the Free Hypnosis Social Network
Altered state
Hypnosis isn't an 'Altered State'. It is an induced - Created - state.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on -
I disagree. It appears to be simply a purposeful amplification of a natural state.
John
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Permalink Reply by Jess Marion on -
I would say there's no such thing as an altered state ultimately since our states are constantly changing. Hypnosis is just another one of those states. Referring to it as an altered state can be a useful metaphor however.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on -
I'm with john, no phenomena occurs in hypnosis that doesn't occur outside of hypnosis, altered state is a loaded term, conjurs up image of a state that does not exist in real life
It isn't s created state, hypnosis is a directed state
But then this discussion presumes we all agree on the
definition of: state, hypnosis, altered, created, directed and natural so like many of these debates are simply semantic, which often differs depending on which side of the pond one learned english
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Permalink Reply by Marc Carlin on -
I don't think altered state describes a state that doesn't exist in real life. I think it is just a description of a state that is different from the state that we are usually in.
And our states are in constant flux. I don't think they are as fluid as the barrage of thoughts that cross our mind throughout a 24 hour cycle but they are fluid and changeable.
So we experience a number of differing states. There is a state that is predominant and we spend the majority of our time in that most familiar state. Hypnosis is guiding someone into a directed state that is used to communicate more efficiently and effectively for change work.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on -
Let's imagine for a moment that hypnosis and trance have different meanings --
I believe that "Hypnosis" can happen "inside" and "outside" of " conventional trance." In fact, I'd say most people experience daily hypnotic experiences without the benefit of conventional entrancement..
I agree with Richard - it's just word games unless we agree on the meanings of the terms hypnosis, state, etc., in order to have a cogent discussion.
@ John C. -- I wonder what purpose you think is behind "highway" hypnosis?
@ Richard and Marc - Who do you think is directing spontaneous hypnosis?
@ Jon - Who is inducing "accidental" hypnosis?
@ Jess - I just don't see any benefit of using the Altered State model unless one is marketing their services to people who are at ease with mind altering drugs. I kid, but the term "altered state" does have serious negative charges and I think that we would win more friends and clients if we talked about guiding people into "enhanced" states of being instead of using the Altered State rap.... Just my opinion.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on
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Remember the 1980's movie, or at least the commercials for, "ALTERED STATES"
Sure if we alter a state from anxious to calm, it is an "altered state"
but in the publics mind, at least since the 1980's, altered state means a state that does not naturally occurs, one from aliens or science fiction or some other abnormal paranormal state.
And so the term altered state, is really a useless term, in that the words do not literally mean what the perception of the words are.
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Permalink Reply by Marc Carlin on
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Hi Michael,
Good questions, I'll get back to you when I figure out an answer to the one you presented to me.
During my pre talk I use the term altered state of consciousness and compare it to an altered state of unconsciousness to let my clients know that they will be conscious during the trance portion of our work. So many come in expecting to be unconscious that I want to rid them of this expectation before we get started. I haven't given much thought to public's perception of altered state being a negative thing. Probably because of my experimenting with altered states during college.
Michael Ellner said:Let's imagine for a moment that hypnosis and trance have different meanings --
I believe that "Hypnosis" can happen "inside" and "outside" of " conventional trance." In fact, I'd say most people experience daily hypnotic experiences without the benefit of conventional entrancement..
I agree with Richard - it's just word games unless we agree on the meanings of the terms hypnosis, state, etc., in order to have a cogent discussion.
@ John C. -- I wonder what purpose you think is behind "highway" hypnosis?
@ Richard and Marc - Who do you think is directing spontaneous hypnosis?
@ Jon - Who is inducing "accidental" hypnosis?
@ Jess - I just don't see any benefit of using the Altered State model unless one is marketing their services to people who are at ease with mind altering drugs. I kid, but the term "altered state" does have serious negative charges and I think that we would win more friends and clients if we talked about guiding people into "enhanced" states of being instead of using the Altered State rap.... Just my opinion.
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Permalink Reply by Ray on -
This will suggest that hypnosis is a state! There's no proof out there that makes hypnosis and/or trance a measurable state unlike relaxation, happiness, sadness, stress and even specific lying related stress.
We all know that certain mental states make certain suggestions easier acceptabel than others.
We know that people who are depressed react very poorly on "happy" suggestions --they simply do not fit in their current modus-operandi-- however they take in negative suggestions easily just say: "that heavy, feeling of greyness gets intenser every day right? You feel alone and so tired..." They take that like a kid takes cookies from a cooky jar.
We do not change a mental state except shift it from one state to a potential relaxed state. We all know that a relaxed state is more workable than either idyllic happy state or a vert depressed state. It allows a bit of room to shift between the states and make the person feel and associate with different states (if he/she likes that).
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Permalink Reply by Jess Marion on
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Michael Ellner said:Let's imagine for a moment that hypnosis and trance have different meanings --
I believe that "Hypnosis" can happen "inside" and "outside" of " conventional trance." In fact, I'd say most people experience daily hypnotic experiences without the benefit of conventional entrancement..
