Criticism of Psychotherapy

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Permalink Reply by Blake Alexander Hammerton on January 20, 2011 at 8:48am

Oh perfect question for a good discussion!

 

I have a bachelors in Psychology, which basically means nothing at all. I do, however, have coaching credentials from Center for Right Relationship in Organization and Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSC), and Coaches Training Institute (CTI) on the Co-Active coaching program.  These courses and certifications really hone the intuition and emotional depth of being human.  It makes clients people and not patients. It holds the client agenda, so it's not a doctor-patient relationship. It's more of a client-coach/advisor relationship.

 

In psychotherapy (I've been to my own, involved in others, and co-conducted for my schooling), the relationship is one of expert-patient.  The person on the couch tells the story, and you (as the expert) decipher what the root problem and/or cause is, and guide the person toward some kind of logical conclusion.  "I'm scared, Doc. All the time. What's wrong with me?"  "Well, I'm not sure yet. Tell me about your mother." "What? How will this help me, Doc?"

 

Often, after years of therapy, we (as patients) don't ever get to see your notes. Psychotherapy helps to uncover very, very deep issues and fault lines in our mental landscape, but once it is discovered, the therapy is over. What now?  Therapists are primarily left-brained, emotional individuals - their reasoning and logic can often be an inhibitor in the "what now" process.  Sometimes that question is best asked to the client, instead of the other way around. They will provide an answer (solution) to their patient's issue based on their own reasoning and what parameters are met and checked off in the DSM.  What if the client/patient rejects it?  If they fight, then most psychotherapists may turn to the DSM again to cite other indicators of another mental issue, and therapy continues on this new issue.  The therapist's own logical reasoning may not be the emotional answer the client is looking for.

 

Enter Coaching.  In coaching, I'll work with clients on what they want to accomplish.  We will create a path of safety and permission - to fail, succeed, move, not move, whatever they want.  Then I help them get to their ultimate definition of their "best life."  I don't know what they think. I don't know what is best for them, so it's not my place to tell them when they're wrong. I hold the space for them to express whatever they feel, and we get to role play what it's like to be in good, bad, and otherwise situations.  They experience life as they see fit when they're with me.  I become their thought partner in big decisions, or if they're having a rough day/hour/week, I am their advisor to stand beside them and "walk it out" so to speak.

 

In coaching, we are always coming up against the Saboteur.  It is the Critical Area of Mind bouncing ideas back, based on what the subconscious belief system has.  If the client's sub is filled with knowns/messages that "I am not enough, I will never make enough money, I will fail" then us working CONSCIOUSLY to input "You ARE enough" is very difficult. The message bounces back.

 

Enter Hypnotherapy. Hypnotherapy is amazing because it gets to combine the two.  REAL healing, REAL fast (respective to years in traditional therapy). Hypnotherapy allows us the ability to gently, and temporarily, remove the Saboteur (critical area of mind / filter) and play with the belief structure underneath it.  Client-Centered hypnotherapy (Charles Tebbetts) is probably the closest to blending everything good together, because it puts the client's agenda first, and grants them the opportunity to be involved in their own change (just like coaching), while under the care of the hypnotherapist (just like therapy).

 

To wrap up this incredibly long post, I personally feel the "One-Day-Wow" is the biggest difference between hypnotherapy and therapy.  In one day with a therapist, you will most likely walk out feeling the same. Still feeling the issue you want to resolve, and maybe even more intensely because you've just been talking about it for an hour!  In one day with a hypnotherapist, you will most likely walk out feeling good, relaxed, comfortable, ready to take on the world.  This may only last a day, but that WOW-factor is what makes it feel so different.  And we, as humans, are feeling creatures.

 

"I feel so much better after only ONE DAY. Wow!"  

 

Holy cow, this is a long reply.  I love a good open dialog!

 

Blake

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on January 20, 2011 at 1:46pm

That was great to read, Blake. Thank you for sharing your unique perspective.

 

Years ago, I did benefit from some psychotherapy. I was lucky, I think, and a few visits which I now recognize included Parts Therapy, resulted in me regaining my balance. At the time, it acted as a bandaid to the problem and a couple of years later a great hypnotist helped me resolve it quickly and entirely.

