Can you share the specific interventions or techniques you use? Especially our Hypnosis Elders.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bruce Taylor on December 4, 2011 at 1:17pm

Well said Jonathan.

Dr. Jonathan Royle said:

Hi Susan,

For the vast majority of issues I use my own approach of Complete Mind Therapy (CMT) which is a hybrid of all the most effective techniques and terminologies etc that I have ever come across in the past 22 years and to that end rather than repeating myself here, please feel free to take a look at my script, approach (and listen to the audio) here -  http://www.hypnothoughts.com/forum/topics/hypnosis-cd-s

Personally I feel, believe and it is my experience that it is not so important what you do, but rather how you do it.

At the end of the day if Belief, Expectancy & Positive Perception (perceived value) of your skills is there in the mind of the client and they are making a big enough committment (money) then the Placebo effect will kick into place and they will get the changes they desire just so long as you make them go through a ritualistic process, that seems to be "strange" so they can believe the idea that your doing it for a reason and so they can wrap their minds around the idea that this must be what works otherwise why would you be doing it?

If you do that with total confidence and transmission of faith it will work and positive intent towards the client then its my experience that it will work.

Its also the experience of my many thousands of students around the world, read "They Call it Hypnosis" by Robert A Baker and I am certain you will see where I am coming from here.

The only other techniques I use other than my Complete Mind Therapy approach (see earlier link) are Dr. Angle Escuderos Noeistherapy for Pain Control (but still combined with my CMT Session) and well that's it....

Oh occasionally (and only occasionally) I will use my version of  Tom Silvers "Emotion Replacement Therapy" usually only when working with high end clients (Drug, Alchohol, Sex addictions etc) but that is it...

Other than the principles of Magic Tricks and Mentalism I use in order to be able to be 100% Confident that the client (whoever they are) will FEEL and BELIEVE that they have been hypnotised and that something magical has happened for them,

The thing being that when they truly FEEL that they have been hypnotised and have seen and felt some positive and Tangiable evidence that their mind has made things work (which the tricks do give them) then the psychological changes required are GUARANTEED to take place and remain solid for them thus they are then cured...

Hope that helps

Jonathan 

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on December 4, 2011 at 2:39pm

@ Susan,

 

I agree with Jonathan. The state of the art is inside the hypnotist and not in the inductions or techniques that they use. When we give a "client" a reason to believe that he or she can reach their goals and the client expects to reach their goals before they start their hypnotic ritual in a "I Can reach my goals - I Want to reach my goals - I expect to reach my goals!" mind-set they are very likely to reach their goal regardless of the induction or technique...

Permalink Reply by Susan French on December 4, 2011 at 4:29pm

Well thanks guys but that still doesn't answer my question.  I DON'T agree that you arrive at a magical mystery thought and then let the words flow from your mouth out of your own subconscious and expect the placebo effect to do it.  I do that all the time.  Sometimes it works.  Often it doesn't.  I find that I do better when I have a sense of A=accomplishes B and Z=accomplishes Y, sense of what pieces to use for structure. 

In fact, I just had a very resistant client claim that he "wasn't hypnotized" and that I was speaking gibberish because I used Ericksonian wording.  It was distressing.  At least he said it out loud to my face.

I see it it being used in all written scripts.  Some are free floating, stream of consciousness and others are made up of what I'm calling "macro's" or "patterns".

I'll take a look at the books you recommended though I doubt that they will answer my question.  Thanks for trying though.  

What I'll do is dissect a couple of scripts for these patterns and maybe you'll see what I'm asking.  

I'm sorry but I just don't buy that I can charge someone $xxx to give them shaman-like mumbo-jumbo with a beatific small and expect them to get better.  I believe that the answer is inside the client but as the hypnotherapist it seems incumbent upon me to figure out the shortest and most effective way from beginning to end.

In fact, John C's smoking intervention has a number of distinct "macro's" or "patterns."  I'll go find it and try to put it here.  John C, if you understand what I mean, can you jump in?

So does Roy Hunter's Parts Therapy.

And why have I paid a zillion dollars for a zillion books and trainings if all I have to do is have an expectation that their subconscious mind will fill in the blanks???

Please, Michael, I don't want to piss you off and I don't want to fight. The shaman/placebo effect doesn't work for me.  I can't just pretend to know something I don't and get into a persuasive "I'm right, just put all your faith in my wonderful abilities and you'll get better" and expect it to work.  If that is the only guidance, then I should quit right now.  But thank you for trying.  I get very distressed when I ask a specific question and it feels as if I'm getting a a complete and total non-answer.

