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A lump of coal or a wonderful gift?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34584011/?GT1=43001 : "Senate Democrats passed a landmark health care bill in a climactic Christmas Eve vote that could define President Barack Obama's legacy and usher in near-universal medical coverage for the first time in the country's history.
It was the Senate's first Christmas Eve vote since 1895, when the matter at hand was a military affairs bill concerning employment of former Confederate officers, according to the Senate Historical Office.
The House passed its own measure in November. The White House and Congress have now come further toward the goal of a comprehensive overhaul of the nation's health care system than any of their predecessors.
The legislation would ban the insurance industry from denying benefits or charging higher premiums on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions. The Congressional Budget Office predicts the bill will reduce deficits by $130 billion over the next 10 years, an estimate that assumes lawmakers carry through on hundreds of billions of dollars in planned cuts to insurance companies and doctors, hospitals and others who treat Medicare patients.
For the first time, the government would require nearly every American to carry insurance, and subsidies would be provided to help low-income people to do so. Employers would be induced to cover their employees through a combination of tax credits and penalties. The legislation costs nearly $1 trillion over 10 years and is paid for by a combination of taxes, fees and cuts to Medicare."
From http://www.naturalnews.com/027124_health_health_insurance_America.html
"There's never enough money to pay for a nation full of sick people
The current health care disaster in America is not simply a problem of people refusing to buy health insurance; it's an issue of people not being able to afford to buy health insurance. When the annual insurance premium for a family of four is something above $13,000, that's a terrible financial burden that many Americans simply can't afford to pay -- especially when so many people have lost their jobs due to the faltering economy.
The brutal facts of the matter are inescapable: The American people are too broke to buy their own health insurance, and the American government is too broke to buy it for them. The whole nation is going bankrupt over runaway health care costs. And why? I hate to invoke the "I told you so" phrase in a crisis like this, but the reasons for all this have been apparent for many years, and we've been regularly reporting them on NaturalNews: Our national "health care" system is really a "sick care" system that pushes deadly chemicals and medically-unjustified surgical procedures instead of teaching people how to stay well.
As long as junk food companies and pharmaceutical companies are allowed to run advertisements on television, and as long as the FDA and FTC continue their campaigns of censorship against nutritional cures and natural remedies, we will always have a health care crisis. You know why? Because no nation in the world can afford to foot the bill for a country full of sick people."
And how will this impact client's disposable income for services such as ours? Will more Americans resign themselves to the "sick care" system when it is "provided for all" and quit making any attempts at being responsible for their own health? Will a potential market of scofflaws surface, needing us to assuage their fears of government fines and possible jail time for refusing to buy health insurance? How will it all turn out?!
It was the Senate's first Christmas Eve vote since 1895, when the matter at hand was a military affairs bill concerning employment of former Confederate officers, according to the Senate Historical Office.
The House passed its own measure in November. The White House and Congress have now come further toward the goal of a comprehensive overhaul of the nation's health care system than any of their predecessors.
The legislation would ban the insurance industry from denying benefits or charging higher premiums on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions. The Congressional Budget Office predicts the bill will reduce deficits by $130 billion over the next 10 years, an estimate that assumes lawmakers carry through on hundreds of billions of dollars in planned cuts to insurance companies and doctors, hospitals and others who treat Medicare patients.
For the first time, the government would require nearly every American to carry insurance, and subsidies would be provided to help low-income people to do so. Employers would be induced to cover their employees through a combination of tax credits and penalties. The legislation costs nearly $1 trillion over 10 years and is paid for by a combination of taxes, fees and cuts to Medicare."
From http://www.naturalnews.com/027124_health_health_insurance_America.html
"There's never enough money to pay for a nation full of sick people
The current health care disaster in America is not simply a problem of people refusing to buy health insurance; it's an issue of people not being able to afford to buy health insurance. When the annual insurance premium for a family of four is something above $13,000, that's a terrible financial burden that many Americans simply can't afford to pay -- especially when so many people have lost their jobs due to the faltering economy.
The brutal facts of the matter are inescapable: The American people are too broke to buy their own health insurance, and the American government is too broke to buy it for them. The whole nation is going bankrupt over runaway health care costs. And why? I hate to invoke the "I told you so" phrase in a crisis like this, but the reasons for all this have been apparent for many years, and we've been regularly reporting them on NaturalNews: Our national "health care" system is really a "sick care" system that pushes deadly chemicals and medically-unjustified surgical procedures instead of teaching people how to stay well.