 

I do know of one prejudice that the public might hold toward psychotherapy and I'll use yesterday's client to demonstrate: a young lady in her late 20's came in for some help with migraines. Incidentally, she had just visited a medical specialist after months of attempts to treat the pain with medication. A CT scan is scheduled in a couple of weeks to screen for any organic problems. Her insurance pays for this and also for some counseling (not mine). She had heard that hypnosis may help her with stress and discomfort and was willing to pay for immediate relief.

During our session, she revealed that she was going to start seeing the psychotherapist, but was very worried that she might be "diagnosed" with having some mental disorder! So, part of my work with her was to prepare her for working with a psychotherapist...talk about ironic! Of course, I let her know that I am totally unqualified to diagnose any disease or disorder but that in my hypnotic opinion, I found her to be a lovely and courageous person.

 

Kelley

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on January 20, 2011 at 3:49pm

Hi Jenny,

 

 

I am quoting Alonzo Davazos below:

 

Michael:  I really appreciate your advice/suggestions.  I am "very new" in hypnosis, but I have practiced psychotherapy for about 30 years.  Your comments fit beautifully with my experience and training as a therapist.  You have helped me to realize that I don't have to give up what I already know and which has worked for me.  Basically, I need to integrate hypnosis into my therapy, and not treat hypnosis as being something separate and apart from me as a healer.

Fortunately with your help, I have plenty of time to prepare a "good pre-talk" and a short "hypnotic talk" that incorporates your suggestions.

 

http://www.hypnothoughts.com/forum/topics/premature-ejaculation-1

 

My gut feeling is Alonzo will be easily able to offer his clients the best of all of his trainings, education and experience  --

 

 

And I am quoting Hugh Cole's comment to one of your eariler discussions:

 

Quoting Michael ... Quoting Milton ....Quoting commonsense ......

 

It's how you reach the personality by saying the right thing at the right time.

 

Everyone is a differant unique human being. Everyone can be your teacher and your client at the same time. I actually don't think much about technique these days. I listen ... observe ... and learn. I trust my less than concious shadow self and the body of technique I have learned, experienced and modeled in others ... to pop up the apprropriate behavior for my time with a client. I trust my beginners mind to find some new and wonderful learning that will be useful in the future to my efforts to help folks, ..... and I have fun doing it.

 

Hugh Cole

The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet

 

Michael Ellner said:

@ Jenny, et al,

 

"It isn't the amount of time.

It isn't the theory of psychotherapy.

It's how you reach the personality by saying the right thing at the right time."

-- Milton H. Erickson, M.D.

 

Hmmmmm...

 

 

@ Kelley -

 

My guess is that you would have regained your balance any way --

I am not sure what you told your client about working with a psychotherapist, but her concern about being diagnosed is valid -as  licensed mental health care professionals must diagnose a patient with a disease or disorder in order to be paid by their patient's insurer

 

@ Blake-

Interesting POV, but it is probably a good idea to update your representation of psychotherapists 

>>>The person on the couch tells the story, and you (as the expert) decipher what the root problem and/or cause is, and guide the person toward some kind of logical conclusion.  "I'm scared, Doc. All the time. What's wrong with me?"  "Well, I'm not sure yet. Tell me about your mother." "What? How will this help me, Doc?"/p>

 

Most modern day psychotherapists are shaking their heads and wondering what the heck you are talking about. Today's therapists rarely have their patients lying on couches and most practice a client centered form CBT --which is not concerned about their patient's mothers. 

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Permalink Reply by Alonzo Cavazos, Ed.D., LCSW, LPC on January 20, 2011 at 8:12pm

Jenny:

 

As a social work educator in a master's program in social work, I teach our students to focus on solutions and clients' strenghts.  Solution-focused therapy, CBT, narrative therapy...these are the newer models.  Older models are covered in the curriculum, but mostly to offer a contrast.  Students appreciate that therapy is a short-term process - about 3 or 4 sessions.  Client problems are assessed from a interactional, family systems perspective.  Students are taught how to diagnose mental disorders, because social workers are legally obligated to diagnose the presence of mental disorders.  We don't relish doing did. I also encourage students to pursue certification in hypnosis, because hypnosis and clinical social work are more similar than different.  Social workers are fortunate in that they can, if they opt to, integrate hypnosis into their practice.

