Age Regression Question

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Permalink Reply by Craig Homonnay on November 28, 2009 at 3:18pm

Hi Sue
There are many different ways to do AR some are very gentle (my prefered method )
With out meeting your client it is hard to really give you advice on where to go from here .....I usually will talk to them about how people use food to distract from feelings they dont like ...and how the feeling returns when they stop distracting ...so then they eat again ....to distract from this feeling ...and this cycle over time turns to frustration ....because the food is not solving the problem .....but as they become even more frustrated ...they distract from this feeling ..again with food ....which helps them for a short time...but does not takeaway the cause of their over eating ...which is ..the feeling they dont like .....and if this goes on long enough ..the mind body will shut down .....ie depression ....a feeling of just giving up ....whats the use ?......
The cause of this symptom (the overeating) is the FEELING she is trying to self medicate from with food
you need to find out what is causing her to feel this way .....I explain that " it is ok to feel your feelings .....because something happened to you to make you feel this way" I then get her to close her eyes and describe the feeling ...how does it feel ?...where do you feel it in your body ? is it a good feeling or a bad feeling? ..etc...then ask What does this feeling remind you of ?............this will usually start a regression back to an event where someone hurt her .....or where she feels guilty about hurting some one ......and this is where I would start my work .....useing your skills to release the emotional pressure ....release the Anger ,Guilt ,Fear etc ...and get some clarity so that she can see the good in the event and forgive the offenders and herself ....and start to feel better ....when you have done this ....and you have taken the emotional charge away from this event you can go to earlier times she felt this way .....slowly , gently clearing out all of the negative emotions untill you reach the ISE ( the very first event that caused this feeling)
Always installing Love and acceptance of themselves ...just the way they are ...(inner child work etc)
The key is to get them to love and accept themselves just the way they are ......and let go of the past ....
AR and release work is not really something you can learn from a book ...or a 2 week course...( which is why so many on here have trouble using it )
but a good start would be Cal Banyans 5-PATH course ......and find a good Mentor to help you when you get stuck :-)

Craig

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on November 28, 2009 at 8:02pm

Sue,
I would be happy to share techniques with you, if interested, drop me an email :)

John

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Permalink Reply by ricky strode on November 28, 2009 at 8:55pm

Pesonaly you don't have to do anykind of regression that really just draws out the session and actually makes it harder on you and them. Their unconcious knows what stands between x,y and z so state specifically what they want the outcome to be and work backwards to have y and x, because you already have z by then. Want to know more ? If so you know what to do.

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Permalink Reply by Roy Hunter on November 29, 2009 at 8:28pm

Some of the clients some of the time WILL need regression in order to discover and release the core cause, otherwise the results might be either temporary or partial.

Roy Hunter, M.S., FAPHP
www.royhunter.com
PS: If you are not trained in regression, don't criticize those who use it.

ricky strode said:

Pesonaly you don't have to do anykind of regression that really just draws out the session and actually makes it harder on you and them. Their unconcious knows what stands between x,y and z so state specifically what they want the outcome to be and work backwards to have y and x, because you already have z by then. Want to know more ? If so you know what to do.

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Permalink Reply by Adrian Tannock on January 17, 2010 at 1:53pm

Dr. Aleksonder Regal said:

John,

Direct suggestion is only effective after the negative forcing functions have been properly addressed and eliminated which requires advanced study and deeper states of hypnosis.

Hiya,

You seem quite certain of this, and yet:

I use hypnotic suggestion to deliver (an idiosyncratic form of) CBT which works very well. I'm turning to this more & more and find it very effective. This is not band-aid therapy by any stretch, and lasting changes are being gained.

Similarly, using John Grinder's reduced verbal package & streamlined 6-step reframe, great change(s) can happen. This is true of parts therapy too.

Also, using ideo-dynamic work with a person's "unconscious mind" (as per Tad James) - people can & do make permanent changes without having to ventilate emotions from past experiences.

All of the above techniques can occur in relatively light trances...

