Client told by her doctor hypnotherapy is a rip-off...she believes it.! Your advice please??

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on January 30, 2010 at 9:05am

I'm going to back Bruce up on this. You can't help every client, Grace, and you're not responsible for her doctor's willful ignorance. That's all on him. Do not allow this client's health and life to become more important to you than it is to her. You will never, ever win with that one.

You can't help everyone in the world (so don't try). Pick the "low-hanging fruit," the prospects who want to change, believe they can change, have the motivation to change, and have the money to pay you to change. That's the definition of a "qualified prospect." Instead of finding new low-hanging-fruit clients, you've spent hours on Hypnothoughts getting advice on how to deal with someone who you probably can't help. Other, motivated people are not benefiting from your work because you're throwing your pearls before swine.

I'm facing a similar dilemma in my marketing and PR work. I've had a client for over a year who consistently doubts my expertise, knowledge, experience, price structure, etc., etc. This client pays me less than every other client I have, and is constantly trying to add time-consuming new elements to jobs without paying for them. The client is extremely demanding. A couple of days ago, the client sent me an email telling me they got a lead on a new gig because when you do a Google search on that profession in that city, the client comes up #1 in search results. The client basically said they were astonished I made that happen. I've been telling the client for months that's what I was going to do, and the cilent admitted that they never ever believed me when I said it! It was a compliment wrapped around an insult, kinda.

And here's the kicker, even after the email praising me to high heaven, in the very next email the client went right back to questioning everything I say.

Gaaahhh! I need to take my own advice. :)

Kathleen Hanover
"The Pretty Goodest Public Relations, 
Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet"

Bruce Taylor C.Ht said:

In my opinion you can do a couple different things.

One is not work with her and move on to someone that would be motivated for change. You want to work with individuals that give the best oportunity for success. A client's expectation can cause their failure which can and probably will reflect on your reputation because they will tell others of their experience. Most of my clients are from word of mouth. I do not think that clients that have failed in their attempt will help find me more clients. Sometimes when you let your client know this and decide not to work with them until they are ready builds rapport and in time helps with their expectation which in turn helps their success.

The second is to work with the doctor in helping him to see that hypnosis can be a benefit. Give him and his staff a free demonstration. Careful to not hurt his ego as he has spent many years in his studies to become a doctor. This can help if that doctor would be possibly working with your many of your customer base and can help or hurt your progress. Doctors that are on board can be a great source for clients. Doctors can also if they understand because of their position effect their clients by what they tell them. One of the ways to influence the mind is from soemone in an athorative position giving advice.

The above is just my opinion and as you will have many I hope you find your direction. Happy hypnosis and let us know what happens.

Bruce Taylor

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Permalink Reply by Bruce Taylor C.Ht on January 30, 2010 at 10:04am

Well said Kathleen.

Too many potential clients that want change and have the expectancy they need to be successful. Should not fight a possible losing battle. As you said you cannot help everyone. Unless you are not easily discouraged and like to work harder than easier on possible impossible clients, then go for it. It will make you feel as if you are taking one step forward and two steps back.

I have had clients that I had to decline my services and have had them at a later date be in the right place to reconsider and then help them.

Bruce Taylor

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Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on January 30, 2010 at 10:40am

Kathleen and Bruce,
you are both right in my view. I'm the type that always has to be sure I don't want someone to heal more than they do themselves or I end up de-energized over the process. I've decided she has to take responsibility for her life and I don't need to work with people whose comments and behavior suggest they don't trust me or my profession. She needs to go elsewhere. I have lots of clients who have been unsure of the process and needed reassurance, but none who have given me the impression that because their doctor said so, I might be a scammer. Obviously she needs to find a modality her doctor will be satisfied with.

She can read or not read what I send her and she can come back when she's sure she wants to heal and stop smoking regardless what anybody says...or not!

I'm glad for the learning experience and thank you all for sharing.

Grace :)

Bruce Taylor C.Ht said:

Well said Kathleen.

Too many potential clients that want change and have the expectancy they need to be successful. Should not fight a possible losing battle. As you said you cannot help everyone. Unless you are not easily discouraged and like to work harder than easier on possible impossible clients, then go for it. It will make you feel as if you are taking one step forward and two steps back.

I have had clients that I had to decline my services and have had them at a later date be in the right place to reconsider and then help them.

Bruce Taylor

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Permalink Reply by Mark Craig on January 30, 2010 at 1:05pm

Great approach.

