the Free Hypnosis Social Network
Credentialing Hypnosis Professionals-
Grace Joubarne asked me to pretend that I have an opportunity to bring a minimum standard of training both of practitioners and of instructors to our profession.
I am hereby inviting any one who wants to play to imagine that you have all the money that you need. Use all of your wisdom and experience and tell us how you would go about it.
Just so you know, I am having a hard time answering Grace's question. I do not teach basic certification trainings because I rather not teach, "All hypnosis is self-hypnosis", etc.
I think of my advanced medical NLP and hypnosis trainings as a safe place to de-brief newly certified and/or seasoned hypnotists and NLPers...
I find this to be a very challenging question because
I meet people with extensive training who are not very good hypnotists and others who are very good hypnotists without any formal training. I do not believe that "therapy" is the most effective way to help people using hypnosis and I view the fundamental requirements for practicing and teaching hypnosis to be competency in practicing and teaching hypnosis.
In my opinion, Jon Chase is very effective in helping his clients achieve rapid and lasting results with symbolic hypnosis because he is confident in his ability to do so. I'd bet Jon will agree that his biggest challenge as a educator would be making it reasonable for his students to believe that creating change can be that quick and easy to do...
Before closing, I consider the models and techniques that hypnotists are using to be symbolic tools for helping people change. Mastery is in using them effectively. I am not sure how to translate that into basic requirements for practicing or teaching hypnosis.
I am going to think about answering Grace's question and report back, in the mean time - What do you think?
Michael E.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Richard Clark MFT on
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Ian,
The most cogent point I can decipher from this post is: "leave all hypnosis to the village grandmothers."
Surely you meant to say something more?
Richard
Ian Jay said:The village grandmother who 'charms' away a few warts is a great neighbour. The misguided hypno student who has been led to believe, for instance, that a 700 USD home multi-video course will empower them to, for instance, regress to the ISE and solve all problems - is dangerous.
We all know that these courses are being sold today. Yet, we all politely ignore them as if they did not exist.
Having a degree in Psychology counts for little, here. And I suspect that having a degree in Hypno will have about the same value (with exceptions). It is not an academic discipline in practical terms.
My thoughts .....
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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Westley on -
Ian Jay said:The village grandmother who 'charms' away a few warts is a great neighbour.
All hypnosis aside, the "village grandmother" is who I'd like to be...
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on -
Richard writes: Perhaps we might need to better define the scope of practice differentiation you're making between Hypnosis Professional and HypnoTherapist. I have my ideas yet a very regularly see Hypnotists displaying little insight into the concept.
My response: My comments are not directed at Richard personally, only at this particular comment which I have seen time and time again on a variety of forums, expressed in many different ways and most commonly by those in a licenced professional counseling capacity.
I am confused by the hang-up with the use of word THERAPY, THERAPIST, and THERAPEUTIC.
Therapy is defined as the practice of using one's training and abilities in application of a healing and/or curative manner, such as the treatment of illness or disability; being of a healing power or quality.
Therapeutic is along the same lines of having healing or curative powers.
Therapist would simply be the specialist who conducts the therapy.
When I see the title "Massage Therapy" or "Massage Therapist", I certainly do not conjure up the mental picture of visiting a "Physical Therapist", and there certainly is no confusion in my mind with the difference between the two. I also don't get a visual picture of a Massage Therapist having a college degree or a PhD.
My feelings are no different when I see the term "Hypnotherapist" or "Hypnotherapy". I certainly do not confuse that with a "Psychologist" or "Psychological Therapy". There is absolutely no confusion in my mind that one pertains to hypnosis, and the other pertains to mental health counseling.
I do not diagnose disease and/or mental disorders; I do not counsel couples on marriage issues; I do not offer professional opinions on one's mental state or disease.
What I do is use my training and skills to facilitate a client to take themself into and out of trance to work on their own particular issue. The mere act of what we do is therapeutic in nature, and I fail to see how or where that constitutes the act of practicing psychology ... so why the confusion with the word therapy?
