Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

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Permalink Reply by Michelle Braun on April 12, 2012 at 2:13am

First I'd recommend the person seek out a complementary medical practitioner for the thyroid replacement assistance. They may also look into natural metabolism boosters (foods and supplements). A really good source for that is droz.com or drozfans.com Of course, the person should discuss any changes with their physician.

THis person does not have what is normally described as chronic fatigue, which is an autoimmune dysfunction. The thyroid regulates metabolism in the body and lacking one is good cause for fatigue, but generally most people get some relief from prescription replacement.

You (and they if unfamiliar) might take a look at the websites below for information and referrals to physicians.

http://thyroid.about.com/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/2009/12/29/the-agonies-of-bein...

http://doctorapsley.com/default.aspx

In order for hypnosis to help this person, they must truly believe it will. One thing I'd definitely do is create a dial where they can turn up their energy levels. First turn it down so they understand they can control it and then turn it up slowly themselves over a period of time. Increasing it too rapidly might be counterproductive due to their depleted energy levels. Physical activity must pickup in a correlating amount to increase stamina, too. Of course, be sure you are working with their physician!

And reframe, reframe, reframe!

edited to add: It is extremely imperative that this person eats only whole, natural, foods and as much organic as possible. Nutrient density is their friend! Sugar and junk food is not.

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Permalink Reply by Eric G. Schneider on April 12, 2012 at 7:46am

I read this post with a great deal of interest and agree that they should be working with a "functional" medical practioner to help them with replacement where ever possible and while there are some things that can and could be done, I don't want to overlook the aspect of hypnotherapy that can help a person adjust to the new normal.  Our lives seem to be caught up with peak performance and there are times that it is all we can do to get out of bed.  Helping people be at less odds with their conditions and issues can do a great deal in helping them conserve their energy.

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Permalink Reply by Michelle Braun on April 12, 2012 at 8:46am

For physical activity, tai chi or light stretching exercises to start are best as they work the body but do not tend to tire one out so much. Yoga would likely be too strenuous at this point-  but only if the person has not been active though.

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Permalink Reply by Lorraine Gleeson on April 14, 2012 at 6:50am

Hi I have worked with 2 clients with CFS very successfully and at the moment one of my students is working with her friend and they have all had really good results.  Like your client they had been through the medical treatment with little success. The techniques I used was first dealing with causes.  One client it suited her using a dial and turning the dial up and using regression.  Bandler way going back to a time when they were full of energy, feeling good, and building on the very good memories, spinning all the good feelings, sounds, pictures.  Another client we went inside and he described it like a black dark heavy feeling.  We changed it and changed it until it became (his words) Like a pudding bowl all burnt and stuck, so I added washing up liquid we cleaned it.  Working with the clients pictures thought and changing seems to be very good.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on April 14, 2012 at 9:14am

I want to bring every one back to Michelle's excellent post-

Even though the client's main symptom is chronic fatigue --  the client is not suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome. The client is suffering from fatigue that is directly related to the stress of having his or her thyroid gland removed.

I agree with Michelle, she or he is best served by recommending working with a metabolic physician or practitioner of medical nutrition... You can offer an effective supplement -- stress management and increasing her coping skills and abilities will conserve energy and lift her spirits.

Michael E.

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Permalink Reply by jenny gilmore on April 14, 2012 at 11:15am

Hi,  I am a chronic fatigue specialist. Some great practical hypnotic suggestions from Loraine.  The 2 conditions could coexist - I to would ensure that the client has her thyroid effectively managed - hypothyroidism is a differential diagnosis for CFS, and medical specialists sometimes don't get the meds right.  If it is CFS do read up about - you could easily break rapport or even promote a relapse if you suggest increasing her level of  activity one that is to high.    it

The cause of CFS/ME is not universally accepted as an autoimmune.  There are alot of practitioners working very successfully from models which see CFS/ME as rooted in the fight and flight following a trigger event eg a viral infection.  (See for example the model that I work from at lightningprocess.com).  Very controversial doesn't suit all clients, can create amazing changes. I spoke about issues about working with client group at the EFT gathering in York UK if that is of interest it's at http://www.eftevents.com/presenters2012.htm 
Michael Ellner said:

I want to bring every one back to Michelle's excellent post-

Even though the client's main symptom is chronic fatigue --  the client is not suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome. The client is suffering from fatigue that is directly related to the stress of having his or her thyroid gland removed.

I agree with Michelle, she or he is best served by recommending working with a metabolic physician or practitioner of medical nutrition... You can offer an effective supplement -- stress management and increasing her coping skills and abilities will conserve energy and lift her spirits.

Michael E.

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Permalink Reply by Michelle Braun on April 16, 2012 at 10:36am

Hi Jenny,

When working with clients regardless of presenting issue, I do not see any benefit in using a set protocol due to individualism. Having a very big toolbox is a hypnotist's/nlp-er's biggest asset. Knowing how to use all the tools and all variables and permutations is the greatest benefit for our clients. All work is done for the client with them setting limits especially in these types of issues. All control, ultimately, is with the client in all issues.Life is baby steps after all.