I do agree that the negative emotional beliefs/trance-identities that stand behind a person's presenting issue(s) have to be addressed, and in some cases the removal of negative affect from past experiences is desirable (and associated regression, dissociated regression, EMDR, even EFT is all good for this) - but to imply that is the only way to bring about permanent change makes no sense and simply isn't true.

To me it seems obvious: it's more about the relationship that the techniques...

Just my 2p,

Adrian

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on January 17, 2010 at 2:38pm

To answer your question, I think contacting Roy Hunter (royhunter.com) is an excellent place to start in gaining an understanding of regression technique. He has some excellent materials on this subject. Katherine Zimmerman, California Hypnotherapy Academy (trancetime.com) is also an excellent source, as is Melissa Roth, Alabama Hypnotherapy.

I think you are correct in gaining a good understanding of regression before attempting it with a client. It is a very powerful tool, but one needs to know how to handle what may come up during regression, especially if the client has an abreaction. There are different theories on abreactions; I am of the belief they are a breakthrough for the client and useful exploring ... others are of the belief you should avoid working with them.

I virtually always use regression at some point with weight release clients. Gaining an understanding of our relationship with food is essential in regaining our personal control over our eating habits.

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Permalink Reply by Adrian Tannock on January 17, 2010 at 2:45pm

Well - I could suggest that you re-read my post (so you can address what I actually wrote) rather than fixating on winning an imaginary message-board pissing contest via straw-man fallacy and flannel... Most unregal, doctor... ;-)

However, instead, let me just point out 3 things quickly:

1. One's beliefs are simply models which reflect learning & experience; throwing around terms like "band aid" or "quick change artist" without seeking out the facts seems to demonstrate a lack of nuanced thinking at that point.

2. Nobody mentioned anything about "changing a pattern". You do not know that, via hypnosis-delivered CBT (for example), the root-cause of a person's presenting issue is not being "eliminated".

3. To my mind, the moment a person decides their way is the only true way, that person has become a fundamentalist. This is never a good thing. My answer to all such debates is "maybe..."

Cheers,

Adrian

Dr. Aleksonder Regal said:

Adrian,
Changing a pattern is not rectifying the presenting issue. It is a "band-aid" that may work long term, however at the expense of internal irresolution. That a result is attained is not relevant to my statement. The issue I am addressing is whether or not the root cause is eliminated or not. That is the essence of being truly effective or just a quick change artist. Dr. Regal Adrian Tannock said:

Dr. Aleksonder Regal said:

John,

Direct suggestion is only effective after the negative forcing functions have been properly addressed and eliminated which requires advanced study and deeper states of hypnosis.

Hiya,

You seem quite certain of this, and yet:

I use hypnotic suggestion to deliver (an idiosyncratic form of) CBT which works very well. I'm turning to this more & more and find it very effective. This is not band-aid therapy by any stretch, and lasting changes are being gained.

Similarly, using John Grinder's reduced verbal package & streamlined 6-step reframe, great change(s) can happen. This is true of parts therapy too.

Also, using ideo-dynamic work with a person's "unconscious mind" (as per Tad James) - people can & do make permanent changes without having to ventilate emotions from past experiences.

All of the above techniques can occur in relatively light trances...

I do agree that the negative emotional beliefs/trance-identities that stand behind a person's presenting issue(s) have to be addressed, and in some cases the removal of negative affect from past experiences is desirable (and associated regression, dissociated regression, EMDR, even EFT is all good for this) - but to imply that is the only way to bring about permanent change makes no sense and simply isn't true.

To me it seems obvious: it's more about the relationship that the techniques...

Just my 2p,

Adrian

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Permalink Reply by Adrian Tannock on January 17, 2010 at 4:04pm

Hiya Alexsonder,

Apologies - I certainly would not want you to feel unwelcome. It seemed to me that our debate was simply a bit spicy...

Lets try again.