I won't dispute that education is necessary, as is experience. What I fail to see is where having a college degree makes it "therapeutic" and not having a college degree makes it "consulting" or "technician", etc.
When I researched CA laws pertaining to psychology, what I found very interesting is that according to statute, ANYONE can practice Psychology as long as they do not charge a "fee". What puzzles me is how charging a fee has anything to do with it ... one is either practicing Psychology or they aren't.
And what was actually humorous and interesting is that as long as you are a "licensed attorney" or optomotrist, you can practice hypnosis with absolutely no training, charge a fee, and not be in violation of the Psychology sections. Wonder who dreamed that one up?
Just my two cents.
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Hi Dennis,
First, I don't care even a itty bit about the use of the word Therapist after hypno. I was using Michael's (not someone in a licensed counseling capacity) distinction.
Having said that, for the purposes of this discussion, which the topic of title has little barring on and only serves to sidetrack, it is a useful distinction as Michael expressed it. IMHO.
As you state:
"Therapy is defined as the practice of using one's training and abilities in application of a healing and/or curative manner, such as the treatment of illness or disability; being of a healing power or quality.
" I do not diagnose disease and/or mental disorders; I do not counsel couples on marriage issues; I do not offer professional opinions on one's mental state or disease."
Those are things I would say a HypnoTherapist would do (with appropriate training and consultation) and a summary reading of the archives here will show that many Hypnosis Professionals play semantics and actually do this regularly.
You, Dennis, may actually work with clients illness or disability only with real referral and consultation with their treating professional however I personally know 100s of Hypnosis Professionals that only pay lip service to these principals and mostly have clients sign disclaimers regarding them just to cover their backsides.
Perhaps another thread on "Why I hate people insisting on not calling me a HypnoTherapist" would be in order.
I was just working with a useful distinction that a Hypnosis Professional provided me in this thread.
Richard
Dennis Atkinson said:Richard writes: Perhaps we might need to better define the scope of practice differentiation you're making between Hypnosis Professional and HypnoTherapist. I have my ideas yet a very regularly see Hypnotists displaying little insight into the concept.
My response: My comments are not directed at Richard personally, only at this particular comment which I have seen time and time again on a variety of forums, expressed in many different ways and most commonly by those in a licenced professional counseling capacity.
I am confused by the hang-up with the use of word THERAPY, THERAPIST, and THERAPEUTIC.
Therapy is defined as the practice of using one's training and abilities in application of a healing and/or curative manner, such as the treatment of illness or disability; being of a healing power or quality.
Therapeutic is along the same lines of having healing or curative powers.
Therapist would simply be the specialist who conducts the therapy.
When I see the title "Massage Therapy" or "Massage Therapist", I certainly do not conjure up the mental picture of visiting a "Physical Therapist", and there certainly is no confusion in my mind with the difference between the two. I also don't get a visual picture of a Massage Therapist having a college degree or a PhD.
My feelings are no different when I see the term "Hypnotherapist" or "Hypnotherapy". I certainly do not confuse that with a "Psychologist" or "Psychological Therapy". There is absolutely no confusion in my mind that one pertains to hypnosis, and the other pertains to mental health counseling.
I do not diagnose disease and/or mental disorders; I do not counsel couples on marriage issues; I do not offer professional opinions on one's mental state or disease.
What I do is use my training and skills to facilitate a client to take themself into and out of trance to work on their own particular issue. The mere act of what we do is therapeutic in nature, and I fail to see how or where that constitutes the act of practicing psychology ... so why the confusion with the word therapy?
I won't dispute that education is necessary, as is experience. What I fail to see is where having a college degree makes it "therapeutic" and not having a college degree makes it "consulting" or "technician", etc.
When I researched CA laws pertaining to psychology, what I found very interesting is that according to statute, ANYONE can practice Psychology as long as they do not charge a "fee". What puzzles me is how charging a fee has anything to do with it ... one is either practicing Psychology or they aren't.
And what was actually humorous and interesting is that as long as you are a "licensed attorney" or optomotrist, you can practice hypnosis with absolutely no training, charge a fee, and not be in violation of the Psychology sections. Wonder who dreamed that one up?