It feels smug, arrogant and completely unuseful to me.  It climbs up my back like a razor.

If there was an answer there that I'm not getting besides "believe that it's so and it will be" I'll try to hear it.  At the same time, I'm going to go dissect John's C's smoking thing and see if you can understand my question.

Susan

Thanks for trying but that is precisely the answer that had defeated me for ten years.

Permalink Reply by Susan French on December 4, 2011 at 4:37pm

Ok Jonathan.  I see that you have something there that looks like an answer to my question.  I'll go read it and let you know if answers what I'm asking.  I'm going to post here as well and see how it all falls.

Thank you.

Susan

Permalink Reply by Melissa Tiers on December 4, 2011 at 4:41pm

Hi Susan, I like to think of change work as a dance. I have no idea what I'm going to say or do until the client makes a move. Depending on how they state the problem, the gestures they use, the metaphors involved, will dictate the move I make in response. How they respond to that will, once again show me what to do next, and the dance continues.

If as they are talking about a their fear, they move their hands in a subtle (or not so subtle) circle, I know to jump in and have them reverse it. If they put their fist to their gut, I might ask them what happens if they allow that fist to begin to loosen up and relax, this might lead me into a metaphoric intervention. If the client looks up and subtly backs up, I might ask them to push the picture they are making in their mind back and shrink it, and see what that does.

If they give me a sentence like "on the one hand I want to do this and on the other, I want to do that, I will lead them directly into a visual squash type parts technique.

Sometimes they gesture to their chest when describing a feeling and I might have them drop to the center and tell me what's underneath, and drop through that, what's underneath? and find a core state to bring up the layers for change.

If they say "I just keep telling my self, I'll never be good enough" I might drop them into trance and have them manipulate  and neutralize the internal dialogue.

If they can't seem to get out of their head I might slide them into peripheral vision to quiet the mind and work in that state for a while....

I think the client is the only script anyone should ever use. They have everything you need to guide them into the change they want. Get them as curious as you are about their inner strategies and change becomes an interesting exploration for them.

-Melissa

www.melissatiers.com

Permalink Reply by Susan French on December 4, 2011 at 4:52pm

@Jonathan

Ok, I went back and found the scripts and "macro's you use.  I get the idea of how you set about telling the client that they have the answers with a lot of ego strengthening and "feel-good' suggestions.  It looks like it contains a very, very valuable outline for telling the client that they have the answer and somewhat how to find it.  I like it.  It didn't answer my specific questions particularly but I like it and will use it as a model.  Thank you.

I appreciate the way you outlined a few macro's as I had asked for.  Those are helpful.  I'm going to post what I found on my blog so it doesn't clutter up this particular thread.  The link for the audio has expired.  The audio is not as important to me because I was looking for the "logic" and the rationale, the prescription perhaps, might be a better way to express it. http://www.4shared.com/document/f_Pze2jC/Script_For_Complete_Mind_T... 

I'm curious about your CMT and would like to see it.  I couldn't find it.  If someone can point me to it, that would be great.

Now to go find John C's smoking and Kelley Woods smoking scripts and dissect them, perhaps my question about specifics will be clearer.

Thanks.

Susan

Permalink Reply by Susan French on December 4, 2011 at 5:03pm

Being a musician, I could say to other muscians, when you get it all in your head and fingers, you can just play. Rock out!  Or I could teach them theory, give them some basic structure, include some logical rationales and then say: play.

I wish I had been but I was never a musician who could "just get it by ear."  I had to learn it the hard way.  There were some musicians who could just listen and "get it."  Not very many (my son was one of those) but a few.  Most musicians I know who made it have structure: a lot of it.

I guess my request here comes from the fact that yes, I can run from my subconscious and weave beautiful and effective therapuetic poetry which works sometimes for some people.  It sure as hell doesn't work on smokers, addicts,  drinkers, overeaters or people who are in pain.  Not for most of them.  

If that kind of free style works for some of you, God Bless you. Maybe over the years you have internalized some great "riffs" and it seems to come from nowhere.  While I CAN do that some of the time, it's not enough for me.  I'm just not comfortable being more salesperson than knowledgeable therapist.

I'm sure glad surgeon's don't operate that way, at least not until they've internalize all of the "riffs" and rationale's.  I'm certain that a surgeon who has done a thousand surgeries can be in a "zone."  I get that. But I'm appreciative of the fact that at one time, the surgeon had structure and rationale.

