the Free Hypnosis Social Network
Credentialing Hypnosis Professionals-
Grace Joubarne asked me to pretend that I have an opportunity to bring a minimum standard of training both of practitioners and of instructors to our profession.
I am hereby inviting any one who wants to play to imagine that you have all the money that you need. Use all of your wisdom and experience and tell us how you would go about it.
Just so you know, I am having a hard time answering Grace's question. I do not teach basic certification trainings because I rather not teach, "All hypnosis is self-hypnosis", etc.
I think of my advanced medical NLP and hypnosis trainings as a safe place to de-brief newly certified and/or seasoned hypnotists and NLPers...
I find this to be a very challenging question because
I meet people with extensive training who are not very good hypnotists and others who are very good hypnotists without any formal training. I do not believe that "therapy" is the most effective way to help people using hypnosis and I view the fundamental requirements for practicing and teaching hypnosis to be competency in practicing and teaching hypnosis.
In my opinion, Jon Chase is very effective in helping his clients achieve rapid and lasting results with symbolic hypnosis because he is confident in his ability to do so. I'd bet Jon will agree that his biggest challenge as a educator would be making it reasonable for his students to believe that creating change can be that quick and easy to do...
Before closing, I consider the models and techniques that hypnotists are using to be symbolic tools for helping people change. Mastery is in using them effectively. I am not sure how to translate that into basic requirements for practicing or teaching hypnosis.
I am going to think about answering Grace's question and report back, in the mean time - What do you think?
Michael E.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on -
Okay Michael ... what is the difference between credentialing and certification?
AND TO THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE REGULATION OF THE HYPNOTHERAPY PROFESSION:
Being unfamilar with the political structure outside the State of California, I cannot address the possibilities of what could or could not happen in other states or even in other parts of the world for that matter, but all one has to do is read and review the various laws and regulations here in California, legislation that was funded by special interest and then passed by our legislators, in order to get even a vague idea of what would happen to the "hypnotherapist" should professional licensing be pursued through legislation. Being licensed certainly sounds great, however it is doubtful (without a strong amount of lobbying and political backing) that anyone would get a backing from the medical or psychological associations for licensing as a hypnotherapist merely based on a certification course.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=bpc&co...
In CA, Business & Professions Code 2902 defines what a licensed psychologist is and what it takes to be considered accredited, and there are a number of sections depicting the educational requirement --- none of which would even begin to accept a certification course of any length as acceptable.
B&P 2903 defines who may practice psychology, with psychology essentially defined as collecting "a fee" for rendering services - ODD HOW IT IS LEGALLY ACCEPTABLE TO PRACTICE PSYCHOLOGY AS LONG AS YOU DON'T COLLECT A "FEE". They even go to great lengths to explain what "collecting a fee" is.
Section 2903 goes on to describe what is the "practice of psychology" and clearly denotes "hypnosis" as an act of practicing psychology. Psychotherapy is defined as a professional relationship to assist a person acquire greater human effectiveness or modify feelings, conditions, attitudes, and behavior ... blah blah blah.
What is interesting is 2908 B&P lists the exceptions and allows other recognized professional groups "licensed to practice" in CA, such as physicians, clinical social workers, marriage therapists, registered nurses, optometrists and attorneys (attorneys ???) --- or other persons utilizing hypnotic techniques "by referral" to use hypnosis
Through the continued efforts of Gil Boyne and many others, CA passed 2053.6 of the B&P, written into the laws that govern physicians. Essentially that legislation allows for "alternative and/or complementary" services to be performed, and is how hypnotherapists in CA practice without being in violation of the law.
Gil fought hard to get us the ability to operate as professionals, and I for one would hate to see that all undone because we merely want to be "licensed". What we do may not necessarily be accepted by the medical and psychological industry as a whole, and will most likely never be accepted ... taking on licensure with the idea you will be accepted as an equal is a slippery slope, and could come back to haunt you.