Just my two cents.
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Permalink Reply by Scott Sandland on -
Richard C-
I still like your list and wish there was a hypnosis school out there that taught it. Hell, I've been practicing for over ten years and I'd like to enroll!
Michael-
You brought up my point of "why 50 hours?" and I think Richard raised a great point in response. Just because you or he wouldn't require 50 hours doesn't mean a standardization should require it. Maybe 50 is too high, I don't really know. I do know that what you, with your experience and high quality brain, can learn in 5 hours would take other 25.
Does anyone have a different list, with or without the number of hours?
Scott
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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on -
Yo, Dennis
I just put 5 STARS on my fridge under your name -- Thank you!
Ian: That was my grandmother!!!!! -- Hypnosis in my genes!
Richard N-
Thanks for noticing our potbellies, giving me a chance to point out that "Professionals" come in all shapes and sizes. Woe to the consumer who confuses fitness with health and/or competence. And, I agree, looking professional is great advice for professionals who are developing their professional image and identities.
Richard C.
I have always appreciated that the licensed health care professionals who use hypnosis and participate in this type of forum are not the psychologists or psychiatrists that I have a beef with. Part of my challenge is talking about the professionals that I do have a problem with, without insulting those of you reading my post. If you are reading this here/now -- I am NOT talking about you guys and gals! Okay?
Richard C. wrote:
>>
"Perhaps we might need to better define the scope of practice differentiation you're making between Hypnosis Professional and HypnoTherapist. I have my ideas yet a very regularly see Hypnotists displaying little insight into the concept."
Great ideas - Let’s do it -- Please share your ideas about differentiation of our practices.
FYI -I agree some certified hypnotherapists are functioning as de-facto licensed psycho-hypnotherapists. On the other hand, far more licensed "psycho"-therapists are working out side of their scope of practice by "diagnosing" normal behaviors as diseases and disorders and treating normal people with normal issues as mental health patients. How therapeutic is that?
Scott-
Let's say that every one reading this is able to get "it" within about 10 hours of instruction and most hypnosis students need more like up to 50 hours to get "it
Why punish smart people by requiring more time than is necessary for getting "it" Why not simply allow people to pass the exam on demand?
Back to the game--
Warmest regards,
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Permalink Reply by Michael Haifleigh on -
I tend to play/think this in a slightly different way.
What are the key ideas that a “learner” is to take away from each piece of the curriculum?
Are they able to give the idea(s) back in oral or written form?
Can they identify the idea(s) in a given scenario?
Can they create a scenario that clearly communicates the idea(s)?
Hypnosis 101 ------------ -
Hypnosis 200 ------------ -
Hypnosis 300 ------------ -
Law & Ethics ------------ -
Human Anatomy ------- -
Abnormal Psych ------- -
Critical Thinking -------- -
Neuro Psych ------------ -
Human Development -- -
Social Systems -------- -
Cultural Sensitivity ---- -
Michael
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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on -
Michael-
I actually didn't see you at that seminar.... It was the Las Vegas seminar.
And SOME people are just supposed to have pot bellies, goatees and pinky rings... you are one of them. You ALWAYS look professional, you play the role of YOU quite well. The 2-3 times we have met, you always were clean, ironed and your murse matched your clothes... or man bag... or whatever you call it....
On the other hand, a lot of these guys have corn in the goatee, untucked over the potbelly, and need a bath (and new shoes)...
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on -
Hypnosis is an art. You can not regulate art. However because it's an art that impacts lives like no other it should be licensed. I've been saying that in the UK for over 20 years. Stage Hypnotists here have to be licensed and what they do is governed to a degree by that licence and that usually includes that they be fully insured. Hypnotherapists don't even need a bit of paper to practice nor do they have to have insurance.
However when it comes to psychotherapy that should be regulated to the degree that people doing it should not themselves be crazy, depressed or otherwise emotionally challenged. That would probably weed out about 50% of the practitioners. :-)
However the above should be a requirement for Hypnotists and quite possibly NLPers... look at Bandler for a start.