Alonzo Cavazos 

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Permalink Reply by Graham Old on January 20, 2011 at 11:12pm

Wow!

On those 2 points, things are really different in the UK!

Alonzo Cavazos said:

Students are taught how to diagnose mental disorders, because social workers are legally obligated to diagnose the presence of mental disorders...  Social workers are fortunate in that they can, if they opt to, integrate hypnosis into their practice.

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Permalink Reply by Jenny Lynn on January 21, 2011 at 1:08am

Hi Blake,
Interesting.  This is what I think is confusing and that is defining what psychotherapy is.  I couldn't agree more with you on the psychotherapy that you describe below. But not all psychotherapists or psychotherapy works in the same way.  We have regulation for psychotherapy looming in the UK.  At present, we can practice without being state registered, or state educated. 

However the pros and contras to that potentiality are hotly disputed.  My feeling is, that regulation will only bring ossification: the charm, the ingenuity and effectiveness that we can have in psychotherapy will regulated out in academic single model training programmes.  This fills me with dread though it won't stop me practising as I practise but we'll just have to rename ourselves. So effectively the TM, psychotherapist, becomes the protected domain of university graduates.

Conversely, Hypnotherapy while it may bring quick results, can often not last very long and still places the hypnotherapist in the position of 'expert' who is dispensing techniques.

I think there is a tendency to always look outside of ourselves for answers. And I think we are as guilty of that as therapists as are our clients.  For example, we are sold techniques and approaches, and then we try like mad to make them work.  When they don't, we blame the approach, the style or the technique.  What really matters though, in my opinion, isn't the technique or the style but the ability of the therapist to 'reach' their clients meaningfully.  And I believe this happens best when therapists of whichever persuasion, have plummeted the depths of their own lives, found their own humanity and know how to make 'contact' with others.

And clients that are looking for others to fix them and find obliging hypnotherapists to do so, are again looking outside of themselves for answers.  I wonder whether a good therapist of any persuasion is perhaps someone who encourages clients to look inwards and find their own answers but in a way that is engaging and dynamic?

 

Best

Jenny

Read Your Client

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Jenny Lynn on January 21, 2011 at 1:11am

Thank you Michael.  I've been working through the answers from the first and now yours, the second.  I think I said something similar in my post below.  I wholeheartedly agree with you. Jenny

Michael Ellner said:

Hi Jenny,

 

 

I am quoting Alonzo Davazos below:

 

Michael:  I really appreciate your advice/suggestions.  I am "very new" in hypnosis, but I have practiced psychotherapy for about 30 years.  Your comments fit beautifully with my experience and training as a therapist.  You have helped me to realize that I don't have to give up what I already know and which has worked for me.  Basically, I need to integrate hypnosis into my therapy, and not treat hypnosis as being something separate and apart from me as a healer.

Fortunately with your help, I have plenty of time to prepare a "good pre-talk" and a short "hypnotic talk" that incorporates your suggestions.

 

http://www.hypnothoughts.com/forum/topics/premature-ejaculation-1

 

My gut feeling is Alonzo will be easily able to offer his clients the best of all of his trainings, education and experience  --

 

 

And I am quoting Hugh Cole's comment to one of your eariler discussions:

 

Quoting Michael ... Quoting Milton ....Quoting commonsense ......

 

It's how you reach the personality by saying the right thing at the right time.

 

Everyone is a differant unique human being. Everyone can be your teacher and your client at the same time. I actually don't think much about technique these days. I listen ... observe ... and learn. I trust my less than concious shadow self and the body of technique I have learned, experienced and modeled in others ... to pop up the apprropriate behavior for my time with a client. I trust my beginners mind to find some new and wonderful learning that will be useful in the future to my efforts to help folks, ..... and I have fun doing it.

 

Hugh Cole

The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet

 

Michael Ellner said:

@ Jenny, et al,

 

"It isn't the amount of time.

It isn't the theory of psychotherapy.

It's how you reach the personality by saying the right thing at the right time."

-- Milton H. Erickson, M.D.

 

Hmmmmm...