I also do not believe tagging on another label to a person is in their highest benefit. Maybe they want one to feel that they are still "normal" in some way- in the greater sense of belonging. The label just serves as a means of focusing education for the practitioner. Often times, the label provides the sufferer' a means to add onto their mental anguish which follows the physical. I'd rather a person not define their being/essence as a condition, because they can transcend any condition to some extent and our mission is to make that as great as possible. They do not have to be or identify with their suffering. That is not empowering! I address symptoms and behavior instead, which is where reframing is involved.

I am confused by your statements:"The cause of CFS/ME is not universally accepted as an autoimmune.  There are alot of practitioners working very successfully from models which see CFS/ME as rooted in the fight and flight following a trigger event eg a viral infection." Would not a bodily response to a viral element be an immune or autoimmune response?

Invoking the stress response as the cause in any case is very simplistic, imho, since psychneuroimmunology has shown, many, many bodily reactions to stress hormones are related to the immune system as well as to various branches of the nervous system - including the autonomic. I think we have quite a while before anyone can say without doubt the cause, relationship or the definitive pathway between the brain, stress response, the ANS, immune system and health issues. The science has come a long way since the publication of Psychoneuroimmunology in 1981, and the future promise some really exciting things!

Congratulations on achieving your successes! I still say there is more than one way to skin a cat!

Best wishes

Michelle
"diagnosed" in 1986, but I do not acknowledge it; works for me!

jenny gilmore said:

Hi,  I am a chronic fatigue specialist. Some great practical hypnotic suggestions from Loraine.  The 2 conditions could coexist - I to would ensure that the client has her thyroid effectively managed - hypothyroidism is a differential diagnosis for CFS, and medical specialists sometimes don't get the meds right.  If it is CFS do read up about - you could easily break rapport or even promote a relapse if you suggest increasing her level of  activity one that is to high.    it

The cause of CFS/ME is not universally accepted as an autoimmune.  There are alot of practitioners working very successfully from models which see CFS/ME as rooted in the fight and flight following a trigger event eg a viral infection.  (See for example the model that I work from at lightningprocess.com).  Very controversial doesn't suit all clients, can create amazing changes. I spoke about issues about working with client group at the EFT gathering in York UK if that is of interest it's at http://www.eftevents.com/presenters2012.htm 
Michael Ellner said:

I want to bring every one back to Michelle's excellent post-

Even though the client's main symptom is chronic fatigue --  the client is not suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome. The client is suffering from fatigue that is directly related to the stress of having his or her thyroid gland removed.

I agree with Michelle, she or he is best served by recommending working with a metabolic physician or practitioner of medical nutrition... You can offer an effective supplement -- stress management and increasing her coping skills and abilities will conserve energy and lift her spirits.

Michael E.

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Permalink Reply by Michelle Braun on April 16, 2012 at 10:54am

Mainly, my big thing is we spend our whole life dealing with negative self-talk and limiting beliefs. We certainly do not need more added on!

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on April 16, 2012 at 11:18am

Hi Michelle

A disease is called an autoimmune disease when it's caused by the body's own immune response against its own cells and tissues. Chronic inflammation is common example of too much of a good thing. The initial response is protective and helpful but chronic inflammation causes a wide range of problems.

@ Jenny

Millions of people have one or more of the many viruses that have been said to cause CFS from EBV through HHV6 and HHV8 without the slightest symptoms of CFS and millions of people with CFS test negative for all those viruses.

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Permalink Reply by jenny gilmore on April 16, 2012 at 12:53pm

Hi 

Thank you for your messages - some really useful stuff.  Just to clarify - the model is that for example an original trigger event, eg a virus causes very reasonable responses which set off the fight and flight. The fight and flight mechanism is designed to run for short periods, not for extended periods which causes very severe physical issues in some people - in this case fatigue, muscle problems, immune problems etc.  The kind of thing that causes a problem is the very reasonable frustration of going to the doctor, expecting to get an answer and recovery and then not changing very much.  I am simplifying here - for further references see the link on my previous post.  

Very Best Wishes 

Jenny

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Permalink Reply by kathryn monahan sheetz on April 16, 2012 at 5:53pm

Never had a client with CFS. But I myself am Hypothyroid, it took a bit to get the meds right. 

 But the even then still  had bouts of extreme fatigue.   As it turns out, I also had  what was diagnosed as a sugar "sucrose" allergy.  It only became apparent when I happened to go on the "old Weight watcher's diet" which was really the old ADA diet.  At that time, before all the points and counting  there was No Sucrose allowed.  Pretty simple.  None. 

  I did not stray from the diet.  Lost the weight and then began maintenance, which meant we added back foods one at a time.  As soon as any item that had sugar in was eaten. Even High fructose corn syrup became a problem.  I crashed into fog of lethargy and other bad symptoms which , even IF I stayed off sugar would go on for about 21/2 days.  And like an addict the only relief,. albeit, temporary was another blast of sugar.  and down I would spiral into extreme fatigue....like walking in quick sand.

Sugar is every where.  luck and observations on the part of my regular doctor, myself and my husband helped  put the puzzle together.( even Mayo's didn't catch it)  Now years later I found wheat to have a similar response.  But this time we knew it had to be food related. and went looking for the culprit.

Long story---don't discount the possibility of a food allergy that doesn't act like a food allergy. Perhaps the body can tell the subconscious if there is anything to be checked out.

regards, Kathy sheetz RN BSN CH

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