[Footnote] I don't get invited to hypnotherapy club get-togethers or other peoples seminars.... don't know why.... ? :-(
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on
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Richard writes: You, Dennis, may actually work with clients illness or disability only with real referral and consultation with their treating professional however I personally know 100s of Hypnosis Professionals that only pay lip service to these principals and mostly have clients sign disclaimers regarding them just to cover their backsides.
Perhaps another thread on "Why I hate people insisting on not calling me a HypnoTherapist" would be in order.
I was just working with a useful distinction that a Hypnosis Professional provided me in this thread.
My response:
Whenever possible, I do obtain referrals from medical professionals, however this is not always possible ... only because this is a potential "legal" issue, not because it makes any difference with how I will work with the client. As far as my practice as a hypnotist, I see myself merely as someone who assists the client "take themself" into and out of trance ... essentially, I see the client doing the work, not me.
Aside from the legal issue, I do not see the importance of having a written referral from a doctor. It is the choice of the client whether they seek hypnosis or not ... I fail to see where they need a doctors permission.
I do not diagnose ... if a client comes to me and says they have a certain disease, I may ask how they came to that conclusion; but I am certainly not going to second guess them.
As far as "paying lip service" to the principles you speak of, it sounds as if "paying lip service" equates to "you are not qualified" (for whatever reason) because we are not college degreed and licensed.
In all the research I have conducted, I have yet to find one substantiated case where the act of hypnosis caused harm to the client.
As hypnotist we operate within a slippery slope only because legal statutes say we do. The client is choosing our services for a reason, not necessarily because their doctor referred them to us.
Richard Clark MFT said:Hi Dennis,
First, I don't care even a itty bit about the use of the word Therapist after hypno. I was using Michael's (not someone in a licensed counseling capacity) distinction.
Having said that, for the purposes of this discussion, which the topic of title has little barring on and only serves to sidetrack, it is a useful distinction as Michael expressed it. IMHO.
As you state:
"Therapy is defined as the practice of using one's training and abilities in application of a healing and/or curative manner, such as the treatment of illness or disability; being of a healing power or quality.
" I do not diagnose disease and/or mental disorders; I do not counsel couples on marriage issues; I do not offer professional opinions on one's mental state or disease."
Those are things I would say a HypnoTherapist would do (with appropriate training and consultation) and a summary reading of the archives here will show that many Hypnosis Professionals play semantics and actually do this regularly.
You, Dennis, may actually work with clients illness or disability only with real referral and consultation with their treating professional however I personally know 100s of Hypnosis Professionals that only pay lip service to these principals and mostly have clients sign disclaimers regarding them just to cover their backsides.
Perhaps another thread on "Why I hate people insisting on not calling me a HypnoTherapist" would be in order.
I was just working with a useful distinction that a Hypnosis Professional provided me in this thread.
Richard
Dennis Atkinson said:Richard writes: Perhaps we might need to better define the scope of practice differentiation you're making between Hypnosis Professional and HypnoTherapist. I have my ideas yet a very regularly see Hypnotists displaying little insight into the concept.
My response: My comments are not directed at Richard personally, only at this particular comment which I have seen time and time again on a variety of forums, expressed in many different ways and most commonly by those in a licenced professional counseling capacity.
I am confused by the hang-up with the use of word THERAPY, THERAPIST, and THERAPEUTIC.
Therapy is defined as the practice of using one's training and abilities in application of a healing and/or curative manner, such as the treatment of illness or disability; being of a healing power or quality.
Therapeutic is along the same lines of having healing or curative powers.
Therapist would simply be the specialist who conducts the therapy.
When I see the title "Massage Therapy" or "Massage Therapist", I certainly do not conjure up the mental picture of visiting a "Physical Therapist", and there certainly is no confusion in my mind with the difference between the two. I also don't get a visual picture of a Massage Therapist having a college degree or a PhD.
