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Stage hypnosis or just a sham?
Role playing theories suggest hypnosis is just social compliance on part of the subjects to carry out the wishes of the hypnotist. Displays of subjects appearing to see vivid hallucinations and of subjects perceiving drastic changes in temperature might seem very convincing, but are they real? In some more lustful and lewd shows specifically the ones targeting adults, some volunteers would even be seen humping frantically at their chair.
My question is... how much of stage hypnosis is just social compliance, the desire to play along?
Or is it that every single one of the volunteers on stage is experiencing full immersion sensory hallucinations which I understand to be one of the more difficult effects that can be achieved with hypnosis?
PG13 High School variation example - "look at the cute teletubbie! oh, I think it wants a hug." Boy age 17 proceeds to hug creature of God.
Is the subject really seeing a visual of a hallucinated moving, breathing, interacting object that he cannot distinguish from reality? Is he also experiencing the tactile sensations?
Another question; what's the difference between compliance to suggestion (pass the butter) and a hypnotic suggestion?
And one more thing; this post is not intended as an attack on stage hypnotists. Not even suggesting it's an illegitimate profession that makes a mockery of true hypnosis. The title's just intended for dramatic effect. Am interested in all opinions.
My question is... how much of stage hypnosis is just social compliance, the desire to play along?
Or is it that every single one of the volunteers on stage is experiencing full immersion sensory hallucinations which I understand to be one of the more difficult effects that can be achieved with hypnosis?
PG13 High School variation example - "look at the cute teletubbie! oh, I think it wants a hug." Boy age 17 proceeds to hug creature of God.
Is the subject really seeing a visual of a hallucinated moving, breathing, interacting object that he cannot distinguish from reality? Is he also experiencing the tactile sensations?
Another question; what's the difference between compliance to suggestion (pass the butter) and a hypnotic suggestion?
And one more thing; this post is not intended as an attack on stage hypnotists. Not even suggesting it's an illegitimate profession that makes a mockery of true hypnosis. The title's just intended for dramatic effect. Am interested in all opinions.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brian David Phillips on -
Honestly, the laundry list of Roleplay or Social Compliance theories of hypnosis . . . at least as exclusive explanations of hypnosis . . . have been disproved for some time. There is too much evidence of actual neurological state change from MRI scans for hypnosis to be explained away by the roleplay explanation. Yes, many Psych 101 textbooks still have roleplay as the major explanation of the phenomena of hypnosis and many Psych teachers are still pushing that nonsense . . . but . . . basic textbooks in the soft sciences tend to take a number of years to catch up to advances, particularly when they are being done in competing disciplines. The last time I got hit with the ol' "hypnosis is nothing but roleplay" BS it was a returning student who I had taught as an undergraduate who had gone to Canada for her graduate work and she went on how her psych books and professors were pushing the only roleplay explanation of hypnosis. Rather than tell her that her psych profs were obviously out of the loop as far as reality goes, I simply said "that's interesting, would you like to give hypnosis a go and see what it feels like?" and then had her hands stuck to various objects, sensory hallucinations, amnesia suggestions, and the whole gamut in a playful minisession. When I emerged her, I then asked if she was just pretending to please me or if she really felt all that stuff. She left my office convinced that hypnosis is real and that her psych books had only given part of the story . . . it's really hard to call hypnosis merely roleplay when you've spent the last twenty minutes with your arms stuck straight out in the air unbendable with you unable to pronounce your family name while telling folks you're given name is Tinkerbell.
As to stage hypnosis . . . most of the stage hypnotists I know and have worked with endeavor to have only hypnotized individuals on stage. If I suspect someone is faking, even if they are being funny, I will boot 'em as I don't want to take the risk that they'll ruin things later. I only work with folks who are genuinely hypnotized. Some folks will keep "friendly fakers" as they feel the show is about the entertainment first and the hypnosis is secondary. I prefer to boot the fakers, although I might keep someone who is in light trance and work at deepening them.
Anthony Galie does a wonderful demonstration of the whole veracity of the experience concept in his talks/shows . . . http://briandavidphillips.typepad.com/brian/2008/08/cant-find-his-m... . . . he will often offer money (real money) to participants to break the suggestion so if they're faking they're not likely to give up on that money (he routines this really nicely, I've seen others do it with less finess but Galie is fun).