I think you're saying: you have to address the root cause of a person's presenting issues in order for a person to fully and truly heal, and that direct suggestion wouldn't be enough to do that due to negative forcing functions (which require some form of associated regression-to-cause / affect ventilation to remove). Anything else is 'band-aid' therapy and the effects typically temporary.

(This is a position taken by many on this board, especially those who've trained with Kein / Banyan etc. I can relate to it, in that I have had cases - many cases, where this has seemed true).

However, not always true. So, I'm simply saying in return that non-regressive techniques can be highly effective when it comes to removing "negative forcing functions" in order to bring about true healing. True healing, not "band-aid therapy". Essentially, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and hypnos (in my opinion) should avoid ossification at all costs.

My point isn't a million miles away from yours, but I guess it is different. Again apologies if I pissed you off. I hope that we can now debate the points and I'll play nice as it were, we're here to learn after all.

Cheers,

Adrian

PS: I find it hard to place myself as either idealist or realist. I can see how you're an idealist, but it seems that John is in fact just a miserablist! ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Adrian Tannock on January 17, 2010 at 5:21pm

Hi Aleksonder,

Responses below.

Dr. Aleksonder Regal said:

Hello Adrian,
Once the root cause is addressed, "healing" becomes possible. Changing a "behavior" is not healing a "condition". Band-aid therapy is used for the "circumvention" of symptoms. Some clients request Traditional Hypnotherapy. They end up coming back eventually, since a "quick fix" is only temporary. One has to deal with the cause behind the effect to get resolution. That is Metaphysical work not Cognitive-Behavioral therapy.

Okay, but it's not just about changing behaviour - many things can be changed using suggestion (and metaphor, NLP, ideodynamic healing, CBT (in or out of hypnosis), EFT, EMDR etc). For example Identity; beliefs & values; capabilities; behaviours and perception-of-environment (e.g. Gregory Bateson's neurological levels). These matters can all be changed without regression, and healing can occur. Permanent healing, without symptom substitution.

(So I am talking about thorough work, not a quick-fix).

I am not adverse to your psycho-dynamic philosophy, in fact I strongly lean in that direction and use associated regression (as well as dissociated regression / v-k dissociation on SEEs). I just do not believe that one always has to take that route to the 'cause' in order to resolve the undesired effect...


Dr. Aleksonder Regal said:

At best, the client overcomes an isuue, let's say "Smoking Cessation", however due to their ongoing unresolved anxiety, they now turn towards another substance abuse, e.g. "Overeating", "Nail Biting", "Hair Pulling" etc.

Hopefully I've addressed this above. Symptom-substitution might occur yes if you just operated on a behavioural level only, but getting into a person's beliefs, identity; getting into the processes and structure of their 'problem' (and their 'solution') means thorough, high quality work is again possibly without "regression-to-cause / ventilate / re-frame" etc.

I do understand that is your belief Aleksonder, but it is not my experience (and lets be clear, I am no newbie: I am time served and battle-hardened... ;-)

Dr. Aleksonder Regal said:

I agree that "non-regressive" ways can be utilized when it comes to removing "negative forcing functions" however this is a new topic and is best addressed in another thread. In fact, Dr. Hunter is one of the world's foremost authorities on one method called Parts Therapy which at times requires the use of the technique called Regression therapy.

Yes, I'd like to train with Roy at some point as he comes highly recommended.

To summarise, I do use associated regression & Parts Therapy as well as NLP / hypno-CBT, and I am very much an integrative therapist who buys into the whole psycho-dynamic ethos. But to me, the relationship - the rapport - that exists between people is far more important than the techniques (or ways) one deploys, and true healing can occur without looking to 'regress-to-cause' in each instance.

There are other forms of thoroughness, and other routes to fundamental and systemic change.

Cheers,

Adrian

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Permalink Reply by Brian David Phillips on January 17, 2010 at 5:50pm

Most folks who currently do age regression do not limit themselves to AR alone but are performing Hypnoanalysis which combines AR with Parts Therapy with a number of Gestalt and Forgiveness techniques and the like.

