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Client told by her doctor hypnotherapy is a rip-off...she believes it.! Your advice please??
Hello everyone,
just when I think I've experienced it all, along comes a new challenge. So, I would appreciate your suggestions as to the wording/script I can use to difuse this situation.
A stop smoking client (61 year old women well indoctrinated in westerm medical model) explained that she wanted to stop smoking because her health was in serious jeopardy (by-pass surgery coming up). I asked her to get a doctor's referral slip just to be on the safe side.
She saw her specialist the day before our session to learn how severe her situation was and then she requested the referral slip from him for stop smoking hypnotherapy. He put out his hand and implied that she may as well just throw her money into his hand and he went on to say she needed to stop smoking, but he didn't believe in hypnosis and she was wasting her money! He refused to give her the referral slip.
She called me just before the session and told me of her doctor's reaction to her request for a referral slip and could she have the stop smoking program anyway. I decided to go ahead with it, but during intake it became clear she had bought into her doctor's comment, which suggested that she was stupid to put her money into something that didn't work.
During intake/pre-talk she asked what would happen if her doctor was right about hypnosis...she asked if I was sure hypnosis could work for her!! Just as I started to induce her, she asked if I was sure it would work. No matter what I said, she seemed to doubt it.
She clearly puts a lot of store by her doctor's opinion and she was in a hypnotic state when he was talking with her because she went there to listen to bad news anyway.
Really not sure how I can handle this without giving her the impression I am taking a position against her doctor's beliefs. I already gave her the facts about hypnosis, it's success rate, etc during intake, and in session I suggested she would ignore all negative comments and naysayers, etc. , but I think I need to something more.
About 10 minutes after I awakened her, she said 'maybe hypnosis doesn't work because I don't think I was hypnotized! I'm pretty sure I feel an urge for a cigarette'! I advised her that she was indeed well hypnotized and pointed to the eye catelpsy, etc.
I've certainly never experienced a resistance like this caused by a primary care doctor's behavior and I'm very disappointed to say the least. If it was anybody but a doctor she seems to really trust, I'd have no problem being direct about it, but this is a different kettle of fish.
Thanks a bunch :)
Grace
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on -
Grace,
There are a few skeptical medical doctors out there for sure, as well as most psychiatrists and psychologists. I get around all of this doubting behavior by providing a bit of proof before the stop smoking session begins.
Everyone knows a lot of different ways that people have used to stop smoking. Unfortunately, they just didn't work for them personally, which is why they are in front of you. (In this case, even AFTER what the doctor said).
One of the things I ask the stop smoking client to bring to the session, is as big a craving for a cigarette as they can bring me. Which means they shouldn't smoke for at least four hours before they show up.
The reason I ask them to do this is because I tell them within 30 seconds of them walking into my office, I will remove that craving so they don't want a cigarette AT ALL! If I can do that, there should be little doubt in their mind that they are in the right place, doing the right thing. If I can't do it, then they are free to turn right around and walk out of my office without wasting any time or money and can go buy patches or something.
Oh yeah, just a bit of NLP to turn their craving into an object (how big is it, what color is it, etc) and then getting rid of the object (push it off a cliff, across the room, etc.) and the craving will be gone. This gets rid of the craving for now, your session should get rid of them forever.
I hope this helps you
John
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Permalink Reply by Henxy on -
Did you ask her whether her doctor was a smoking cessation specialist, as you are?!
Did you ask her whether her doctor had been successful in helping her to stop smoking?
I think an issue might lie in your leaning to the doctor to get the approval ('referral slip'), yet when the doctor's beliefs conflicted with your and your client's needs, you disagreed with the doctor's beliefs. Remember, the doctor doesn't know you, and probably knows FA about hypnosis...Ergo, s/he can't viably refer to you. Your client may perceive a sea change in you: one minute you want the doctor's say-so, the next you don't. However unconscious this is, they may see the incongruence in this.
