Any Ideas?

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Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on September 15, 2009 at 7:08pm

Thanks Cynthia - I'm smiling because after walking away from this for awhile I began to think of ways to cleanse - we are thinking along the same lines.

Cynthia Cameron said:

Hi Roger,
I had a client similar to what you are describing. Insominia and got worse after the first session of hypnosis. She too described the bogey man in the intake sheet.

Fortunately in this case the client continued her sessions with success. The bogey man turned out to be her brother who used to come into room at night and interfere with her.

In the case of your client and what she is requesting what about a Waterfall Cleansing suggestions. Used skilfully I am sure you can address what the client is requesting.

Good luck, and thanks for sharing.

Cynthia Cameron, CHt

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on September 15, 2009 at 9:31pm

Sounds like it might be a case of hyper-vigilance. I would ask her if she would like to know why she couldn't sleep, and if so, then do parts therapy and find out why. Then deal with if from there.

Just my opinion
John

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on September 15, 2009 at 11:43pm

My thoughts on this were like John's.
My insomnia stemmed from feeling I had to stay awake as a child (who knows why?!), and I can do this for about 80 hours before I become exhausted and scared. It's not an active choice: but all the conventional treatments such as 'get up and do something' tend to have me occupied and wide awake! People just don't seem to understand the difference between 'tired' and 'sleepy'.

During our training, one of our colleagues came out of his first trance in tears, where the rest of us had been happy and relaxed. He was holding on to the memory of his dead mother, and internally objected to the suggestions he'd been given about 'letting go'. The 'tist had meant let go of stress, he seemed to interpret it as let go of your mother. He then went on to have visual hallucinations of 'don't get rid of my mother' signs appearing on car windscreens and the like. He wasn't the most emotionally stable of people, and I think it turned out he had personality disorder. But I guess this is an example of what can happen when the problem serves a purpose.

It seems your client is scared, due to her response about it 'not working' (see various 'you're dumped' conversations between lovers).

Parts or Gestalt might work out why, but sometimes, the letting go is more important than the 'why'.

Good luck!

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Permalink Reply by Maria-Pilar Gonzalez on September 16, 2009 at 9:13am

Hi Roger:

I have found that some people "twist" the truth. I wonder why she would want you to "undo" the hypnosis suggestions if they did not work? I believe they worked but she does not want to admit it;there wouldn't be the need to "undo". She probably has a reason she wants to continue with this situation... and you'll have to go there.

If you meet with her again you may find contradictions in her story of "not working" and you'll see that she did indeed sleep. I have seen this with pain management before and after a few sessions I got the admittance that "it" worked from the beginning.

Some people who are old begin to fear "sleeping" because they feel they won't wake up again... did someone pass away recently that was close to her?

I hope you can find the way for her to come back to do more session to find the true core of the issue.

Regards,

Ma. Pilar

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Permalink Reply by Michael White on September 16, 2009 at 10:21am

I've read the above posts and there are some really great ideas! I have mine which might or might not be applicable...

When I read that she shared the cd with her husband I said, "WTF??" I usually don't let any of my clients share their recordings until the recordings work for them, and then I'm usually suspicious. Few do share and they usually complain later on that it isn't working for them. I tell them that of course it doesn't because it's not about them anymore. Where's the freaking magic in letting other people in on our healing journeys and quests for autonomy? Someone else just has to be involved (which is part of the effing problem). Of course she's pissed, there's her husband lying there snoring away while she did all of the work...again. I've run into this before and really had to give some clients some "serious" setting straight (all done with loads of fun and humor, but very clear that this is a big no).

Your recording was for her. Your suggestions were for her. None of this "sharing" BS. She needs to wake up (ha!) and realize that she is too important to keep playing these games with her well-being.

If it were me, I'd offer to make a personalized recording that is special just to her with the unbreakable agreement that it is only for her and that no one else gets to listen to it ever!

That is of course if she is willing to give it another go. If she says yes, fortunately she will be in very capable hands! Good luck

Michael

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Permalink Reply by Michael White on September 16, 2009 at 10:30am

Oh and also, I usually suggest to people to, instead of trying to sleep, to go to the place of dreams or remember dreams. Stuff like that.

Hope it helps.

Michael White said:

I've read the above posts and there are some really great ideas! I have mine which might or might not be applicable...

When I read that she shared the cd with her husband I said, "WTF??" I usually don't let any of my clients share their recordings until the recordings work for them, and then I'm usually suspicious. Few do share and they usually complain later on that it isn't working for them. I tell them that of course it doesn't because it's not about them anymore. Where's the freaking magic in letting other people in on our healing journeys and quests for autonomy? Someone else just has to be involved (which is part of the effing problem). Of course she's pissed, there's her husband lying there snoring away while she did all of the work...again. I've run into this before and really had to give some clients some "serious" setting straight (all done with loads of fun and humor, but very clear that this is a big no).

Your recording was for her. Your suggestions were for her. None of this "sharing" BS. She needs to wake up (ha!) and realize that she is too important to keep playing these games with her well-being.

If it were me, I'd offer to make a personalized recording that is special just to her with the unbreakable agreement that it is only for her and that no one else gets to listen to it ever!

That is of course if she is willing to give it another go. If she says yes, fortunately she will be in very capable hands! Good luck

Michael

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on September 16, 2009 at 11:01am

It appears from your writing that she went into hypnosis, so she has the ability to relax and accept suggestions. I would assume she is blocking the suggestions regarding sleep. I am assuming the husband listened to the CD because wifey claimed it did not work.

Secondary gain? What kind of attention does she receive by having this disorder, and what will she be giving up if she corrects this?