All the best,
Brian
http://www.briandavidphillips.com
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Permalink Reply by Amanda Irvine on -
Well when I took my course I learned of something called Fait Accompli which is the concept that if you pretend to go along with the hypnotist in any way you will end up being in a hypnotic state.... The reality of the induvidual's experiances has to do with the depth that is obtained some people may actually see hear or feel while others may only believe that they see here and feel.......
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Permalink Reply by Reg Blackwood - The Quicknotist on -
If they're CHOOSING to comply then it's simply not hypnosis.
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Permalink Reply by bruce on -
Reg, with respect, you are misinformed. Almost all hypnosis begins with a choice to comply... at least that's my experience, and I think 99% of the members of this site would agree with me.
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Permalink Reply by don Rey Martinez on -
I must admit that for some subjects is just that! they will play the roll with conscious awareness of what they are doing and if you interview them they will say they played along and feel they could have said no to the suggestion, but it was easier to comply.
As stage hypnotists we are looking for somnabulistic subjects.
Once we find them, If you give them a roll, they will transform into it.
Every stage hypnotist has a story to tell about something so amazing that defies any explanation. Something as easy as stoping a bleeding or as complicated as creating a blister with imaginary fire. If you want to see amazing hypnosurgery videos check my page http://www.elrey.tk
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Permalink Reply by Reg Blackwood - The Quicknotist on
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My brief post was my answer to both questions:
"My question is... how much of stage hypnosis is just social compliance, the desire to play along?"
"Another question; what's the difference between compliance to suggestion (pass the butter) and a hypnotic suggestion?"
The poster was "interested in all opinions" so what's yours Bruce?
As a hypnotist, in my opinion, it is essential to know the difference between someone who is choosing to comply with a suggestion and someone who is genuinely hypnotised.
It's sad that you chose to interpret my answer the way you did.
I'm prepared to concede that I'm not as well informed as you and 99% of the members of this site but I do know that beginning a reply "with respect" doesn't necessarily make it a respectful reply.
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Permalink Reply by bruce on
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Hi Reg,
The point I was making was that in, general one of the first steps in hypnosis is getting the client/subject's agreement to comply... The post sort of came out in a tone that I usually try to avoid (an off day I guess). I also don't think I responded to the point you were actually making, so on both counts, please accept my apologies.
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Permalink Reply by Michelle Albright, C.H. on -
If hypnosis was merely the subject satisfying the wishes of the hypnotist, then how could the effectiveness of pain management through the use of hypnosis be explained?
Chances are that "every single one of the volunteers on stage" is not experiencing full immersion sensory hallucinations. The ones that are, are easy to spot. They are the individuals that the hypnotist uses for demonstrations.
The difference between compliance to suggestion (pass the butter) and a hypnotic suggestion is that with the hypnotic suggestion, the subject is the only one who can see the butter.
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
It seems to me that there is no better teacher than experience.
Until you experience hypnosis yourself, you will question its authenticity, no matter how many studies and books and blogs you read. Volunteer as a subject at a stage show. Or approach a stage hypnotist and ask him/her how does that work? can you show me?
There is no better convincer in the existance of hypnosis than having your butt stuck to your chair on stage. :) Have someone record it in case you forget that you volunteered.
Better yet, take a hypnosis class in person. Any good instructor will give lots of demonstrations so you can see it up-close.
Enjoy!
~Michelle
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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on -
As people discuss the theory of stage hypnosis, and what they expect, I am often asked if "everyone was in trance". Reality is, if you have a group of people on stage for 90 minutes, most of them will cycle from trance-deep trance-no trance-light trance-deep trance through the show. And not all of them will enter these stages of trance depth at the same time in a show. So at any given time, you may have someone in deep trance, while someone else is clearly not in trance, but a re-induction fixes that. It really isn't as simple as "is it role-playing?" or "social pressure". I am one who will keep a friendly faker, becasue as a previous poster mentioned, this is one way to enter trance and they can become the star by the end, and really in deep trance.