I would stop asking for doctors' approval. You KNOW that smoking aint good for your client. Who needs a doctor to tell them that?! Hypnosis isn't a religion, so it doesn't require people to believe in it. Have more confidence in the benefits of what you offer, and do that for your clients. Asking for a doctor whom you don't know to sanction hypnosis per se, let alone your individual practice makes your client question you and hypnosis unnecessarily. It also increases the gap between HTs and doctors (if you don't ask for their approval, they can't not give it!).
As Nike says; 'Just do it'!
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Permalink Reply by Scott Sandland on -
Let's make it simple Grace-
Show your client the clinical studies, doctors, insurance companies, celebrities, etc. have all shown hypnosis works better than the patch, (etc) for smoking cessation with zero side effects. There are hospitals in the USA that have hypnotists doing stop smoking programs in them.
Put together the package of this information and send it to the doctor as well. There are certain situations in which the doctor is required to explain all options to their patients, and since hypnosis is a recognized and supported modality it is in the doctors, and their patients, best interest to stay abreast of new findings on the efficacy of hypnosis.
Let us know how it goes,
Scott
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Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on -
Thank you John,
my technique is pretty much like yours and it should have assuaged her concerns, but the impact he had on her seems to have been pretty profound. I did all that you suggested, but her doubts are clearly still there. She doesn't know me, but it appears she's seen this specialist for quite a while, and let's face it, he's going to be operating on her soon...
Grace :)
John Cleesattel said:Grace,
There are a few skeptical medical doctors out there for sure, as well as most psychiatrists and psychologists. I get around all of this doubting behavior by providing a bit of proof before the stop smoking session begins.
Everyone knows a lot of different ways that people have used to stop smoking. Unfortunately, they just didn't work for them personally, which is why they are in front of you. (In this case, even AFTER what the doctor said).
One of the things I ask the stop smoking client to bring to the session, is as big a craving for a cigarette as they can bring me. Which means they shouldn't smoke for at least four hours before they show up.
The reason I ask them to do this is because I tell them within 30 seconds of them walking into my office, I will remove that craving so they don't want a cigarette AT ALL! If I can do that, there should be little doubt in their mind that they are in the right place, doing the right thing. If I can't do it, then they are free to turn right around and walk out of my office without wasting any time or money and can go buy patches or something.
Oh yeah, just a bit of NLP to turn their craving into an object (how big is it, what color is it, etc) and then getting rid of the object (push it off a cliff, across the room, etc.) and the craving will be gone. This gets rid of the craving for now, your session should get rid of them forever.
I hope this helps you
John
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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on -
Grace,
I can't actually prove it, but it sounds like this Izzy character is channeling the Spirit of some third-rate 19th century stage hypnotist.
Perhaps even an 18th century stage mesmerist ?!
Be that as it may, it would be prudent of you to steer clear of his "advice" as if it were the plague...!!
LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Izzy Dunne said:Grace:
Your client says," I don't think I was hypnotized." If you truly never want to hear these words again, you must do more than eye catalepsy. You must stick their hand to the wall, and have them look at it as they to get it off. Stick their feet to the floor, and have them try to walk. Give them amnesia for their name, and tell them that their new name is Sally Camelhumper. Give them hallucinations of pink elephants. Give the client so much phenomenon that they are totally convinced that they were indeed hypnotized.
ID
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Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on
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Hi Henxy,
I am in agreement with most of what you say and I usually don't seek a referral for stop smoking clients BUT in this case surgery is impending, she is on major meds, I don't know her at all and my gut tells me it's best to have a doctor's referral. I would be concerned about asking her the questions you suggest like that because that's putting her in the middle at a time when she is already worried enough.
I didn't ask her to get a referral to me specifically for the stop smoking hypnotherapy...I asked her to have her doctor refer her for hypnosis to stop smoking. Also, about the apparent inconsistency in my message ...I didn't just agree to do the session without a referral...I got her story, gave it a few hours digestion and then agreed to it, making it very clear I was not totally comfortable with the situation and explaining that his belief is not founded on fact, etc.