Solid information on regression technique can be found in Dave Elman's HYPNOTHERAPY book, although most folks who currently teach regression have also added some of the gestalt additions that Gil Boyne's TRANSFORMING THERAPY describes. Cal Banyan & Jerry Kein's book is excellent and anything and everything by Roy Hunter is a MUST HAVE.

Get the books and devour them.

Hunter, Kein, Banyan, and Boyne all have DVDs.

If you can take a live course with any of those folks, do so. Roy's work with PARTS THERAPY is very very much worth learning and has become a staple of hypno-analysis.

All the best,
Brian
http://www.briandavidphillips.com

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on January 17, 2010 at 7:24pm

There is no best technique -- Sue. But, hey, that's just my opinion.

FYI- I agree with John, Ricky, Adrian and Brian. I disagree with Roy and Aleksonder and again it's just my opinion.

1. John R. advised against addressing self-sabotage in your next session, suggesting that it was an assumption on your part. I agree.

My advice is: Believe in your clients! Imagine that they are doing their best and believe that you have the skills and abilities to help them reach and maintain their goals. Just my opinion- mind you...

I agree with Ricky and Adrian -- AR is not necessary -
I think Brian gave you excellent advice. If you are interested in adding AR to your toolbox I recommend adding Boyne-enhanced-AR and/or Hunter-enchanced-AR. Both approaches can be very effective! Once again, just my opinion --

Roy Hunter is an outstanding hypnosis professional and educator and I consider him a friend. Roy and I have as they say history, in that we have been teaching at the same conferences for decades and we have both enjoyed watching each other grow and distinguish ourselves in the field. The only problem that I have with Roy is that he sometimes forgets to say "In my opinion" or "I believe"

Roy posted: "Some of the clients some of the time WILL need regression in order to discover and release the core cause, otherwise the results might be either temporary or partial."

I disagree with Roy's opinion and belief that some clients WILL need regression. I do believe that for some clients -Enhanced RA is the best way to go in terms of their world views and culture, but there are many ways to stroke a cat, but first you must be naturally able to or learn how to earn the clients trust. After that it's different strokes for different folks.

Back to your client- If I read you correctly - You are not sure if you are ready to use RA with this client.

Here is an alternative -

Intro: if ever a client doesn't get a desired result you have to give them a reason to continue believing that you can help them--
It could be as simple as telling her - Every one responds to hypnosis in their own way and some people seem to need to take a step back, before moving forward and reaching and maintaing their goals - Recommend a several session program that will
help her think and feel in ways that promote feeling and looking great-

Meet your clients expectation for a hypnotic experience using your induction of choice for this client and
1. Focus the client's attention on the benefits and advantages of feeling and looking great
2. Teach the client to relax more and stress less
3. Motivate the client to eat less and exercise more -- (Benefits and Advantages of Feeling and Looking Great!)
And all of this moves us into the realm of helping clients discover that there is a direct relationship between their health and weight and the choices they make.
Hint- I would check out the nutritional counselors in my hood and identify the ones who are hypno-friendly and recommend that she forget about dieting and put her energy on developing a healthy diet while you support her hypnotically--

If you learn anything from this thread, I hope it is that you are too smart to pay attention to any one who tells you that there is only one way to help clients... Again, just my opinion...

Warmest regards,

Michael E.

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Permalink Reply by Adrian Tannock on January 17, 2010 at 8:20pm

Michael Ellner said:

...but there are many ways to stroke a cat...

Bingo!

Aleksonder - thanks for the conversation, and the encouragement. I hear what you're saying re: cause & effect, and I certainly wouldn't discount it. Is the bottom line? For me, I think not... It's one of an array of considerations; to me the bottom line is working with cause & effect yes, but also empowering our clients... inspiring our clients... guiding our clients... and most importantly of all: being right there for our clients. Then, as you say, their healing comes from within.

Cheers & thanks,

Adrian

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