Just food for thought.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on -
Hi Dennis-
THIS IS NOT A PRO - REGULATION DISCUSSION -
I am in no way, shape or form calling for government or even self-regulaion of our practices -- I don't have Gil's extensive experience in defending our right to practice -- I do have direct experience -- I was active in NJ's defense of certified hypnos and I was active in defending alternative practitioners in New York-- We are one the same page about regulation-
Now to answer your question:
There is no difference between credentialing and certification for the purposes of this discussion -- Please share what you would consider the essential skills and abilities needed before You would recommend another hypnosis professional or teacher --
Warmest regards,
Michael E.
Dennis Atkinson said:Okay Michael ... what is the difference between credentialing and certification?
AND TO THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE REGULATION OF THE HYPNOTHERAPY PROFESSION: Being unfamilar with the political structure outside the State of California, I cannot address the possibilities of what could or could not happen in other states or even in other parts of the world for that matter, but all one has to do is read and review the various laws and regulations here in California, legislation that was funded by special interest and then passed by our legislators, in order to get even a vague idea of what would happen to the "hypnotherapist" should professional licensing be pursued through legislation. Being licensed certainly sounds great, however it is doubtful (without a strong amount of lobbying and political backing) that anyone would get a backing from the medical or psychological associations for licensing as a hypnotherapist merely based on a certification course.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=bpc&co...
In CA, Business & Professions Code 2902 defines what a licensed psychologist is and what it takes to be considered accredited, and there are a number of sections depicting the educational requirement --- none of which would even begin to accept a certification course of any length as acceptable.
B&P 2903 defines who may practice psychology, with psychology essentially defined as collecting "a fee" for rendering services - ODD HOW IT IS LEGALLY ACCEPTABLE TO PRACTICE PSYCHOLOGY AS LONG AS YOU DON'T COLLECT A "FEE". They even go to great lengths to explain what "collecting a fee" is.
Section 2903 goes on to describe what is the "practice of psychology" and clearly denotes "hypnosis" as an act of practicing psychology. Psychotherapy is defined as a professional relationship to assist a person acquire greater human effectiveness or modify feelings, conditions, attitudes, and behavior ... blah blah blah.
What is interesting is 2908 B&P lists the exceptions and allows other recognized professional groups "licensed to practice" in CA, such as physicians, clinical social workers, marriage therapists, registered nurses, optometrists and attorneys (attorneys ???) --- or other persons utilizing hypnotic techniques "by referral" to use hypnosis
Through the continued efforts of Gil Boyne and many others, CA passed 2053.6 of the B&P, written into the laws that govern physicians. Essentially that legislation allows for "alternative and/or complementary" services to be performed, and is how hypnotherapists in CA practice without being in violation of the law.
Gil fought hard to get us the ability to operate as professionals, and I for one would hate to see that all undone because we merely want to be "licensed". What we do may not necessarily be accepted by the medical and psychological industry as a whole, and will most likely never be accepted ... taking on licensure with the idea you will be accepted as an equal is a slippery slope, and could come back to haunt you.
Just food for thought.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Hirsh on -
Ian,
You asked "Has anybody ever met anyone who failed a hypno or NLP course?"
My answer is no but it made me wonder, how would you decide if a person has failed? What kind of testing would you like to see used to determine if a person is good enough to go out and hang a shingle and call themselves a hypnotherapist? I know of courses that make you take a written test and some make you demonstrate your abilities either via in class demonstrations or by submitting audio or video tapes before granting certifications.
~Jack
Ian Jay said:Michael
...minimum standard of training both of practitioners and of instructors to our profession.
Were I tasked to do this, the first question I would have to resolve is - for what purpose(s).
To unify the training and produce a consistent program that ensures quality?
To stop students getting ripped of by hypno certificate mill type training courses? (Has anybody ever met anyone who failed a hypno or NLP course?)
To raise the standard of hypnotherapy?
To demonstrate to the legislature that the industry is cleaning up its act?
To reassure the public?
etc,
After I had listed all the purposes, I would then prioritise them.
A starting point, perhaps?
IJ
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on
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Michael wrote: Now to answer your question:
There is no difference between credentialing and certification for the purposes of this discussion -- Please share what you would consider the essential skills and abilities needed before You would recommend another hypnosis professional or teacher --
My response: I am finding that the longer I practice, the more I realize how little I know ... I guess when you translate that statement, education never stops, and one has to continually learn new tools if they want to function and be successful.