I'm here to learn about those for whom my therapeutic poetry DOESN'T work.  I don't mean to sound snarky but I'm frustrated.  I learned my scales, my chords and my "patterns."  In my view, knowledge is never wasted.

Susan

Permalink Reply by Susan French on December 4, 2011 at 5:55pm

Here is the link to the examples that I've found in my files if anyone else besides me sees something important in this discussion.  http://www.hypnothoughts.com/profiles/blogs/some-examples-of-hypnos...

The only other thing I'll say about my feelings when I ask a question and someone gives me what seems to me to be a glib or brush-off answer, subtext: if you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't ask such a stupid question.  It feels to me like it felt when I went to a voice teacher who opened up her arms and proclaimed: "open your mouth and SING"  The point being that if I could do that, I wouldn't be there.  The point proven by the fact that after ten years of learning, I COULD do just that, but I couldn't when she proclaimed that.  Needless to say, I never went back.

Permalink Reply by Roy Hunter on December 4, 2011 at 10:46pm

I work on the concept (learned from Charles Tebbetts in 1983) that there are FOUR primary hypnotherapy objectives for obtaining lasting results...

1. Suggestion and imagery (scripts, etc.)

2. Discover the cause(s)

3. Release (of both the cause and any emotions surrounding the cause)

4. Subconscious relearning (or reprogramming)

If a person is highly motivated with minimal subconscious resistance, suggestion and imagery often result in profound change. When suggestion and imagery (and/or scripts) are not enough, the late Tebbetts said that we have to accomplish all four objectives, or the subconscious may either return the same problem or another one that is either as bad or worse than the one suggested away.

The client centered approach is to fit the technique to the client rather than vice versa; so I oppose the EXCLUSIVE use of any one technique (even parts therapy).

Clients who have inner conflicts usually experience parts therapy. Clients with phobias experience regression to discover and release the core cause. When it is unclear which technique is best, I use ideomotor response questions to ask about the seven basic categories of client problems. (This is discussed in both THE ART OF HYPNOTHERAPY and HYPNOSIS FOR INNER CONFLICT RESOLUTION.) Based on the categories of "yes" responses, I have a good clue to either use regression, parts therapy, or refer the client elsewhere.

While NLP and/or EFT can be used, the success will have a better chance of being permanent if the core cause is discovered and released from the subconsciou. Some EFT practitioners use EFT at the end of parts therapy or regression, because the subconscious is FAR more receptive of any technique for change once the cause of the problem no longer is a burden to the inner mind.

This model has worked for me since 1983, and I hope it works for you.

Note that the destination is more important than the journey; so if you prefer techniques other than regression and/or parts therapy, just use the four hypnotherapy objectives as a guiding light over a series of sessions to help you know how to obtain lasting results. Ask yourself: "Which of the four hypnotherapy objectives can this technique fulfill?"

Roy Hunter
www.royhunter.com

 

 

Permalink Reply by Graham Old on December 5, 2011 at 2:37am

Susan,

I can appreciate that you find some of the answers you have received unhelpful. It seems that you want a very specific answer to a very specific question. But what if the question isn't a a useful one? I'm not sure it's necessary to assume that you are receiving a glib or brush-off answer. It's certainly not necessary to think that anyone is saying you are asking a 'stupid' question.

If I've understood correctly, you're asking for specific techniques for specific issues. So, for example, use John C's system for smoking, use swish for nail-biting, etc. Is that correct?

If so - and I really don't mean this as a brush-off - I wonder if you really think that's how human beings work. It would be handy if we could come up with something like that, but do you feel that you function in such a predictable / mechanistic way?

Personally, I'm glad for my training in Ericksonian hypnotherapy. And it's a heck of a lot more than speaking gibberish. Yet, I do proceed in sessions without a script and it could seem like the words are just flowing out. However, I have frameworks that I work towards and some 'meta-models' and themes I follow. Yet, I don't think that's what you're after either, is it?

So, maybe you could clarify exactly what you're asking? Is it 'what specific techniques do you use for which specific issues?'?

Permalink Reply by Melissa Tiers on December 5, 2011 at 3:27am

Susan,

After re-reading your initial inquiry, I think I have a better idea of what your asking. In my earlier answer I described some cues that lead me to know which of the techniques to utilize. I described certain gestures, predicates or metaphors that a client might use and how I use that to lead me to a technique.