My take, as a clinician in a heart and lung hospital, whenever I talk to heart attack and bypass surgery patients about smoking cessation, is to offer patches as expected, and also to suggest that there are other alternatives out there such as hypnotherapy. ( I am a hypnotherapist). I also remind patients that the 1st and biggest step is to DECIDE to STOP. Once they have done this they will not have any cravings. I then let them know the scientific evidence from articles in the Lancet (medical paper) that show hypnosis / CBT is more effective than nicotine replacement.

For me, the key is to get COMMITMENT on the DECISION during the pre-talk.
The rest just helps them to be relaxed about that decision.

My point is that if you can get that commitment, and you have massive leverage because of the imminent surgery, you will be successful whether your client goes into deep trance or a light trance, or even no trance at all.
As far as eductating the dr for future reference, just have your client give a testimonial.

Mark



Saul Rosenfeld said:

Grace,
Good to know you're on the right track!!
As for those suggestions...you might try saying something to this effect:

And as you let yourself drift deeper and deeper and become ever MORE relaxed with each and every exhalation, you might begin to suddenly realize that not everyone has YET been given the unique opportunity to experience this same level of profound relaxation, of comfort and wellbeing. EVEN many HEALTH care providers have not yet ALLOWED THEMSELVES to ENJOY the profound COMFORT, and the DEEP, DEEP relaxation, that is such a NATURAL part of our lives (etc., etc.).

Saul

www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com

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Permalink Reply by Bill Logsdon on February 1, 2010 at 6:31am

Hi Grace,

I think you are on the right track and I agree with Scott’s advice on putting the packet together. However be careful of your wording as you speak with her.

“…explain to her that if she chooses to believe that her doctor's comments and behavior are more reliable and to be trusted over the research and clinical trials indicating that he is incorrect, then she will find it hard to allow herself to heal from the smoking habit.”

The way you phrased this statement I took it as a negative suggestion though I am sure you did not meant it that way. Regardless of what you think about her doctor it would not be in the lady’s best interest to undermine her belief in him in any way just before surgery. That in itself could have a negative impact on her recovery.

Though I believe the doctor was actively discouraging her and should have remained neutral if he does not have knowledge or experience in the area of hypnosis. I have found it invaluable to explain to my clients that as the speak with others about using hypnosis they are going to meet those with negative opinions without any true knowledge.

In fact I will warn clients that if they ask a friend without any hypnosis experience whether they should use hypnosis etc. they are likely to get a negative reply and the reason is simple. It is safer for their friend to give a safe negative response than to say yes, because if they say yes and it doesn’t work out then they are partly responsible.

Here are some words or an idea that may prove helpful if you have a session with her.

“Now I am sure you are a very wise woman and have experienced a great many things in life, but even so, would it be fare to say there are things in the world you have very little knowledge of?

I wonder have you ever experienced a situation when you thought you knew something about a certain subject or situation and later discovered your thoughts and opinion were wrong?”

(NOTE: I would get positive ideomotor responses to both questions before proceeding.)

Would it be fare to say doctors are very intelligent people and are very often over worked? With the time they have available it would be impossible for them to keep up to date on everything. Do you agree?

Now just as you have been misinformed in the past, I wonder is it possible your doctor could mean well but be misinformed about hypnosis” (Wait for positive response)

(Note: If she is a religious woman I would add some suggestions here where Jesus speaks of the power of belief, etc. If she is not I would find something else to show her she can accomplish anything she set her mind to and now how hypnosis is going to assist her to set her. Then I would go into your normal script.

Basically what I am doing here is allowing her subconscious to accept the doctor could be wrong without attacking his credibility. She can accept this suggestion because she just accepted her own ability to be wrong or mistaken.)

Hope this helps,

Bill

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Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on February 1, 2010 at 6:58am

Thank you Bill,
I like your approach and yes, I am very careful as to how I communicate with my clients. I take special care not to appear to undermine their current treatment or doctors because that would be undermining the placebo effect if they believed wholeheartedly in their current treatments.

I've emailed her, attached 6 excellent articles and explained to her that this is about self-healing from her unwanted habit and she needs to be able to trust me and this guiding process if it's going to help her achieve her goal. I told her I would refund her money (minus minimal fee for time already spent) if she still felt skepticism.

