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Can some drugs benificialy aid the hypnotic prosses?
Going in to trance somewhat depends on ones ability to focus or concentrate; wouldn't drugs such as
Adderall or Concerta, which increase increase focus and attention help one go deeper into trance?
Can pain relievers such as Vicodin which can potentially increase relaxation also aid the hypnotic
prosses? Entheogens or psychodelics that have been used for religioes purposes have also been
gainging much more attention from the scientific community and many thereputic uses are being
dicoverd. DMT falls under this category and a full length documentary (Spirit Molecule) has been
created about DMT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQf9rn96CRQ . This video is very interesting,
give it a watch, what implications do you think that such substances may have on the hypnotic
proses,or our perception in general?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on -
Adderall does't increase concentration. Rather, becasues of changes in the neural pathways, the improved capacity to concentrate is noted in patients taking the drug. But the drug does not cause it, it is rather oddly, actually a side effect of the drug.
Splitting hairs, but important, because this means one is no more or less likely to be successful in hypnosis because of the drug.
Hypnosis is a naturally occuring phenomena, and it occurs every day in every person, those with our without ADD, those with or without religious drugs, those with and without alcohol, or any other drug, RX or not.
I have hypnotized zillions of people, using ilegle drugs in las Vegas on sate, in hospital psychiatric units on various medications, etc. and have found that just like any other difficult client, it is in the approach.
It has also been my experience that these chemically altered states, actually decrease performance and response. For example, let take pot. Pot smoker seem to be able to focus on the most mundane thing for long periods. BUT to the exclusion of everything else, including directions.
My experience with psycoelics is the same. Sure they can active state- but they don't follow directions or develop insight, and that makes it the antithesis to either a good stage show OR therapy....
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Permalink Reply by MeandMyself on -
Interesting, the argument about fallowing directions seems to be valid, but what if one goes into trance via self hypnosis, and simply uses visualization/imagination in no specific format and in no specific order without direction or script? Studies on many of these drugs implies that they should theoretically help people become more "absorbed" within their own thoughts. I think taking directions/hypnotist out of the equation were one simply uses self hypnosis with no recording and uses his or her imagination may be a technique that translates into a higher possibility of drugs aiding the hypnotic proses vs one were there are directions involved.
Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com said:Adderall does't increase concentration. Rather, becasues of changes in the neural pathways, the improved capacity to concentrate is noted in patients taking the drug. But the drug does not cause it, it is rather oddly, actually a side effect of the drug.
Splitting hairs, but important, because this means one is no more or less likely to be successful in hypnosis because of the drug.
Hypnosis is a naturally occuring phenomena, and it occurs every day in every person, those with our without ADD, those with or without religious drugs, those with and without alcohol, or any other drug, RX or not.
I have hypnotized zillions of people, using ilegle drugs in las Vegas on sate, in hospital psychiatric units on various medications, etc. and have found that just like any other difficult client, it is in the approach.
It has also been my experience that these chemically altered states, actually decrease performance and response. For example, let take pot. Pot smoker seem to be able to focus on the most mundane thing for long periods. BUT to the exclusion of everything else, including directions.
My experience with psycoelics is the same. Sure they can active state- but they don't follow directions or develop insight, and that makes it the antithesis to either a good stage show OR therapy....
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Permalink Reply by Scott Sandland on -
I've seen a study or two that says small doses of nitrous oxide enhances the effects of hypnosis, but I've never experimented with it personally.
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Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig - HypnosisAustin on -
In high school, when I was offered various drugs, I always said, "I'm weird enough already."
Drugs have been used to induce trance/visions for millenia--many shamanic traditions use them.
That said, drugs really aren't necessary. You can have intense experiences purely with visualization, and you will have more control over the experiences. You will also avoid various nasty side-effects.
If visualization alone isn't enough for you, try drumming, chanting, or dancing--or as modern American shamans like to say, "Drums, not Drugs!"
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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on -
In your scenario, all you have is the effects of the drugs.. with minimal or no hypnosis. The reason why is because hypnotic trance is about a mental state enabling automatic reaction to input, not willful compliance. In order to have automatic reaction, you need direction of some sort. If no direction...no automatic reaction to it... no tickee...no washee.. Not saying that it is impossible to do... just that the training and self-conditioning to actually achieve what you are saying by developing the judgmental mind to guide it would be a long time in development.
