About Forgiveness therapy with bad management

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Permalink Reply by Glen Hoyle on December 2, 2008 at 3:33pm

It sounds to me, like what happened is what needed to happen at that time, to cathart some of the anger. and it is a step toward the point where he will be more ready to forgive, if that is what he chooses to do.

But not everybody buys the forgiveness angle. It can take a lot of explaining even to someone who is open to that.

For him, it may be more appropriate to express and discharge the hurt angry feelings in a safe environment, and that may be all he is wanting or needing, to get the level of healing that is right for him at this stage.

you simply can't force forgiveness down peoples throat, it has to come from their sincere desire to do so, in the belief that it will be useful.

Hope this is to some degree helpful

Glen

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Permalink Reply by Kyle on December 2, 2008 at 5:03pm

Thank you for your answer, Glen...
That helped me on other view from only forgiveness.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Haifleigh on December 3, 2008 at 5:27pm

Kyle,
Something to think about:

Namaste,
(with reverence to you)
(love, integrity, wisdom, and peace)

Michael

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Permalink Reply by Kyle on December 5, 2008 at 12:43am

Yes. Anger is a kind of energy that it comes from ourselves like love.
What the person knows that he is angry is very important.
And taking care of that anger can make the anger be transformed understanding and compassion.
I could think about forgiveness more deeply
Thank you michael.

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Permalink Reply by Rich Park on December 5, 2008 at 10:23am

Good Morning:

It sounds like you didn't get to the ISE before you conducted your forgiveness.
You mentioned nothing about having your client forgive himself for caring these negative thoughts, thus letting go of the thought from his subconscious.

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Permalink Reply by Kyle on December 5, 2008 at 9:02pm

Thank you for replying, Rich...
Yes, you're right. Usually I go to I.S.E for knowing, understanding, perceiving.
But He knew that situation and my client didn't want to regress at that situation with somewon who hurt him.
So. I decided to process above.

I wondered whether I make my client understand "forgiveness" or just getting rid of him.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Andrade on December 6, 2008 at 12:44am

Hello Kyle,

Thank you for asking for opinions.
This is interesting for me and again, thank you for an opportunity to broaden my understanding.

I’m going to assume that the presenting issue here is regarding a child and it is the parents who are coming to you to help their child to deal with some pain caused by other people in their child’s life.

I’m not familiar with the chair therapy process and I’m sure there have been some good results with it, if it is something that is taught as a healing practice.

Now here’s my opinion or opinions.

I agree with Richard Bandler about venting…..that venting just teaches someone how to get good at venting and is not a healing process. Yes it feels good after someone vents but I believe that the whole process that is causing pain that requires the venting in the first place, just starts to build up again immediately if healing did not take place and the venting process cycle starts all over again.

In fact, I see venting as re-enforcing the behavior that caused it in the first place because venting itself is not healing.

I believe giving energy to negativity breeds more negativity, maybe the chair therapy has some affect on the presenting issue, but the negative energy used to change one situation may resurface in another or create another negative issue.

I’m a big believer in acceptance of what has already happened and then to start a positive process of changing how a person perceives that which is bothering or bringing suffering to them.

I believe that it all comes from within, how we feel and even our own positive solutions to our own problems…and that no one hurts anyone, we perceive things as hurting or helping based on our understanding of how things are.

Bringing awareness to other ways of viewing a situation, coupled with a desire for change has a tendency to open doors that weren’t even there before broadening one’s view…….and this in itself can start a healing process.

In the video that was posted above on this discussion, the guy talks about mindfulness, which I believe is another term for being present or living in the moment. I am a big believer in living in the present moment, where there is no pain or stress or worry, but it is not always easy to have others share that thought without having them use their imagination and walk them through some examples, some people’s eyes open wide and see something new, and others see no hope in that theory at all.

I am a firm believer in asking the client to describe, using their imagination, how they would like to see the outcome from the same situation and have them word it in the positive, on what they want it to be and not what they don’t want it to be. This gives me the positive direction to build from.

And I would work with them to change the behavior that is being triggered, since that behavior is not working for them.

As for forgiveness….as crazy as this may sound, I don’t believe in forgiveness.

I believe that if intention is good, there is no need for forgiveness and if the intention is not good, then the action that was taken, was the only and the best action that, that person knows, and if it is the best they know, (and this doesn’t mean you see it as the best), then there is no reason for forgiveness. Of course one could say, “but they hurt me,” and I say that no can hurt anyone, hurting is a label that we apply to an action, we choose what we want to label things as and many times there are secondary reasons why we label what we label.

I also believe that everyone always does the best we can and if it is the best that a person can do and the only action that that person has available to themselves…….then forgiveness for someone doing their best makes no sense to me.

Like I said, I believe that everyone is always doing the best they can because if they could do better, they would, why wouldn’t they? Example, this is the best I can do at this given time in life, if I could do better, I would.

And if you were to ask yourself, could I have done anything better, why didn’t I? The answer I have in my head is, under any given circumstances, what we do is always the best we can.

But people say things like, “but I know so and so, and I’ve seen them do better, I know they can do better.” I say, but under the circumstances present….this is the best actions that were possible, circumstances are always changing, and I believe we change how we react with circumstances.

Example, if I want someone to do what I think is their best, I’m going to create circumstances that encourage a response I am looking for, other wise, I get what ever the existing circumstances warrant, (maybe this person has had the worst day in their life, what their actions on this day will be, will be different than what they would be on a good day), a good example is to offer someone a whole bunch of money to do something for you, you can even watch how they change by offering more and more money…..or if I were to say to someone, if you do this for me, I will do this for you…..(I believe the circumstances determine specific responses).

Anyway……

And lastly, if I did believe in forgiveness, I would think that all forgiveness could only be self forgiveness only, and that would be to forgive oneself for responding the way they did and holding on to negative energy……but as I said before, because I believe that everyone is always doing the best they can, then there is no reason to even forgive one self.

On the other hand, if a client believes that forgiveness is their positive answer and can produce positive change, then I will build from the direction they have pointed out when they described their ideal outcome and forgiveness will be part of their healing process, just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean it can't be the best solution for someone else.

I don’t believe that negative energy heals negative energy, and as in the video above…he says that when there is negative energy we need to bring positive energy to balance it or neutralize it.

I thank you for allowing me to voice my opinions.

Do enjoy life,
Steve

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Permalink Reply by Bob Brenner on December 7, 2008 at 3:48am

Anger is among the most destructive of all emotions. When a person carries anger the only person that is hurt by that anger is the person carrying it.

Forgiveness has nothing to do with condoning an act. It is a matter of understanding the reality of what was going on when the anger first occurred. In our office who utilize two forms of forgiveness. The first one is a direct form such as a chair or deathbed technique. The second form is more of a general forgiveness used to forgive those who have hurt us over time. We like to use the gray room for this.

The most important part of any forgiveness technique is the explanation of what emotional forgiveness means. Everyone understands what the word “forgiveness” means but rarely do they understand what emotional forgiveness is. Without a clients basic understanding of both forms of forgiveness change will rarely be achieved.

As far as whether one believes or disbelieves in forgiveness is a matter of choice. We each use the tools that work best for us and our clients. In our office we have had a great deal of success working with forgiveness techniques to help our clients achieve their goals.

Bob Brenner
www.UnlockingMinds.com

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