I feel ok with this action. I feel that she needs to feel empowered and the best avenue to achieving this is for me to put the info before her and let her make her own mind up. She may realize that this is contrary to how her doctor treats her, which is by suggesting she is stupid to enterain an alternative modality yet providing no useful information to back it up. I think it's more professional of me to just put the info before her (as I had during intake) and let her take responsibility for her own decisions as opposed to trying to 'convince' her. The info is there, all she needs to do is 'convince' herself, be committed to herself and her decision...absent this, I'm wasting my time.

Again thank you Bill and all who have provided thoughtful, respectful suggestions.

warm regards,
Grace :)

Bill Logsdon said:

Hi Grace,

I think you are on the right track and I agree with Scott’s advice on putting the packet together. However be careful of your wording as you speak with her.

“…explain to her that if she chooses to believe that her doctor's comments and behavior are more reliable and to be trusted over the research and clinical trials indicating that he is incorrect, then she will find it hard to allow herself to heal from the smoking habit.”

The way you phrased this statement I took it as a negative suggestion though I am sure you did not meant it that way. Regardless of what you think about her doctor it would not be in the lady’s best interest to undermine her belief in him in any way just before surgery. That in itself could have a negative impact on her recovery.

Though I believe the doctor was actively discouraging her and should have remained neutral if he does not have knowledge or experience in the area of hypnosis. I have found it invaluable to explain to my clients that as the speak with others about using hypnosis they are going to meet those with negative opinions without any true knowledge.

In fact I will warn clients that if they ask a friend without any hypnosis experience whether they should use hypnosis etc. they are likely to get a negative reply and the reason is simple. It is safer for their friend to give a safe negative response than to say yes, because if they say yes and it doesn’t work out then they are partly responsible.

Here are some words or an idea that may prove helpful if you have a session with her.

“Now I am sure you are a very wise woman and have experienced a great many things in life, but even so, would it be fare to say there are things in the world you have very little knowledge of?

I wonder have you ever experienced a situation when you thought you knew something about a certain subject or situation and later discovered your thoughts and opinion were wrong?”

(NOTE: I would get positive ideomotor responses to both questions before proceeding.)

Would it be fare to say doctors are very intelligent people and are very often over worked? With the time they have available it would be impossible for them to keep up to date on everything. Do you agree?

Now just as you have been misinformed in the past, I wonder is it possible your doctor could mean well but be misinformed about hypnosis” (Wait for positive response)

(Note: If she is a religious woman I would add some suggestions here where Jesus speaks of the power of belief, etc. If she is not I would find something else to show her she can accomplish anything she set her mind to and now how hypnosis is going to assist her to set her. Then I would go into your normal script.

Basically what I am doing here is allowing her subconscious to accept the doctor could be wrong without attacking his credibility. She can accept this suggestion because she just accepted her own ability to be wrong or mistaken.)

Hope this helps,

Bill

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on February 1, 2010 at 7:11am

You can't have any kind of meaningful dialogue with anyone who's mind is already made up. Present the clinical studies as Scott suggested in hopes that it might get through but I think it's totally wasted effort to try to convince anybody of anything when their mind is closed.

Susan

ps: "I guess time will tell" is good feint when you want to choke someone for their stupidity.

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on February 1, 2010 at 11:41pm

Grace Joubarne said:

I told her I would refund her money (minus minimal fee for time already spent) if she still felt skepticism.

I feel ok with this action. I feel that she needs to feel empowered and the best avenue to achieving this is for me to put the info before her and let her make her own mind up.

Hi Grace,

That's a laudable action, but I fear you're taking responsibility for the client's indecisiveness and belief system. By offering that get out clause, you may be setting up HT for failure; as the client has less need for it to work. Will the dr be offering a refund, minus a minimal fee if the CABG goes less than perfectly? Will he assume responsibility if the patient continues to, or re-starts to smoke?

I think we should value what we do more; and realise that some people don't want to be helped; or don't realise that they need particular help. Kathleen's advice on the low-hanging fruit seems spot-on to me.

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Permalink Reply by Brian Halliday on February 3, 2010 at 3:42pm

This situation may have been a no goer from the start. However the following may useful for those in the future.

the first thing to remember is that many Doctors will be threatened by any therapist outide the medical world. Their power base is determined by prescribing drugs. Simple hypnosis sessions can take away that need in some cases almost immediately. Doctors want to get patients into a "system" its how they make their living.

Also they have the advantage of social conditioning and authority society gives them.

Therefore instead of asking someone who is ready to go into pre-op sutuation to get a refferal - ask them for their doctors details so that YOU can contact their doctor for a refferal.