John
MeandMyself said:Interesting, the argument about fallowing directions seems to be valid, but what if one goes into trance via self hypnosis, and simply uses visualization/imagination in no specific format and in no specific order without direction or script? Studies on many of these drugs implies that they should theoretically help people become more "absorbed" within their own thoughts. I think taking directions/hypnotist out of the equation were one simply uses self hypnosis with no recording and uses his or her imagination may be a technique that translates into a higher possibility of drugs aiding the hypnotic proses vs one were there are directions involved.
Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com said:Adderall does't increase concentration. Rather, becasues of changes in the neural pathways, the improved capacity to concentrate is noted in patients taking the drug. But the drug does not cause it, it is rather oddly, actually a side effect of the drug.
Splitting hairs, but important, because this means one is no more or less likely to be successful in hypnosis because of the drug.
Hypnosis is a naturally occuring phenomena, and it occurs every day in every person, those with our without ADD, those with or without religious drugs, those with and without alcohol, or any other drug, RX or not.
I have hypnotized zillions of people, using ilegle drugs in las Vegas on sate, in hospital psychiatric units on various medications, etc. and have found that just like any other difficult client, it is in the approach.
It has also been my experience that these chemically altered states, actually decrease performance and response. For example, let take pot. Pot smoker seem to be able to focus on the most mundane thing for long periods. BUT to the exclusion of everything else, including directions.
My experience with psycoelics is the same. Sure they can active state- but they don't follow directions or develop insight, and that makes it the antithesis to either a good stage show OR therapy....
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Permalink Reply by Marc Whipple on -
I doubt there are any drugs that *only* aid or hinder the hypnotic process. As with all things in life, there are trade-offs. Stimulants might make a subject able to focus better, but would make it harder for them to relax. Depressants make it easier to relax but make it harder to receive, parse, and retain suggestion. Psychedelics are often unpredictable in a variety of ways.
If the client is WAY to the end of one of the scales, it might be useful to apply some psychoactive drug. But once you start advocating drug use (keeping in mind that even alcohol and caffeine are drugs - they're just available OTC) you start looking more like you're trying to do stuff which is more medical in nature and that's a slippery slope. It's one thing to tell a client, "don't drink any coffee before you come in," or "if you normally have a glass of wine in the evening, it wouldn't hurt to do it before you listen to this hypnosis MP3." But it would be quite something else to say, "You don't focus well. Go see if you can get a script for Adderall."
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Permalink Reply by Barry Neale on -
Why would you want to use any kind of drugs in the hypnotice process? Therapists have successfully used hypnosis for many years and achieved incredible success without resorting to drugs. They are just not necessary.
Also relaxation has NOTHING to do with hypnosis.
You can regress someone back to a time when they were being gang raped behind a McDonalds and if you were to measure her brainwave activity at that moment it would be of the scale.... but she would be in hypnosis.
The other thing with using drugs during hypnosis/therapy is state dependant memory and learning. The session might end up being state bound to the drug experience which is of o use to anyone.
Shamanistic drugs experiences do create altered states but that does not mean they have anything to do with hypnosis. Also if you read the book 59 seconds you will find that research shows that visualisation is not very effective by itself.
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Permalink Reply by Lisa on -
Hi,
From what I have experienced relaxation can be a suggestion in hypnosis but doesn't have to be nor does relaxation by itself result in trance. I can be profoundly relaxed and not be in trance at all. Which is good because I'd probably drown in a hot tub <g> I find it is more about direction of attention or focus that can become so intense that it may result in trance. If I am so focusing my attention on a movie, daydream, book, flame, music, that I become immersed in it I may not perceive things occurring around me even directly in front of me. I experience that exact thing in trance.
I think some drugs can result in brief absorption in certain tasks but the mind is just as likely to go fluttering off with no notice on another tangent with not much provocation or none at all. In my younger wilder more reckless days ( 2 decades ago) I experienced some experimentation in this area across several classes of recreational substances.
I really doubt any drug would be of much use with hypnosis therapeutically because of unpredictability of the effects. With self hypnosis or formally guided by a hypnotist. I think it would be a huge waste of time.
I am aware of rituals that incorporate elements of both but I don't think that is what you mean as you appear to be describing hypnosis and drug usefulness in general. I agree with the others who think that mixing the 2 makes it impossible or at least very hard to really have any idea what effects are from what and may work against effective hypnosis work.