There is a some sort of rare medical disorder (I have no idea what it is called, I just recall watching a documentary on it years ago) whereby the person cannot sleep, and they seem resistant to sleep medications. There are all kinds of complications related to the illness, which, at least in the documentary I watched, can prove to be fatal.

You might Google the symptoms and see what comes up. But it sounds to me there is some type of secondary gain causing her to retain her symptoms.

Also, what kind of doctor was she seeing? Is she taking anti-depressants? Some medications will cause problems with sleep, and if a medication is to blame, I doubt hypnosis will accomplish what she wants.

There are some herbal remedies that seem to be effective is assisting with sleep.

What is she eating and/or drinking at night or before sleep? Any napping in the daytime that would indicate she "can" sleep?

Just food for thought.

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Permalink Reply by Kerry on September 16, 2009 at 11:07am

I have had a client come to me with sleep problems...after our first hypnosis session she also claimed that her problems got worse (I remember thinking at the time "how can they get worse if you're already NOT sleeping AT ALL as your preliminary interview states).

I stopped using hypnosis on her for 3 more sessions and instead switched to EFT. During our EFT sessions we dug up all sorts of trauma and drama. After the 3rd EFT session she slept about 6 hours (which she said was the most sleep she'd had in a month...of course I didn't quite believe that since she'd look a lot worse if she had only slept 6 hours in an entire month).

Then we had another hypnosis session...typical sleep session...which "took" this time and worked like "magic" (her words). Last I had heard from her she said that she sleeps quite well, and whenever she finds herself up at night she uses EFT she learned from me on herself and falls right to sleep.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Dennehy (Paul Dee) on September 16, 2009 at 1:22pm

Hi Roger,
Your client seems to be resisting hypnosis possibly because of a subconscious conflict in relation to an experience tenuously linked to the Boey Man. It could be as Cynthia suggests or it could be something seemingly disconnected. The subconscious will reveal the nature of the conflict once rapport is established. I'll refrain from going any further because hypnosis is like a language - many dialects, and unless you and I are speaking the same dialect anything further I'd have to offer would have little value for you.

I hope she can rest easy soon.
regards,

Paul Dee

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Permalink Reply by Bruce Taylor C.Ht on September 16, 2009 at 4:33pm

I had a client once that slept at the most two hours a night. We did the first session which was only hypnosis and convincers with a direct suggestion at the end. She also shared that she had no memory of around age 4 to around age 7. Second session we di regression to cause and found that she had been abused from the teenage girl next door that her mother use to send he to because her father was an mean alcoholic. Did some relieving of anger and de-sensitizing of ISE and SSE's. Third session did we di chair therapy with mother and father. Released more anger and forgiveness work. Also did forgiveness work with self and finished it up with parts work. She now sleep 8 to 10 hours and is very happy as she said her life has improved considerably.

So I guess what I am saying is she may have some inner conflict that needs clearing up. That is if she is serious about resolving her issue.

Bruce Taylor

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Permalink Reply by Graham Fitz on September 16, 2009 at 5:12pm

Roger

I suppose it would be too simple to suggest that remembering her childhood boogieman before the session could have brought it to the front of her mind and could be the reason her sleeping got worse ?


Graham

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Altfeld on September 16, 2009 at 5:43pm

I've seen some good advice offered here, and I've also seen some serious misinterpretation of what you originally wrote. I read the full original post and it seems to me a number of people are answering something other than what you wrote. E.g., I did not get the impression that you sent her home with a custom recording that she shared with her husband. I get the impression you sent her home with one of your pre-recorded titles. Which should be perfectly fine to share with a spouse.

Anyway -- a lot of good intentions clearly -- but I really recommend readers spend a little more time reading accurately.

One of the things that's rather clearly missing from options suggested... is a bit of Ericksonian tasking.

Your client seems to have a secondary gain resulting from not going to sleep. Your sleep suggestions clearly sparked some resistance -- which she's interpreting as "hypnosis not working."

So why not call her back and agree with her, and say "I totally agree, hypnosis clearly isn't working here, but I do have another solution that typically works a charm in situations like this. But I won't agree to offer you this common secondary approach... unless you agree to follow my instructions to the letter."

Then give her some kind of task(s) that pushes her more in the direction her mind has been taking her anyway, temporarily. Make her resist sleep rather than keep trying to get sleep. Have her do something at night when she should be going to bed... that will force her to stay up indefinitely. Make her dance for 30 minutes, or go for a 1-hour walk at midnight, when she would normally be laying down to TRY to go to bed. Or have her take an album she can't stand, and tell her she has to play that album beginning at 11:00pm, from start to finish, on a loud volume, and that for the entire time, she's not allowed to sit down -- she has to be standing the entire time. Make her do this for 5 nights straight, and tell her that AFTER she's followed these tasks to the letter, ALL of her sleep problems will be permanently gone, for all the right reasons.

In a case like this, I would suggest whatever task(s) you recommend should include (a) standing up with movement rather than sitting or lying down.. (b) at least an hour's worth of late night activity instead of bedtime. Two hours, even better. (c) involves loud noises that will help drown out her internal dialogue and make her yearn for creating a peaceful internal silence, and (d) keep her AWAY from the bed when she's having trouble sleeping -- she may have polluted her natural anchors for sleep by staying in bed when restless.

I know that sometimes you have to "deal with the problem." And, thanks to Uncle Milton, we also know that sometimes, we can assign indirect tasks... to train people to find their own reasons to justify wiring around the problem.

Just a thought.

- Jonathan Altfeld

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