Write to the doctor explain that your client wishes to stop smoking because of an impending operation. And that you want to know if there are any medical reasons why they should not recieve deep relaxation therapy that will not only assist them stop smoking but help prepare them for surgery. Release a lot of fear tension etc. You can also attach any credible research around the benefits of relaxation or hypnosis and surgery if you have it.

By asking for his permission you are massaging his ego and giving him a place of importance. you are also working with him on the pre operation as a whole which is now a bigger deal.

You then go on to say you will keep him informed through reports to the progress made and would be happy to recieve any input from the Doctor.

Your chances of him agreeing to this will now be MUCH greater because you have shown him respect and wish to work with him to better your clients situation. You have also morphed some of his authority and credibility that society gives on to you making your job easier with the client. A lot of the work has now been done for you.

You then proceed and keep the doctor informed of the progress through regular reports etc.

Not only does this give you more chance to build relationships with doctors you give them real reasons to start referring his patients to you when you prove to get good results.

Brian

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Permalink Reply by Jackie Spencer on February 3, 2010 at 4:16pm

Excellent response, Brian.

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Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on February 3, 2010 at 4:23pm

Hi Brian,
it was no-goer from the start.

I sent her 6 easy-to-read articles and suggested that if she still felt skeptical then I would refund her money. She wrote and said she read a couple of them and would like the partial refund. I feel relieved, actually. I feel I made the right decisions and took the right approach.

If I had gone ahead without at least asking for her doctor's referral and something had gone wrong with the surgery, I would have been blamed...for sure a doctor with that kind of attitude would have found every opportunity to make hypnotherapy look bad. I had her write a note on her consent form that she had asked him for a referral but he refused because he felt hypnosis was a scam...so I could cover myself.

If I had continued to try to convince her, I would have been wasting my time because clearly she could have researched hypnosis herself and even when it was put on her plate she could not bother to read it through.

I had a sense from the moment she called that she might not be entirely into the stop smoking idea, but when I canvassed and explained that it only works if the client is truly willing, she insisted that it was her idea and desire, even if she 'enjoyed' a cigarette.

Ahhh, but doesn't the Serenity Prayer summarize it beautifully:
God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and the Wisdom to know the difference.

I have the wisdom, I just need it to kick in faster LOL. It was a great learning experience.

Thank you all!
Grace:)

Brian Halliday said:

This situation may have been a no goer from the start. However the following may useful for those in the future.

the first thing to remember is that many Doctors will be threatened by any therapist outide the medical world. Their power base is determined by prescribing drugs. Simple hypnosis sessions can take away that need in some cases almost immediately. Doctors want to get patients into a "system" its how they make their living.

Also they have the advantage of social conditioning and authority society gives them.

Therefore instead of asking someone who is ready to go into pre-op sutuation to get a refferal - ask them for their doctors details so that YOU can contact their doctor for a refferal.

Write to the doctor explain that your client wishes to stop smoking because of an impending operation. And that you want to know if there are any medical reasons why they should not recieve deep relaxation therapy that will not only assist them stop smoking but help prepare them for surgery. Release a lot of fear tension etc. You can also attach any credible research around the benefits of relaxation or hypnosis and surgery if you have it.

By asking for his permission you are massaging his ego and giving him a place of importance. you are also working with him on the pre operation as a whole which is now a bigger deal.

You then go on to say you will keep him informed through reports to the progress made and would be happy to recieve any input from the Doctor.

Your chances of him agreeing to this will now be MUCH greater because you have shown him respect and wish to work with him to better your clients situation. You have also morphed some of his authority and credibility that society gives on to you making your job easier with the client. A lot of the work has now been done for you.

You then proceed and keep the doctor informed of the progress through regular reports etc.

Not only does this give you more chance to build relationships with doctors you give them real reasons to start referring his patients to you when you prove to get good results.

Brian

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Brian Halliday on February 5, 2010 at 4:23pm

Grace

With the greatest of respect your opening line "sent her 6 easy-to-read articles and suggested that if she still felt skeptical then I would refund her money" is stacking things against you rigt from the start. First of "if you still feel skeptical" is a command to feel skeptical...and "I will give you your money back" is reinforcement for being Skeptical. sending her off to read articles after this to try and "persuade" her is also setting up a challenge.

If someone came to me I would assume they are genuinely wanting to stop or they need to prove to a worried partner hypnosis doesn't work because they don't really want to stop. They are being nagged.

So rather than try and prove hypnosis works or not I would focus on all the reasons why she MUST stop.

