect elements already present in the patient’s sub-conscious mind, which is a kind of memory. It does not enable the therapist to create new memories.

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on October 28, 2011 at 9:46am

I must review this interesting thread again before posting. Much to ponder here. ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Rader on October 29, 2011 at 8:14am

Leo, that which we call natural/wild hypnosis, has always been there, in the church, in the temple and in the mosque. Hypnosis, NLP, et al,  is mostly, IMHO, an organized concentration of methodologies that have been found over time that actually work in creating change in others.It is not that hypnosis, NLP, et al, are all that new, in fact all of it has been around since humanity has been around. Think about Satan's "reframe" in the Garden of Eden. "Did God really say....".

 

If a client wants to change (ie. they desire to stop smoking), then the appropriate methodology is used to provide that change-work. If someone wants to believe something in a sacred text, those same methodologies are used, as they've been used since the dawn of time. Repeat a suggestion over and over enough times and even a resistant client may subconsciously take that on that suggestion. Read the Bible over and over and you may just start to believe it. Provoke a client into an emotional response and they may provide you with a means of helping them address a phobia. Preach with all sorts of authoritative and emotional gusto and people in your congregation may come forward and beg God's mercy, believe in the power of prayer or actually get off their butts and start telling others about Jesus.

All the likes of Braid, Mesmer and Erickson did was figure out what works, throwing out what didn't work. All , Grinder and Bandler did was organize, codify and model the very same things. Nothing new was really created by any of them.

 

Does religion still exist? Sure, people still involve themselves in the day to day rituals tied to their beliefs. Is there a need for religion anymore? That can only be answered by "Faith". The question then becomes why do people still go through those day to day rituals? Some do it out of rote or tradition, others do it "just to be seen doing it", while still others do it out of devotion to God.

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on October 29, 2011 at 11:13am

I like this inquiry: "I wonder if religion could exist without hypnosis?" I would argue that it could exist, however I would also assert that religion cannot thrive without the ability to manipulate consciousness.  ;-)

Steve Andrade said:

Great topic.
Have you ever had, or heard of a client whose problem, when communicated, was poorly worded and after some communication back in forth, just by rewording the problem brought such an awareness to the problem that the solution could now be seen?

What if I were to reword the topic for a moment and ask, what is the relationship between Hypnosis and religion?

It was pointed out to me that religion is the best use of hypnosis around. Someone searching automatically follows the suggestions from the git go. Let’s start with the place of worship, (I almost wrote warship, I chuckled, but seriously…), they can create an altered state, there is an automatic association to the reverence of a sanctuary. Some have high ceilings, stained glass windows, a built in respect, and they even have their own words for the anchored trance, “holy grounds,” you walk in and sit down, remain quiet while the authority figure speaks. Uses metaphors and truisms or generalizations to get many yes’s from the congregation, orders the congregation…..I mean, suggests that giving money will benefit you spiritually…..and through the embedded suggestions along the way….it almost seems like it’s your own idea to give. And what about the singing, the words being repeated, (law of repetition), one might even think a slight form of brain washing. Then close your eyes together and repeat a prayer….speaking to a non physical deity, while making yourself feel humble……over load city…..and then, amen, lock in those suggestions, but they are only good for one week, can I put you down for the same time next week? It doesn’t work if you stop trying.

There was many a sermon where at the end…the tone changes, the talk slows, and the truisms are activated….sometimes there is soft music or singing and then there is a calling to come up front, first one then two, then like a stage hypnotist show where you rest the head of one on the other and the other so their own senses pick up the body language of the others. At this point you are totally convinced of what ever the message is…..all the anxiety or message units are allowed to build up to a focused point….and a suggestion of closing your eyes is taken by everyone, and the post hypnotic suggestions are re-enforced….you feel them emotionally and they are locked in with an unspoken guilt, as the post hypnotic embedded idea. And as hypnotherapist give suggestions that you’ll start to notice in the days to come and you will pick out signs that remind you of your new changes….maybe it’s a cloud pattern maybe in a dream……some religions do even better. They convince you that even if bad happens to you, if you have the faith of a mustard seed, then you will deserve…..and then the non biblical biggy: The Lord works in mysterious ways….can be a generalization that covers just about any situation.

Hypnosis vs. Religion?
Religion, like the map is not the territory thing in NLP, religion is a path to spirituality, or salvation, or what ever your goal is, heaven, bliss, nirvana. I would have to say that hypnosis is finely weaved into Religion.

I wonder if religion could exist without hypnosis?

If hypnosis can be a catalyst for religion or meditation lay the groundwork for communication with spirit……where’s the problem?

Please, the above assembly of words are just observations, I do hope that any limiting beliefs were set aside during the reading of this message…..I do believe myself in a higher source that we all draw from and that we are all connected.

And with this, I cannot comment on Hypnosis vs Religion

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on October 29, 2011 at 11:29am

Serve it up. I concur. Well done! :-)

And as you said not only religion promotes servitude, we have classic kingdoms and modern governments who embrace this notion along with present day economic systems, the military, educational institutions and so forth.

John Cleesattel said:

Just for my two cents: I believe that in order to be accurate, instead of saying hypnosis vs religion, we should acknowledge that hypnosis IS religion. As we have found from other discussions, this ranks in the "so what?" category.