In a show, for entertainment, entertainment is paramount to trance depth, and if people are having fun and funny, why not keep them? Sometimes it is fun to watch someone onstage who is NOT in deep trance react to others, only to find that they enter deep trance in a moment and do the same thing they were just shocked by...
I won't throw tha baby out with the bathwater. Role playing DOES occur onstage. But so what? It isn't all the subjects, and it can work for entertainment, and it is perfectly natural for different people do cycle through many stages of trance depth in a show.
And, even with 10 people onstage, 1-3 of them ARE going to be in a deep hypnotic state and these are the stars anyway... What the est of them are doing onstage often becomes less important as these folks emerge as the stars...
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Permalink Reply by John Cerbone - The Trance-Master on -
Most hypnotic Inductions involve an individual following the guidance of the hypnotist, into their best levels of relaxation.
In any decent and lengthy hypnosis stage show, hypnotic depth states are going to vary from moments to moment and from individual to individual.
Here's another way to look at this perhaps. In the Aron's six stage Hypnotic depth testing scale, most clinicians are taught that individuals can be a stage one to a stage six subject. Many clinical trainers elude to or even teach their students the hypnotic subject's hypnotic depth state is static, they are what they are and they stay as deep as they go. Perhaps over time with additional training and individual can learn in future sessions or through the use of Self-Hypnosis to go into a deeper level of trance. I will say here that after many years of experience hosting sessions and having hypnotized tens of thousands of people, I have seen trance depth states vary in the course of the session as well as in the course of a comedy hypnosis stage show.
After enough years of experience conducting clinical sessions I would imagine most of us would agree the subjects. state can vary even within the comfort of an office and a recliner chair.
The same thing occurs with a greater variant and more often during a comedy hypnosis stage show. Based upon the theory of mine, I have trained my students to look for when inducing a trance, or in order to roughly gauge trance depth, a for evidence of the six stages of the REM state. The six stages of the REM state do to a greater or lesser extent, based upon my experience, have a correlation to the Aron's six stages of hypnotic depth; in the first three stages of REM, the closed eyelids tend to flutter up and down; in the latter three stages, the eyes themselves move left and right back and forth. So, when I'm hosting a private session, I know the client is far enough into trance when I start to see eyelid flutter begin. followed by back and forth eye movement under the eyelids. When the REM state has occurred, they are in a deeper level of trance, and are experiencing the equivalent of hypnotic dreaming, which means you are in direct contact with their subconscious mind. This is generally where time distortion occurs, and your greatest potential affect for improvement in their lives impacts and become sustainable. In a stage show, what I am looking for is eyelid flutter beginning and eye movement under the eyelids. Since, for a great many in my show, there is a wide variant from barely hypnotized at all, to a stage six level of hypnotic depth where they are hallucinating. I have found that the best way to keep track of who's actually responding is to take a look at their eyes while I have just Reinduced. I have seen a great many times were individuals would seemingly be gabbing to the person next to them perfectly conscious and fully lucid, and when I shouted Sleep! -- they then dropped down like a rag doll into an extremely deep REM state and were some of the deepest hypnotized individuals and best responding superstars on my stage.
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Permalink Reply by John Cerbone - The Trance-Master on
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One more point regarding Stage Hypnotism historically.
As clinical hypnosis has historically risen, fallen and risen once again, it was the Stage Hypnotists that kept the profession alive. This is not my opinion, Its historical fact. The Aron's six stage depth scale can actually be seen from the perspective of being a series of Hypnotic Demonstrational tests taken from stage, and switched to a clinical applications for gauging trance depth.
I bring up this point because I have attended hypnosis chapter meetings in various places, where clinically trained hypnotists had no idea regarding the history of their profession, and based on the words of a few trainers in various locales, were attempting to beat up the practice of stage show hypnotism. Without stage show hypnotism, much of what is done in clinical practice, would not be what it is today. Without practicing stage hypnotists, keeping the art and practice of hypnosis alive, these techniques and methods would very likely have been lost to history.
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Permalink Reply by Reg Blackwood - The Quicknotist on
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No problem Bruce :)
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