I feel it's in my best interests and the client's best interests to get doctors on-side when I can. That way clients know I'm not a 'fringe' service and I'm building credability with the local medical community. This 'best intention' unfortunately backfired :)
Thanks anyway,
Grace :)
Henxy said:Did you ask her whether her doctor was a smoking cessation specialist, as you are?!
Did you ask her whether her doctor had been successful in helping her to stop smoking?
I think an issue might lie in your leaning to the doctor to get the approval ('referral slip'), yet when the doctor's beliefs conflicted with your and your client's needs, you disagreed with the doctor's beliefs. Remember, the doctor doesn't know you, and probably knows FA about hypnosis...Ergo, s/he can't viably refer to you. Your client may perceive a sea change in you: one minute you want the doctor's say-so, the next you don't. However unconscious this is, they may see the incongruence in this.
I would stop asking for doctors' approval. You KNOW that smoking aint good for your client. Who needs a doctor to tell them that?! Hypnosis isn't a religion, so it doesn't require people to believe in it. Have more confidence in the benefits of what you offer, and do that for your clients. Asking for a doctor whom you don't know to sanction hypnosis per se, let alone your individual practice makes your client question you and hypnosis unnecessarily. It also increases the gap between HTs and doctors (if you don't ask for their approval, they can't not give it!).
As Nike says; 'Just do it'!
-
Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on
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Thanks Scott,
I think your suggestion sits best with me...in fact I'm going to give her the material before my next session with her and explain to her that if she chooses to believe that her doctor's comments and behavior are more reliable and to be trusted over the research and clinical trials indicating that he is incorrect, then she will find it hard to allow herself to heal from the smoking habit. I will ask her to think things through in the face of the facts I've provided and call me when she is ready to quit smoking no matter what others say.
You are right about sending him the material as well...I feel it is unfair of him to attack other professionals, yet still expect us to respect them.
I don't have a 'package' already put together...never had the need. Usually one or two short 'fact' pages were all I needed to use at most. If anyone out there wants to share their 'package' of info I can provide her, I'd sure be grateful for the time saved. :) My direct email is graceplacewellness@gmail.com.
warm regards and thank you Scott and all other colleagues who offered help!
Grace :)
Scott Sandland, C.Ht. said:Let's make it simple Grace-
Show your client the clinical studies, doctors, insurance companies, celebrities, etc. have all shown hypnosis works better than the patch, (etc) for smoking cessation with zero side effects. There are hospitals in the USA that have hypnotists doing stop smoking programs in them.
Put together the package of this information and send it to the doctor as well. There are certain situations in which the doctor is required to explain all options to their patients, and since hypnosis is a recognized and supported modality it is in the doctors, and their patients, best interest to stay abreast of new findings on the efficacy of hypnosis.
Let us know how it goes,
Scott
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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on
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Actually Saul, Izzy's advice (whoever he Iz) is fairly sound. Cal Banyan also suggests the use of more profound convincers in what he teaches. It does make sense.
John
Saul Rosenfeld said:Grace,
I can't actually prove it, but it sounds like this Izzy character is channeling the Spirit of some third-rate 19th century stage hypnotist. Perhaps even an 18th century stage mesmerist ?!
Be that as it may, it would be prudent of you to steer clear of his "advice" as if it were the plague...!!
LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Izzy Dunne said:Grace:
Your client says," I don't think I was hypnotized." If you truly never want to hear these words again, you must do more than eye catalepsy. You must stick their hand to the wall, and have them look at it as they to get it off. Stick their feet to the floor, and have them try to walk. Give them amnesia for their name, and tell them that their new name is Sally Camelhumper. Give them hallucinations of pink elephants. Give the client so much phenomenon that they are totally convinced that they were indeed hypnotized. ID
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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on
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John,
Believe me, I'm WELL aware of this (all too common) attitude!