I agree with Richard - it's just word games unless we agree on the meanings of the terms hypnosis, state, etc., in order to have a cogent discussion.
@ John C. -- I wonder what purpose you think is behind "highway" hypnosis?
@ Richard and Marc - Who do you think is directing spontaneous hypnosis?
@ Jon - Who is inducing "accidental" hypnosis?
@ Jess - I just don't see any benefit of using the Altered State model unless one is marketing their services to people who are at ease with mind altering drugs. I kid, but the term "altered state" does have serious negative charges and I think that we would win more friends and clients if we talked about guiding people into "enhanced" states of being instead of using the Altered State rap.... Just my opinion.
I wasn't so much referring to marketing something as altered states. I was speaking more in terms of the ways people think about hypnosis as being something different from other states we inhabit. It can be a very useful metaphor when you have a client who already has that type of frame in place. I'm not one to get too philosophical so whether it is really an altered state of consciousness or not doesn't really matter to me in the end as long as the person I'm working with has the opportunity to get something positive out of the interaction... Although it is an interesting discussion to have.
All the Best,
Jess
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Permalink Reply by Ray on
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So basically you condone all forms of quackery? Because most forms of quackery do have a placebo effect. Even prescribing placebo drugs and explaining what they do, do work against psychosomatic illnesses and symptoms.
This is something I have a moral problem with at one side and I agree with you on the other side.
I think we need to be aware of this as therapists that we are a placebo and then we can ethically practice or skills.
Jess Marion said:
Michael Ellner said:Let's imagine for a moment that hypnosis and trance have different meanings --
I believe that "Hypnosis" can happen "inside" and "outside" of " conventional trance." In fact, I'd say most people experience daily hypnotic experiences without the benefit of conventional entrancement..
I agree with Richard - it's just word games unless we agree on the meanings of the terms hypnosis, state, etc., in order to have a cogent discussion.
@ John C. -- I wonder what purpose you think is behind "highway" hypnosis?
@ Richard and Marc - Who do you think is directing spontaneous hypnosis?
@ Jon - Who is inducing "accidental" hypnosis?
@ Jess - I just don't see any benefit of using the Altered State model unless one is marketing their services to people who are at ease with mind altering drugs. I kid, but the term "altered state" does have serious negative charges and I think that we would win more friends and clients if we talked about guiding people into "enhanced" states of being instead of using the Altered State rap.... Just my opinion.
I wasn't so much referring to marketing something as altered states. I was speaking more in terms of the ways people think about hypnosis as being something different from other states we inhabit. It can be a very useful metaphor when you have a client who already has that type of frame in place. I'm not one to get too philosophical so whether it is really an altered state of consciousness or not doesn't really matter to me in the end as long as the person I'm working with has the opportunity to get something positive out of the interaction... Although it is an interesting discussion to have.
All the Best,
Jess
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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on
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Michael,
This goes along with my statement about just amplifying a natural state. To answer your question about what purpose is behind highway hypnosis, I would have to say "relief from boredom". We start thinking about other things, or even focus on nothing at all, and let our automatic reaction ability (that I call trance) manifest and drive for us, the same way we use it whenever else we multi-task.
John
Michael Ellner said:Let's imagine for a moment that hypnosis and trance have different meanings --
I believe that "Hypnosis" can happen "inside" and "outside" of " conventional trance." In fact, I'd say most people experience daily hypnotic experiences without the benefit of conventional entrancement..
I agree with Richard - it's just word games unless we agree on the meanings of the terms hypnosis, state, etc., in order to have a cogent discussion.
@ John C. -- I wonder what purpose you think is behind "highway" hypnosis?
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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on
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Raymond,
You are free to quack away, but keep it down will ya, the kids are asleep.
As for me, I help people change the way they feel. I remove irrational fears from their lives. I take away nicotine cravings and withdrawal symptoms, and help them change unwanted behaviors. I help people get rid of emotional baggage. I show them how to take away their pain.
I help educate them so that they understand that when a medical doctor gives them a placebo; a sugar pill, it is a fake, but it sometimes achieves the desired effect.....where the body just fixes itself.
Then I explain that the doctors don't know why their placebo works when it does work, but when it does work, they call it "a placebo effect". Which simply means they don't know why it works, but it does work.
Hypnosis has also been referred to as using a placebo effect, meaning that it works, but they don't understand how it works.
A medical doctor who is not very good at what he does is called a quack. I guess that anyone who is not very good at what they do can be called a quack. So...the question remains....are YOU a quack? or do you engage in quackery?
I for one am not.
I hope I was able to say this in an understandable manner.
John
Raymond Doetjes said:So basically you condone all forms of quackery? Because most forms of quackery do have a placebo effect. Even prescribing placebo drugs and explaining what they do, do work against psychosomatic illnesses and symptoms.
This is something I have a moral problem with at one side and I agree with you on the other side.
I think we need to be aware of this as therapists that we are a placebo and then we can ethically practice or skills.
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