Is there a God, or a Supreme Being, or beings? In my opinion, I think so. The very fact that we designed to be slaves, points to intelligent design in that area. Is there some argument to the concept that we were designed to be slaves?

Look at how we view serving: We all hope that we serve well, we call that helping, and job satisfaction. There are more "services" in the phone book than you can count. We serve our country, we serve the needy, we even serve dinner. Good Service is what we all hope we give, and get.

I could go on and on, and not even mention the whole giant hidden lifestyle of people who crave to literally be slaves in the classic sense of the word. To wear a collar and serve their masters. It is all wrapped around sex, but that is not the cake, it is the frosting.

I believe this was a recognized part of us, that was capitalize upon eons ago, via religion, of one sort or another. Even the term religion, is used to describe unquestioning servitude. Ministers and Priests or whatever label they are referred to by their order. are just servants of their church.

This capacity that we have, even if you consider the survival of the fittest theories, is contrary to the way we should have turned out.

Thus, my concept of intelligent design, and of a Creator. Who, by the way, told us all what his specific goal is, in two separate places in the christian bible.

I believe...I'll have a beer.
John

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on October 29, 2011 at 12:17pm

Brilliant awareness, Pete. Thanks for linking this together so eloquently.

Pete Nauman said:

About Jesus, Real name Emanuel
He was a Prodogy in his own realm. Whe he entered the studies he was sworn to an oath of secrecy. Then when he entered public life he was in violation of his oath by Teaching the secrets to the masses, The 12 tribes of Israel incl. For this the penalty is death. The society that taught him had no choice but to put him to death.
This society, was too arrogant to stand down and learn From him. He like Buddah had achieved communion with scource. He and Buddah were no longer subject to the hypnosis of the institutions. Hypnosis has its place in society and does some very amazing and positive things. Institutions like to use it to keep their sheep in line and keep them from thinking for themselves as times and circumstances change. Most are stuck in the 14th century.

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on October 29, 2011 at 12:34pm

Great reminders from our past live on.

Notes from video:

Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal. Opposite of courage in our society is conformity. People acting like everyone else never learn how to succeed. One succeeds because he knows where he is going. The successive people are doing what they want to do, i.e. those who are a doing a predetermined job purposely are successfui. We become what we think about. Yet, people who have things that are worthwhile don’t value them because they are taken for granted; they are free. Decide what you want. And go for it. Control your thinking. It’s the strangest secret in the world. All you need is a purpose and faith. Hold your goal before you, and everything will take care of itself. Make our time here an adventure.

===========================================

“As you believe so shall it be done unto you.” 

Source: Bible

Pete Nauman said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgUc7eLXs0s&feature=related

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on October 29, 2011 at 12:41pm

Worth repeating here...

GIL BOYNE said:

HYPNOSIS AND RELIGION

Hypnosis is a natural state of mind with special identifying characteristics. "Hypnosis is neither religious or irreligious, good or evil, helpful or harmful"! It simply opens the door to the path that leads directly to the "Inner Mind". If we change the name and call it "Spiritual Reverie", the same identifying characteristics are still present. This natural state of mind existed in mankind long before the word "hypnosis" was coined.

Every culture has it's own rituals (inductions into a trance state) and ceremonies which are spiritual in nature and operate to set aside the cognitive function. How this state of mind is used, abused or exalted is decided by humans, consciously or subconsciously. Is religious ecstasy to be labeled "hypnosis" ? We cannot identify all inner mind behaviors and phenomena as "Hypnosis"or even "trance".

The problem in mental health therapies is the need to label (diagnose) and then teach the client to live up (to) the diagnosis.

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on October 29, 2011 at 12:54pm

Excellent, Owen. Well said. ;-)

owen mcginty said:

I see "God" as being mans way of explaining that which he cannot explain, and a way to qualm his fears that death means the end. As time progresses, mankind learns more, and can explain more, religions evolve to survive, what was once considered divine truth becomes metaphor and is no longer taken literally as fact. People that question faith tend to have their questions interpreted as attacks and are generally not welcome or are invited politely to leave.

Religions all over the world survive and some grow due to the implementation of systems of indoctrination.

Yet have I to encounter a religion that prefers not to indoctrinate young children, in favour of leaving the child to grow up and consider evidence from all sides before deciding (or not) upon a religion.

If you hadn´t been born into a religion as a child, would you (as an adult) subscribe to any religion now? (rhetorical question).

 

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on October 29, 2011 at 1:02pm

Fascinating, Amy. I like your shared awareness. I feel better now. ;-)

Amy Tibbis said:

Have you ever read the book of Revelations? Ever wonder what the difference is between the selling of slaves and the selling of souls? Ever wonder why God says He will "seal" the 144,000 Israelites? Sealing is the method of protecting one's subconscious mind from being influence(d) by unauthorized hypnotists.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on October 30, 2011 at 10:27am

I use these 7 frames: Source - Force - Creators - Mankind - Animal - Plant - Mineral
Gods is plural from Elohim, and the Creators are not abstractions or impersonal forces . ;-)

John Maclean said:

Einstein did not believe in "God".

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein in Albert Einstein: The Human Side

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