I believe those schools supported by ACHE would be a good minimum criteria for certification. I do not believe anyone can learn what they need to properly assist their client in a 100 hour course ... and based on what I now know, I would suggest any hypnosis certification course should be a minimum of 300 hours with some type of an internship where you actually work with an instructor. Experience has actually been my best instructor.
I have to take a deep breath when I see postings on this site from certified hypnotists asking "how to" questions for very basic situations ... things that one would have easily learned had they invested in something other than a weekend certification class.
Hope this helps.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on
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It does help-- Thanks Dennis
FYI -- I used to go to NGH trainings in NY and NJ and offer free mentoring to grads who would donate their time and energy to help people with HIV/AIDS fears and conditions in my Center-- A hospital purchased the medical practice that provide the space for my center and we were asked to move and the program went south--
Ian--
I only know of two situations where certification was denied -- I know of 2 hypnos who were denied certification as Hypnobirthing practitioners - They were allowed to retake the training at no additional cost and were certified after passing the exam
I would not hesitate to deny certification in one of my advanced certification trainings if I felt the person didn't deserve it -- I have felt there was room for improvement with some of the students but I felt confident that they would improve as they continued to practice...
Thanks for sharing Jack - I am thinking that perhaps having to pass a basic written exam and the ability to do a 15 presentation on hypnosis with demonstrations of hypnotic phenom?
Dennis Atkinson said:Michael wrote: Now to answer your question:
There is no difference between credentialing and certification for the purposes of this discussion -- Please share what you would consider the essential skills and abilities needed before You would recommend another hypnosis professional or teacher --
My response: I am finding that the longer I practice, the more I realize how little I know ... I guess when you translate that statement, education never stops, and one has to continually learn new tools if they want to function and be successful.
I believe those schools supported by ACHE would be a good minimum criteria for certification. I do not believe anyone can learn what they need to properly assist their client in a 100 hour course ... and based on what I now know, I would suggest any hypnosis certification course should be a minimum of 300 hours with some type of an internship where you actually work with an instructor. Experience has actually been my best instructor.
I have to take a deep breath when I see postings on this site from certified hypnotists asking "how to" questions for very basic situations ... things that one would have easily learned had they invested in something other than a weekend certification class.
Hope this helps.
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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on -
The way I would do it, is the way I do it now. I teach them how and why it all works, then have them create an induction using what they have learned and use it to successfully hypnotize someone. Then have them explain why they used what they used, and what each part did.
If they can do that, then they are a hypnotist that understand hypnosis, and knows how to hypnotize those that have problems being hypnotized by others.
Trance solutions are taught the same way, using their understanding of hypnosis as a baseline to expand on, so there is never a doubt on what tools to use for a given issue.
If you have that, you have mastery. Then all you lack is experience doing it.
John
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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on -
I have failed a certification student. It was a lady who was also licensed as a social worker (don't ask me how) but by the end of the last day I told here she simply wasn't able to demostrate the techniques I had taught, and I refunded her money and wished her well...
You know, I think a lot of people mistake certification for the end of training.
A certification course is only one step in the process.
I certify licensed metnal health professional after one weekend. What does that mean? It means they can hypnotize a person and use trance to begin changework, integrating it with existing cleint care.
With mental health profesionals they already have assesment skills, listening skills, understand abreaction, understand the structure of a session, and so many of the things that are taught in a 100 hour program are redundant.
I really don't think 20 hours, 100 hours, 1000 hours of training means anything.
What I think means something are the skills taught, the expectation off the untility of those skills, and a plan for further education established.
Nobody who is serious about hypnosis takes a class and then starts working and never gets more education. Almost any of us who are serious, took our first class, and now realize it's real value was in giving us a foundation for our further education.
My certificates could be piled to the ceiling. I imagine Ellner has the same pile, as do most.
When I certify someone, I mean they have the ability to hypnotize someone and use it in a productive manor consistent with thier experience and client needs. I encourage baby steps and further education, and using any course as a foundation for further learning.