As long as junk food companies and pharmaceutical companies are allowed to run advertisements on television, and as long as the FDA and FTC continue their campaigns of censorship against nutritional cures and natural remedies, we will always have a health care crisis. You know why? Because no nation in the world can afford to foot the bill for a country full of sick people."
And how will this impact client's disposable income for services such as ours? Will more Americans resign themselves to the "sick care" system when it is "provided for all" and quit making any attempts at being responsible for their own health? Will a potential market of scofflaws surface, needing us to assuage their fears of government fines and possible jail time for refusing to buy health insurance? How will it all turn out?!
Tags: debt, government, health, insurance, obama, politics, u.s.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on
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To make this into a personal analogy, Congress just reached into my pocket, pulled out a maxed-out credit card, bought me a trillion-dollar "gift" I didn't ask for and don't want (with the goal of destroying something I'm happy with, can afford and do want). And they're going to make me pay for it anyway.
They're giving this "gift" by printing money out of thin air, backed by Treasury bills they hope to sell to our largest creditor, communist China. Good luck with that. Last week the Bank of China announced that the world (not just China, but the world) is running out of money to buy U.S. debt.
The current national debt is 12.1 TRILLION dollars. At this moment, every American is responsible for over $44,000 of the national debt.
It's unsustainable, and, in my view, immoral.
I'm sorry to say it, but there's no such thing as a free lunch or free insurance or free healthcare, and there is no Santa Claus.
What happens when China calls the note?
Kathleen
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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on -
December 17, 2009
Senate Unveils CompromiseCare
Details of Healthcare Plan Revealed
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report) - The United States Senate today unveiled details of its health care plan, tentatively called CompromiseCareTM:
Under CompromiseCareTM, people with no coverage will be allowed to keep their current plan.
Medicare will be extended to 55-year-olds as soon as they turn 65.
You will have access to cheap Canadian drugs if you live in Canada.
States whose names contain vowels will be allowed to opt out of the plan.
You get to choose which doctor you cannot afford to see.
You will not have to be pre-certified to qualify for cremation.
A patient will be considered "pre-existing" if he or she already exists.
You'll be free to choose between medications and heating fuel.
You will have access to natural remedies, such as death.
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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on
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Kathleen,
Sometime this year, we taxpayers will again receive an Economic Stimulus payment. This is a very exciting program. I'll explain it using the Q and A format:
Q. What is an Economic Stimulus payment?
A. It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.
Q. Where will the government get this money?
A. From taxpayers.
Q.. So the government is giving me back my own money?
A. Only a smidgen.
Q. What is the purpose of this payment?
A. The plan is for you to use the money to purchase a high-definition TV set, thus stimulating the economy.
Q. But isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?
A. Shut up.
Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the US economy by spending your stimulus check wisely:
• If you spend the stimulus money at Wal-Mart, the money will go to China .
• If you spend it on gasoline, your money will go to the Arabs.
• If you purchase a computer, it will go to India .
• If you purchase fruit and vegetables, it will go to Mexico , Honduras and Guatemala .
• If you buy a car, it will go to Japan or Korea .
• If you purchase useless stuff, it will go to Taiwan .
• If you pay your credit cards off, or buy stock, it will go to management bonuses and they will hide it offshore.
Instead, keep the money in America by:
1. spending it at yard sales, or
2. going to ball games, or
3. spending it on prostitutes, or
4. domestic beer or
5. tattoos.
(These are the only American businesses still operating in the US .)
Recommendation:
Go to a ball game with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a yard sale and drink beer all day.
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Kathleen Hanover said:To make this into a personal analogy, Congress just reached into my pocket, pulled out a maxed-out credit card, bought me a trillion-dollar "gift" I didn't ask for and don't want (with the goal of destroying something I'm happy with, can afford and do want). And they're going to make me pay for it anyway.
They're giving this "gift" by printing money out of thin air, backed by Treasury bills they hope to sell to our largest creditor, communist China. Good luck with that. Last week the Bank of China announced that the world (not just China, but the world) is running out of money to buy U.S. debt.
The current national debt is 12.1 TRILLION dollars. At this moment, every American is responsible for over $44,000 of the national debt.
It's unsustainable, and, in my view, immoral.
I'm sorry to say it, but there's no such thing as a free lunch or free insurance or free healthcare, and there is no Santa Claus.