What would happen if you don't stop? And if that happened who would it affect. How many times have you tried to stop? and how come you haven't managed? How do you feel about the operation? What has your doctor told you about the importance of stoping smoking?

Now if you do this correctly then she will be focused on her problem not whether hypnosis will work for her or not. She will also be experiencing some emotional pain. If she then tells you what her doctor says it easy to continue like

" well the thing is its not really whether hypnosis works or not its about stopping you smoking and getting you ready for this op and thats what I am more concerned about in the last two years we have worked with x amount of clients with xyz stoping them smoking and I can tell you for sure if you are serious we can help you BUT IT IS YOU THAT MUST STOP but we can help you. And if for some reason YOU can't stop we will give you your money back". I would also be upfront and say it doesn't work for everybody but thatis the same as any treatment even from your doctor. However if by chance you don't STOP COMPLETELY and FEEL BETTER ABOUT GOING INTO SURGERY we will give you your money back. I would also explain the importance of relaxation and reduced stress and the healing processes after her op. I wouldn't focus just on the smoking but the whole episode she is about to embark upon. Notice the above commands as opposed to yours. plus there is no challenge. If you also get the refferal you can take the challenge away from the doctor.

Never get into a challenge situation never look over anxious to get the business put the onus on her. Also start collecting as many testimonials from clients as you can get showing solid results. For get about articles. testimonials are far more effective.

But also contact their doctor as described in the previous post..You may be surprised at their responses. If you massage their egos and are not a threat. You will also standout from all the other therapists he talks badly of! In his eyes you will becoming over as professional and someone he can trust. Plus if you get the results with his patient he will know about it. And if they don't other doctors will. But don't rule this out till you have tried at least 6 or 7 times. I think you will be surprised.

Grace Joubarne said:

Hi Brian,
it was no-goer from the start.

I sent her 6 easy-to-read articles and suggested that if she still felt skeptical then I would refund her money. She wrote and said she read a couple of them and would like the partial refund. I feel relieved, actually. I feel I made the right decisions and took the right approach.

If I had gone ahead without at least asking for her doctor's referral and something had gone wrong with the surgery, I would have been blamed...for sure a doctor with that kind of attitude would have found every opportunity to make hypnotherapy look bad. I had her write a note on her consent form that she had asked him for a referral but he refused because he felt hypnosis was a scam...so I could cover myself.

If I had continued to try to convince her, I would have been wasting my time because clearly she could have researched hypnosis herself and even when it was put on her plate she could not bother to read it through.

I had a sense from the moment she called that she might not be entirely into the stop smoking idea, but when I canvassed and explained that it only works if the client is truly willing, she insisted that it was her idea and desire, even if she 'enjoyed' a cigarette.

Ahhh, but doesn't the Serenity Prayer summarize it beautifully:
God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and the Wisdom to know the difference.

I have the wisdom, I just need it to kick in faster LOL. It was a great learning experience.

Thank you all!
Grace:)

Brian Halliday said:

This situation may have been a no goer from the start. However the following may useful for those in the future.

the first thing to remember is that many Doctors will be threatened by any therapist outide the medical world. Their power base is determined by prescribing drugs. Simple hypnosis sessions can take away that need in some cases almost immediately. Doctors want to get patients into a "system" its how they make their living.

Also they have the advantage of social conditioning and authority society gives them.

Therefore instead of asking someone who is ready to go into pre-op sutuation to get a refferal - ask them for their doctors details so that YOU can contact their doctor for a refferal.

Write to the doctor explain that your client wishes to stop smoking because of an impending operation. And that you want to know if there are any medical reasons why they should not recieve deep relaxation therapy that will not only assist them stop smoking but help prepare them for surgery. Release a lot of fear tension etc. You can also attach any credible research around the benefits of relaxation or hypnosis and surgery if you have it.

By asking for his permission you are massaging his ego and giving him a place of importance. you are also working with him on the pre operation as a whole which is now a bigger deal.

You then go on to say you will keep him informed through reports to the progress made and would be happy to recieve any input from the Doctor.

Your chances of him agreeing to this will now be MUCH greater because you have shown him respect and wish to work with him to better your clients situation. You have also morphed some of his authority and credibility that society gives on to you making your job easier with the client. A lot of the work has now been done for you.

You then proceed and keep the doctor informed of the progress through regular reports etc.

Not only does this give you more chance to build relationships with doctors you give them real reasons to start referring his patients to you when you prove to get good results.

Brian

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