My students are rarely the "I am a garbage man with a GED and now want something more lucrative so I will take a course in hypnosis and start a business". I suppose those folks are out there- and people who market to them. And I suppose they are woefully prepared upon completion of any intital program for full-time independent practice, even if it is 300 or 500 hours. I also imagine that these people quickly realize they have limitations as a newcommer and go to conventions, participate in hypnosummits, read book, get DVD's etc. or they quit.
how do you define successful training?
Is it only those ready for independent practice without ever having to ask for help, knowing how to handle every situation correctly?
I don't think that is even expected of Medical school grads....
I like the values of the Society of Experiential Trance. Certification is not based on hours, but on demonstrated skills.
For some that may be quick, and for others a much longer period of time.
But for anyone who really decides to be a hypnotist, the initial certification class is merely the beginning.
Or if I am wrong lets here it! Tell me if you have any of you taken ONE certification class, entered practice and then never read a book, watched a DVD. gone to a convention, taken an additional class or learned anything else?
Everyone seems so concerned that someone will graduate a program and never learn anything else for that point on. I really doubt that is the case.
In fact I would say 90% of those who take a certification class, never go on to practice hypnosis in any professional capacity, so for the vast majority, it is a moot point.
and the 10% that do then go on to be life-long learners of hypnosis..
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Permalink Reply by Scott Sandland on -
I'd like to see somebody actually play the game that Grace/Michael proposed. It's a great intellectual exercise for all of us.
In addition to all the hypnosis stuff (that I hope other people will outline since I'm in a rush) I think a minimum standard class would need sections on:
-When to refer out
-Legal issues
-Ethics
I'd like to see people write up the topics like regression vs direct suggestion (etc) of the classic hypnosis stuff. I think if we are talking about professional training, people should leave knowing all that it takes to act like a responsible professional. The points I made are left out of far too many classes, forcing us to learn it on our own (sometimes the hard way).
That's it for me,
Scott
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Permalink Reply by Reg Blackwood - The Quicknotist on -
Great topic Michael,
I've heard Jon Chase say he uses Hypnosis to teach Hypnosis. Then it becomes "installation" not teaching.
And I can tell you he's not alone in that quest.
Reg
http://quicknotist.com/
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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Westley on -
Dennis Atkinson said:
I have to take a deep breath when I see postings on this site from certified hypnotists asking "how to" questions for very basic situations ... things that one would have easily learned had they invested in something other than a weekend certification class.
As a newcomer to hypnotherapy, the above concern is also a concern of mine. Seeing credentialed practitioners sharing unusual/difficult cases is one thing, but the simpler how-to questions bother me at a deeper level. Something's not right about that.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on
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Hey Reg --
Hypnothoughts.com makes it possible to discover the "Wave" is larger than we imagined -- Yes!
Jon and the Instructors of the National Federation of NLP - are on the same page-
We use NLP teach NLP --
Thanks for the kind words..
Michael E.
Reg Blackwood - The Quicknotist said:Great topic Michael,
I've heard Jon Chase say he uses Hypnosis to teach Hypnosis. Then it becomes "installation" not teaching.
And I can tell you he's not alone in that quest.
Reg
http://quicknotist.com/
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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on
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Scott,
I was at a lecture Maurine Banyan did in Las Vegas on dressing professional and representingyourself professionally. I was amazed at the grumpling from the masses as they exited; everyone shuffled out wearing flip-flops and horizontal stripes, or goatee's and pinky rings with rainbow suspenders on their pot bellys, and said she was arrogant for even talking down to them like that. Funny thing was, at that convention, she was about the only person I agreed with the whole time!
Scott Sandland, C.Ht. said:I'd like to see somebody actually play the game that Grace/Michael proposed. It's a great intellectual exercise for all of us.
In addition to all the hypnosis stuff (that I hope other people will outline since I'm in a rush) I think a minimum standard class would need sections on:
-When to refer out
-Legal issues
-Ethics
I'd like to see people write up the topics like regression vs direct suggestion (etc) of the classic hypnosis stuff. I think if we are talking about professional training, people should leave knowing all that it takes to act like a responsible professional. The points I made are left out of far too many classes, forcing us to learn it on our own (sometimes the hard way).
That's it for me,
Scott
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