I think the way you go deeper in trance is to learn to go more deeply with your mind alone or with a guide. To purely explore the state itself over time.
gentle eve'
Lisa
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Permalink Reply by MeandMyself on
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True, that situation does resemble meditation more than it does hypnosis>
John Cleesattel said:In your scenario, all you have is the effects of the drugs.. with minimal or no hypnosis. The reason why is because hypnotic trance is about a mental state enabling automatic reaction to input, not willful compliance. In order to have automatic reaction, you need direction of some sort. If no direction...no automatic reaction to it... no tickee...no washee.. Not saying that it is impossible to do... just that the training and self-conditioning to actually achieve what you are saying by developing the judgmental mind to guide it would be a long time in development.
John
MeandMyself said:Interesting, the argument about fallowing directions seems to be valid, but what if one goes into trance via self hypnosis, and simply uses visualization/imagination in no specific format and in no specific order without direction or script? Studies on many of these drugs implies that they should theoretically help people become more "absorbed" within their own thoughts. I think taking directions/hypnotist out of the equation were one simply uses self hypnosis with no recording and uses his or her imagination may be a technique that translates into a higher possibility of drugs aiding the hypnotic proses vs one were there are directions involved.
Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com said:Adderall does't increase concentration. Rather, becasues of changes in the neural pathways, the improved capacity to concentrate is noted in patients taking the drug. But the drug does not cause it, it is rather oddly, actually a side effect of the drug.
Splitting hairs, but important, because this means one is no more or less likely to be successful in hypnosis because of the drug.
Hypnosis is a naturally occuring phenomena, and it occurs every day in every person, those with our without ADD, those with or without religious drugs, those with and without alcohol, or any other drug, RX or not.
I have hypnotized zillions of people, using ilegle drugs in las Vegas on sate, in hospital psychiatric units on various medications, etc. and have found that just like any other difficult client, it is in the approach.
It has also been my experience that these chemically altered states, actually decrease performance and response. For example, let take pot. Pot smoker seem to be able to focus on the most mundane thing for long periods. BUT to the exclusion of everything else, including directions.
My experience with psycoelics is the same. Sure they can active state- but they don't follow directions or develop insight, and that makes it the antithesis to either a good stage show OR therapy....
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Permalink Reply by Susan French on -
The one idea I'd like to add, Richard, is that I believe that it might be easier to re-create an experience that you've already had than it would be to re-create one that you have no prior experience of.
I read an article a long time ago (can't cite it, sorry) that suggested that all medications act by letting the mind/brain/body know what it's supposed to experience so that the brain can create it. I'm paraphrasing obviously and not even certain that I got it right, but it was in a discussion about the principles involved in homeopathic medicine, that a tiny bit of anything can become a template that the body can reproduce.
Ya know, kinda like "how could you explain Rock n Rock, especially to a hearing-impaired person?".
Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com said:Adderall does't increase concentration. Rather, becasues of changes in the neural pathways, the improved capacity to concentrate is noted in patients taking the drug. But the drug does not cause it, it is rather oddly, actually a side effect of the drug.
Splitting hairs, but important, because this means one is no more or less likely to be successful in hypnosis because of the drug.
Hypnosis is a naturally occuring phenomena, and it occurs every day in every person, those with our without ADD, those with or without religious drugs, those with and without alcohol, or any other drug, RX or not.
I have hypnotized zillions of people, using ilegle drugs in las Vegas on sate, in hospital psychiatric units on various medications, etc. and have found that just like any other difficult client, it is in the approach.
It has also been my experience that these chemically altered states, actually decrease performance and response. For example, let take pot. Pot smoker seem to be able to focus on the most mundane thing for long periods. BUT to the exclusion of everything else, including directions.
My experience with psycoelics is the same. Sure they can active state- but they don't follow directions or develop insight, and that makes it the antithesis to either a good stage show OR therapy....
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Permalink Reply by Leshem Yosef on -
The Chinese herb called ZIZYPHUS-Suan Zao Ren
up to 6 Gr has a great hypnotic effect on stress subjects
SAFE TO USE
Pdo check it on google if want
Yosef
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Permalink Reply by Barry Neale on
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I think there is a lot a misunderstanding going on here between certain drugs that create altered states and hypnosis. Just because a drug, any drug or herb, even "safe" ones, creates an altered state that does not make it hypnosis.
If anyone thinks they need any type of drug/herb to create hypnosis then I suggest they save up their money and get some better quality hypnosis training.
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