My feelings are no different when I see the term "Hypnotherapist" or "Hypnotherapy". I certainly do not confuse that with a "Psychologist" or "Psychological Therapy". There is absolutely no confusion in my mind that one pertains to hypnosis, and the other pertains to mental health counseling.
I do not diagnose disease and/or mental disorders; I do not counsel couples on marriage issues; I do not offer professional opinions on one's mental state or disease.
What I do is use my training and skills to facilitate a client to take themself into and out of trance to work on their own particular issue. The mere act of what we do is therapeutic in nature, and I fail to see how or where that constitutes the act of practicing psychology ... so why the confusion with the word therapy?
I won't dispute that education is necessary, as is experience. What I fail to see is where having a college degree makes it "therapeutic" and not having a college degree makes it "consulting" or "technician", etc.
When I researched CA laws pertaining to psychology, what I found very interesting is that according to statute, ANYONE can practice Psychology as long as they do not charge a "fee". What puzzles me is how charging a fee has anything to do with it ... one is either practicing Psychology or they aren't.
And what was actually humorous and interesting is that as long as you are a "licensed attorney" or optomotrist, you can practice hypnosis with absolutely no training, charge a fee, and not be in violation of the Psychology sections. Wonder who dreamed that one up?
Just my two cents.
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Dennis,
I have to say I'm fairly taken back by your response.
If memory serves me, you have stated in the past you were a law enforcement officer. If this is not the case, your reply is only half as startling.
Say a law enforcement officer pulls over my 15 year old, unlicensed son driving my car. Perfectly safely except perhaps a few miles over the posted limit. My son says "Well you see officer, I don't really consider what I do as operating the motor vehicle. I know nothing of electronics, mechanics, and other workings of the internal combustion engine. I feel the vehicle operates itself and I am merely a guide."
I suppose with this new found perspective you'd give a brief warning to slow down and let him continue.
Yes Dennis, it's really only the silly little legal issue that is the problem.
You are always careful to state you do not diagnose disease or illness. Physical or mental. Yet if you review the silly legal standards they actually state Do not diagnose OR TREAT. You tend to leave this out of your statements.
I'll wager your legal disclaimer you have your customers sign did not forget to include this silly little bit.
There is much more to say on this but for now I'm stuck on "Aside from the legal issue..."
Richard
Dennis Atkinson said:Richard writes: You, Dennis, may actually work with clients illness or disability only with real referral and consultation with their treating professional however I personally know 100s of Hypnosis Professionals that only pay lip service to these principals and mostly have clients sign disclaimers regarding them just to cover their backsides.
Perhaps another thread on "Why I hate people insisting on not calling me a HypnoTherapist" would be in order.
I was just working with a useful distinction that a Hypnosis Professional provided me in this thread.
My response:
Whenever possible, I do obtain referrals from medical professionals, however this is not always possible ... only because this is a potential "legal" issue, not because it makes any difference with how I will work with the client. As far as my practice as a hypnotist, I see myself merely as someone who assists the client "take themself" into and out of trance ... essentially, I see the client doing the work, not me.
Aside from the legal issue, I do not see the importance of having a written referral from a doctor. It is the choice of the client whether they seek hypnosis or not ... I fail to see where they need a doctors permission.
I do not diagnose ... if a client comes to me and says they have a certain disease, I may ask how they came to that conclusion; but I am certainly not going to second guess them.
As far as "paying lip service" to the principles you speak of, it sounds as if "paying lip service" equates to "you are not qualified" (for whatever reason) because we are not college degreed and licensed.
In all the research I have conducted, I have yet to find one substantiated case where the act of hypnosis caused harm to the client.
As hypnotist we operate within a slippery slope only because legal statutes say we do. The client is choosing our services for a reason, not necessarily because their doctor referred them to us.
Richard Clark MFT said:Hi Dennis,
First, I don't care even a itty bit about the use of the word Therapist after hypno. I was using Michael's (not someone in a licensed counseling capacity) distinction.
Having said that, for the purposes of this discussion, which the topic of title has little barring on and only serves to sidetrack, it is a useful distinction as Michael expressed it. IMHO.