What happens when China calls the note?
Kathleen
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Permalink Reply by Don on -
If we were the only industrialized nation on the face of the Earth, then these objections would make perfect sense. But we're not -- and the other developed countries in the world are doing just fine.
So what's the difference? Unlike our more fortunate brethren overseas, we're in the stranglehold of lobbyists who know how to frighten and confuse everyone to death, because they have billions invested in the status quo. Would foreigners be willing to trade what they have in Sweden or in Spain for the disgusting mess that we're in? No way, Jose!
Where does the current healthcare legislation enter the picture? To quote what Winston Churchill said in a diffrent context, "This is not the end. This is not the beginning of the end. It is, however, the end of the beginning." (And look how hard we had to fight to get even this much!)
Don
www.hyperempiria.com
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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on
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Don,
Well, there are two sides to every coin. I lived in Holland for 31 years, and they have a truly fabulous national health care system!
My wife and I paid something like $120 a month together for all-inclusive coverage (including pharmaceutical AND dental!).
However (and here's the rub!), we ALSO paid upwards of $7 a gallon for gas, a 100% "luxury" tax on EVERYTHING that was imported (that is not a typo), an extra 19% "value added tax" on everything we bought (that is not a typo either), and our income tax was approximately DOUBLE what it is here in America.
Just one example: the car I bought here for $29,000 would have cost me $58,000 in Holland!
Sweden is, if anything, even WORSE taxwise!
I DESPISE lobbyists and the shady deals they cut with our greedy, corrupt and venal politicians (whom I also despise), but when it comes to health care- there simply is no such thing as a "free lunch". They have us by the cojones one way or the other.
My wife and I currently pay the disgraceful sum of $13,900 for a lousy Horizon HMO- which is beyond outrageous (and they're permitted to raise that by 15% every year- which means that next year we'll be paying almost $16,000!); but if you calculate how much more we were forced to pay in Holland in outrageous taxes, then we weren't really that much better off over there.
Sigh...
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Don Gibbons, Ph.D. said:If we were the only industrialized nation on the face of the Earth, then these objections would make perfect sense. But we're not -- and the other developed countries in the world are doing just fine.
So what's the difference? Unlike our more fortunate brethren overseas, we're in the stranglehold of lobbyists who know how to frighten and confuse everyone to death, because they have billions invested in the status quo. Would foreigners be willing to trade what they have in Sweden or in Spain for the disgusting mess that we're in? No way, Jose! Where does the current healthcare legislation enter the picture? To quote what Winston Churchill said in a diffrent context, "This is not the end. This is not the beginning of the end. It is, however, the end of the beginning." (And look how hard we had to fight to get even this much!)
Don
www.hyperempiria.com
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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on -
Don -
Nobody with a straight face can say this is "extending coverage to 30 Million people". Perhaps if there was a single payor system or a public option once could claim that with a straight face, but this is just a land grab by the feds, and the insurance companies who now have the threat of force to sell useless products, hospitalization policies that pay nothing and ram it up the collective a** of the average American. There is nothing moral about under the threat of jail (unpaid tax pentalies for not having coverage is the threat of jail.) This bill is a dream come true for the lobbyists and insurance companies who crafted it. This bill is unconstitutional, immoral and a threat to the very ideas of this nation. Ben Nelson with a straight face says he didn't sell out? Liberman? All liars and sellouts.
You said "the mess we are in"? What mess are you in Don? Do you not have insurance or Medicare? I bet you do. You mean the mess you HEAR that we are in. I have traveled all over the globe, we still have the best medical system in the world, and it is a big fat LIE to claim we don't. We are better than Canada, the UK and everywhere else on the globe. Better than Sweden. Better than everyones. Better than Mexico, better than China, better than the Phillippines, better than Argentina. Better than EVERYWHERE.
Sure it has problems. When you say "the mess we are in" do you mean things are unequal? That some have more than others? No government will ever change that. Jesus told us the poor will always be with us - NO MATTER WHAT HARRY RIED, NANCY PELOSI AND OBAMA tell us and no matter how much of other peoples wealth they "spread around"
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Hi Don,
With due respect, people under socialized medical systems have higher mortality rates, higher taxes, less access to care, less access to drugs, less drug and technology innovation, and less personal freedom. I would hardly call those folks "more fortunate."