I happen to be totally against such "convincers", for a NUMBER of reasons, which I couldn't even begin to get into here.
Suffice it to say that- read what Izzy is suggesting she do VERY SLOWLY and VERY CAREFULLY, and then ask yourself how this actually SOUNDS.
While you're at it, ask yourself how this shocking display of the operator's so-called "raw naked POWER" over his (hapless) subjects LOOKS to any and all OBSERVERS.
It might make sense on ONE level, but it is horribly COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE to hypnotism's IMAGE as a NON-threatening, "serious", non-"magical", "therapeutic" tool for HEALING...!
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
John Cleesattel said:Actually Saul, Izzy's advice (whoever he Iz) is fairly sound. Cal Banyan also suggests the use of more profound convincers in what he teaches. It does make sense.
John Saul Rosenfeld said:Grace,
I can't actually prove it, but it sounds like this Izzy character is channeling the Spirit of some third-rate 19th century stage hypnotist. Perhaps even an 18th century stage mesmerist ?! Be that as it may, it would be prudent of you to steer clear of his "advice" as if it were the plague...!! LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Izzy Dunne said:Grace:
Your client says," I don't think I was hypnotized." If you truly never want to hear these words again, you must do more than eye catalepsy. You must stick their hand to the wall, and have them look at it as they to get it off. Stick their feet to the floor, and have them try to walk. Give them amnesia for their name, and tell them that their new name is Sally Camelhumper. Give them hallucinations of pink elephants. Give the client so much phenomenon that they are totally convinced that they were indeed hypnotized. ID
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Permalink Reply by Pattie Freeman CH.t, MST on -
Well, the Doctor didn't help much with encouraging her to stop smoking. Once the clients have doubts then it usually difficult to have the client change their mind or give hypnosis a chance to work on them. I would have let her reschedule the appt. if she was in doubt till later...So what happened after the session did she stop smoking?
I would then get the Hypnotherapy info. to the Doctor maybe he isn't aware of what it can do and offer him a complimentary session so he can experenice it first hand,, It sounds like he had a situation with someone so he is using that as a example.
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Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on
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Saul,
no worries, I always err on the side of ensuring my clients feel they are totally in control when they see me. In this case, even if I was into showmanship at the expense of the client's dignity and sense of control, which I am not, this would be a really bad time to show it. She is afraid of her impending surgery, she is very ill (obviously) and she's been told by the man who's going to operate on her soon that she's an easy 'mark' for scamming hypnotists (aka 'stupid'). Do I really need to convince her now that I can also take control of her behavior to the point where I can make her stick to a wall?
She has lost enough control and power in her life already; the last thing I'm going to do is relieve her of her sense of control over her level of relaxation and behavior when with me.
Honestly, what I need are just the right words to build into my hypnosis session (right after deepening), to dissolve her belief in what her doctor said in a way that doesn't sound as though I'm directly calling his judgment into question (a suggestion she would no doubt reject outright). If someone has just the right words, I'd sure love to hear about them.
In the meantime, I'll give her a 'package' of info and send one to her doctor as Scott suggested and then give her the space to decide for herself who and what she'll trust to help her.
Thanks everyone,
Grace :)
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Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on
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Patti:
re: offer him a complimentary session so he can experenice it first hand
I'm not sure I could resist the natural urge to make him stick to the wall permanently if I got an opportunity to give him an experience 'first hand'. LOL LOL
Grace :)
Pattie Freeman Ch.t, said:Well, the Doctor didn't help much with encouraging her to stop smoking. Once the clients have doubts then it usually difficult to have the client change their mind or give hypnosis a chance to work on them. I would have let her reschedule the appt. if she was in doubt till later...So what happened after the session did she stop smoking?
I would then get the Hypnotherapy info. to the Doctor maybe he isn't aware of what it can do and offer him a complimentary session so he can experenice it first hand,, It sounds like he had a situation with someone so he is using that as a example.
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