As you state:
"Therapy is defined as the practice of using one's training and abilities in application of a healing and/or curative manner, such as the treatment of illness or disability; being of a healing power or quality.
" I do not diagnose disease and/or mental disorders; I do not counsel couples on marriage issues; I do not offer professional opinions on one's mental state or disease."
Those are things I would say a HypnoTherapist would do (with appropriate training and consultation) and a summary reading of the archives here will show that many Hypnosis Professionals play semantics and actually do this regularly.
You, Dennis, may actually work with clients illness or disability only with real referral and consultation with their treating professional however I personally know 100s of Hypnosis Professionals that only pay lip service to these principals and mostly have clients sign disclaimers regarding them just to cover their backsides.
Perhaps another thread on "Why I hate people insisting on not calling me a HypnoTherapist" would be in order.
I was just working with a useful distinction that a Hypnosis Professional provided me in this thread.
Richard
Dennis Atkinson said:Richard writes: Perhaps we might need to better define the scope of practice differentiation you're making between Hypnosis Professional and HypnoTherapist. I have my ideas yet a very regularly see Hypnotists displaying little insight into the concept.
My response: My comments are not directed at Richard personally, only at this particular comment which I have seen time and time again on a variety of forums, expressed in many different ways and most commonly by those in a licenced professional counseling capacity.
I am confused by the hang-up with the use of word THERAPY, THERAPIST, and THERAPEUTIC.
Therapy is defined as the practice of using one's training and abilities in application of a healing and/or curative manner, such as the treatment of illness or disability; being of a healing power or quality.
Therapeutic is along the same lines of having healing or curative powers.
Therapist would simply be the specialist who conducts the therapy.
When I see the title "Massage Therapy" or "Massage Therapist", I certainly do not conjure up the mental picture of visiting a "Physical Therapist", and there certainly is no confusion in my mind with the difference between the two. I also don't get a visual picture of a Massage Therapist having a college degree or a PhD.
My feelings are no different when I see the term "Hypnotherapist" or "Hypnotherapy". I certainly do not confuse that with a "Psychologist" or "Psychological Therapy". There is absolutely no confusion in my mind that one pertains to hypnosis, and the other pertains to mental health counseling.
I do not diagnose disease and/or mental disorders; I do not counsel couples on marriage issues; I do not offer professional opinions on one's mental state or disease.
What I do is use my training and skills to facilitate a client to take themself into and out of trance to work on their own particular issue. The mere act of what we do is therapeutic in nature, and I fail to see how or where that constitutes the act of practicing psychology ... so why the confusion with the word therapy?
I won't dispute that education is necessary, as is experience. What I fail to see is where having a college degree makes it "therapeutic" and not having a college degree makes it "consulting" or "technician", etc.
When I researched CA laws pertaining to psychology, what I found very interesting is that according to statute, ANYONE can practice Psychology as long as they do not charge a "fee". What puzzles me is how charging a fee has anything to do with it ... one is either practicing Psychology or they aren't.
And what was actually humorous and interesting is that as long as you are a "licensed attorney" or optomotrist, you can practice hypnosis with absolutely no training, charge a fee, and not be in violation of the Psychology sections. Wonder who dreamed that one up?
Just my two cents.
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Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on -
I too...like the list and would enroll. But then... the wind blows and I am ready enroll.
One thing I would add to the list:
Not to beat a dead horse, of course...
Fitness & Nutrition.
Behavior is altered by the food we eat.
Behavior is altered by how much we move around in a day.
It is super important!
Good day...
~D.
Scott Sandland, C.Ht. said:Richard C-
I still like your list and wish there was a hypnosis school out there that taught it. Hell, I've been practicing for over ten years and I'd like to enroll!
Michael-
You brought up my point of "why 50 hours?" and I think Richard raised a great point in response. Just because you or he wouldn't require 50 hours doesn't mean a standardization should require it. Maybe 50 is too high, I don't really know. I do know that what you, with your experience and high quality brain, can learn in 5 hours would take other 25.
Does anyone have a different list, with or without the number of hours?
Scott
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