I pay $140 a month for health insurance. Last Friday, I ended up in the emergency room and had to get a CAT scan. My wait time for a CAT scan was about 40 minutes. Non-emergency wait time would have been within 1 day.
In Canada, the wait time for a CAT scan is 4.6 weeks, according to a story published this week.
Canada also lags behind much of the world in its adoption of and use of high-tech diagnostic equipment -- another result of managing costs through budgets set by government officials. Canada ranks 19th out of 28 countries for CT Scanners per million people and 14th out of 25 on MRI Scanners, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). The result? It takes 4.6 weeks to get a CT scan and 8.9 weeks for an MRI.
That's why hospitals in border cities like Buffalo advertise no-wait medical imaging services to Canadians. That's why the doctor's office waiting rooms in my parents' Florida neighborhood are full of Canadian snowbirds. They come to Florida in the fall to get away from the snow and the medical waiting lists.
After the federal government takes over our healthcare delivery system (and with it, 1/6th of the U.S. economy), where are the Canadians going to go for care? WE going to go for care?
There is no Santa Claus. There is no free lunch. You cannot cannot magically add 50 million new consumers of "free" medical care to the existing system without rationing. It's a cruel joke to tell people they're going to get "free" care, and it's immoral to shake down other people to get the money to pay for it. It's even more immoral to steal the futures of the next three generations of Americans by burying them in debt to fund this unsustainable behemoth.
In my totally not humble opinion.
Kathleen Hanover
"The Pretty Goodest Public Relations,
Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet"
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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on -
Hi Kathleen,
Amen to what you said... and Soul, you are funny, just for what your recommendation:
Go to a ball game with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a yard sale and drink beer all day.
Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on
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Kathleen we already HAVE socialized medicine in the USA. I live in Oklahoma, it is through the BIA and offered in the Indian Hosptials. If you thought the VA sucked, you should see these dumps.
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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on
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Yes, right on bro!
I suggest that you start by sending all your money to me, and I will dispose of it for you in a timely fashion.
Saul (soon-to-be-appointed Obama's new "money-abolishing Czar")
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
edington said:abolish money
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Permalink Reply by Kent Fullarton on
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If the bastards didn't know what they were doing was wrong, they would be voting during the dinner hour. On a slow news day. For some it is more important to be a good democrat than it is to be a good American.
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on -
Kathleen ... what I want to know is where you were able to find health coverage for $140 per month. I pay $650 per month for HMO coverage just for myself, and that is with deductibles when you use the coverage ... my wife presently has insurance through her employer, otherwise we would be paying upwards of $1,400 per month just for the two of us. And with the HMO, they won't pay for anything outside your provider coverage area. I could not even imagine what a family with children in the home would have to pay.
Kathleen Hanover said:Hi Don,
With due respect, people under socialized medical systems have higher mortality rates, higher taxes, less access to care, less access to drugs, less drug and technology innovation, and less personal freedom. I would hardly call those folks "more fortunate."
I pay $140 a month for health insurance. Last Friday, I ended up in the emergency room and had to get a CAT scan. My wait time for a CAT scan was about 40 minutes. Non-emergency wait time would have been within 1 day.
In Canada, the wait time for a CAT scan is 4.6 weeks, according to a story published this week.Canada also lags behind much of the world in its adoption of and use of high-tech diagnostic equipment -- another result of managing costs through budgets set by government officials. Canada ranks 19th out of 28 countries for CT Scanners per million people and 14th out of 25 on MRI Scanners, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). The result? It takes 4.6 weeks to get a CT scan and 8.9 weeks for an MRI.
That's why hospitals in border cities like Buffalo advertise no-wait medical imaging services to Canadians. That's why the doctor's office waiting rooms in my parents' Florida neighborhood are full of Canadian snowbirds. They come to Florida in the fall to get away from the snow and the medical waiting lists.
After the federal government takes over our healthcare delivery system (and with it, 1/6th of the U.S. economy), where are the Canadians going to go for care? WE going to go for care?
There is no Santa Claus. There is no free lunch. You cannot cannot magically add 50 million new consumers of "free" medical care to the existing system without rationing. It's a cruel joke to tell people they're going to get "free" care, and it's immoral to shake down other people to get the money to pay for it. It's even more immoral to steal the futures of the next three generations of Americans by burying them in debt to fund this unsustainable behemoth.
In my totally not humble opinion.
Kathleen Hanover
"The Pretty Goodest Public Relations,
Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet"
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