But I think you also want a more meta type of "where do you intend to go with these techniques" kind of answer, so maybe this will help clarify. I think there is an underlying structure of change. It has four parts and can be discovered under all the successful change interventions. It is a structure I am always aware of, so I know where I have to go. I'll copy and paste from an interview that I posted that describes it.

 

IACT: Can you expound on the basic structure to change and the four step pattern?

 

MT: Sure can. If you imagine that when your client is in their problem, awash with the negative emotions of it, it's like they're wearing a particular pair of glasses that colors everything they can think of. If they are depressed then everything they think of from their past and future is depressing because the brain sorts by emotional/biochemical states. So they say things like, "nothing ever goes right" or "everything in my life is a mess" or "nobody loves me"

 

They use these universal language patterns because, when trapped in a negative emotional state, it's all they can see. Before we can help them to come to a solution, heal, or make any positive changes, we have to help them out of that state. That's step two of the meta pattern which I'm referring to as the four step process to change. The first was accessing the problem state so we can see what that looks like as well as find the trigger that makes the thing go automatic.

 

Now we have an infinite amount of ways to do step two, the dissociation. Think of it like having them take off the crappy colored glasses they were wearing. Whether we use a relaxed state like trance to dissociate, have them watch a movie of the problem scene or have them pull out the kinesthetic (like taking the spin out of the body)  we are inviting them to step out of the problem state. Dissociation is like removing the emotion from the memory. That's just a few examples of how we get to step two.

 

Step three is to have them access a resource state. To help them into how they want to feel in that situation. If you tried to do this without the dissociation of step two they would have a much harder time coming up with a resource or a solution because they would still be stuck in the negative emotional state, so every solution would be clouded by that.

 

We all do this pattern in many different ways. If you think of a typical hypnosis session we get them into trance( a neutral dissociated state) and give positive  suggestions or visualizations to get them into a wonderful state. Or if you were regressing to cause, it's when you bring in the resources to comfort, forgive or even just inform the younger  you. In the backward spin we put in laughter, EFT we tap it out. So step three is to put on a very different pair of glasses with which the client can see other options, opportunities and solutions.

 

Then in step four we bring the resource to the trigger and collapse it. So, from a state of strength, confidence, forgiveness or any other more positive state we have them look at the problem. Then we condition it in by looping it around many times till the very thing that caused the problem, now becomes the automatic trigger for the resource state. Then we future pace to a bunch of other examples of where, in the past, they might have had a problem, but now can feel the better state come up. This allows the change to spread and go generative.

 

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on December 5, 2011 at 4:20am

Susan,

Those who use my stuff know that I present process based interventions, and the operational concepts that are utilized by it, as well as an explanation of how and why each part of the intervention process works.

This is specifically so the hypnotists that use it can use the understanding to adapt the interventions to their individual clients and make it their own.

I feel that this is one of the reasons that my interventions are so well liked and so successful with so many different hypnotists.

While I do list the specifics of what is used, why it is used, and how it works for each part of the process in my interventions, not all believe in a process based application of hypnosis, or that it is even possible to actually understand how and why hypnosis techniques work.

Lots of hypnotists like to refer to themselves as "Chefs", taking pride in throwing things together to create something beautiful. The problem I have with that is the exact one that you present here...being able to pass on the information. 

"I use a pinch of Salt when it is needed, a dash of Rosemary, and a sprinkling of Oregano...my experience tells me how much and when to use it..that's why I am a Chef!...I step beyond a recipe."

Conversely, I have been referred to by some not as a Chef, but as a "Recipe Book". Recipes are just a step by step process that yield a definable and repeatable result.

I am growing fonder of that expression. Follow the recipe steps, know what they do and why and how they do it, and then you have a basis for creating a chef.

To answer your question as to what are the macros that some of the veteran hypnotists use, I am fairly sure some of them don't even know.

They don't think of what they do as being a process, let alone break down what they are using because it will change with each client, and they let the information from each client determine the tact they will use.

This is indeed a very effective way of doing business...but as you have noticed...not one that can be easily and understandably shared with others.

John

Susan French said:

I'm sorry but I just don't buy that I can charge someone $xxx to give them shaman-like mumbo-jumbo with a beatific small and expect them to get better.  I believe that the answer is inside the client but as the hypnotherapist it seems incumbent upon me to figure out the shortest and most effective way from beginning to end.

In fact, John C's smoking intervention has a number of distinct "macro's" or "patterns."  I'll go find it and try to put it here.  John C, if you understand what I mean, can you jump in?

Susan

Thanks for trying but that is precisely the answer that had defeated me for ten years.

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