 

 

@ Kelley -

 

My guess is that you would have regained your balance any way --

I am not sure what you told your client about working with a psychotherapist, but her concern about being diagnosed is valid -as  licensed mental health care professionals must diagnose a patient with a disease or disorder in order to be paid by their patient's insurer

 

@ Blake-

Interesting POV, but it is probably a good idea to update your representation of psychotherapists 

>>>The person on the couch tells the story, and you (as the expert) decipher what the root problem and/or cause is, and guide the person toward some kind of logical conclusion.  "I'm scared, Doc. All the time. What's wrong with me?"  "Well, I'm not sure yet. Tell me about your mother." "What? How will this help me, Doc?"/p>

 

Most modern day psychotherapists are shaking their heads and wondering what the heck you are talking about. Today's therapists rarely have their patients lying on couches and most practice a client centered form CBT --which is not concerned about their patient's mothers. 

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on January 21, 2011 at 5:22am

Jenny Lynn said:

.....I think there is a tendency to always look outside of ourselves for answers. And I think we are as guilty of that as therapists as are our clients.  For example, we are sold techniques and approaches, and then we try like mad to make them work.  When they don't, we blame the approach, the style or the technique.  What really matters though, in my opinion, isn't the technique or the style but the ability of the therapist to 'reach' their clients meaningfully.  And I believe this happens best when therapists of whichever persuasion, have plummeted the depths of their own lives, found their own humanity and know how to make 'contact' with others.

And clients that are looking for others to fix them and find obliging hypnotherapists to do so, are again looking outside of themselves for answers.  I wonder whether a good therapist of any persuasion is perhaps someone who encourages clients to look inwards and find their own answers but in a way that is engaging and dynamic?

Thanks Jenny,
I have been following this discussion, and just made time between tasks to say that I am with you on this, and agree.

My original training on the late seventies, was with Peter Blythe, And what became 'Blythe Tutorial College of Hypnosis and Psychotherapy' Which eventually Became 'The National College of Hypnosis and Psychotherapy'

The inital (four weekend course), was in basic hypnosis. It did not pretend to qualify anyone to work as a hypnotherapist, it merely took took people to a level where they could feel confident about taking people into hypnosis, (and out again) safely, and with understanding and respect.

The second level course was the certificate in Hypnotherapy and Psychotherapy, and was six weekends, spread over the course of about a year. Written assignments between each weekend. roughly equivalent to a first year university degree level. And a whole weekend of written and practical exams at the end. This brought people to the level where they could start prsacticing on simple issues, such as smoking/weight, and general confidence/stress issues.

The third level was the Dyploma in Hypnotherapy and Psychotherapy, which again was six wekends over the course of a year or so, and foccused on dealing with whole range of techniques that that might be used in more complicated issues. Hypnoanalysis, regression, etc, and much deeper study of psychology, a whole range of pshychotherapeutic styles, and their particular application within hypnotherapy. Again a weekend of quite high testing written and practical exams. (passed with credits!).

I have fot thirty years now described myself as a hypnotherapist/psychotherapist.
During that time, I have had clinical supervision.
and also on a number of occasions participated as a client, in both short term and long term psychotherapy of various styles.

In forums, such as Hypnothoughts,  often see critisism, of psychotherapy by people who have some training and experience in hypnosis. but it becomes clear they have little or no clear understanding of pshychotherapy, either traditional or modern. It is my opinion, that if you are using hypnosis for change work, then you are practicing psychotherapy (with or without understanding, training or expertise.)

LOve and hugs,

Fable.

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Permalink Reply by Christine Hargan on January 21, 2011 at 11:57am

For what it's worth I don't believe that any one approach offers a full answer to any problem.  A good therapist will be well trained and keep an open mind.  Having access to a range of therapies I feel is a good idea as it keeping themselves up to date with theory and practice.

Psychotherapy is used by all therapists, surely part of what a therapist does is to talk to people about their problems and that is the core of what the profession does.  Although the training that therapists have benefitted from differs wildly.  I believe that every therapist needs a grounding in psychology I was appalled in my training that some trainee therapists wanted to hypnotise people to make them conform, because it would be easier.......

Hypnotherapy offers a rapid solution and helps people to find answers quickly, but it doesn't suit everyone. 

NLP has some really good points but again doesn't suit everyone and it's biggest weakness in my opinion is that it focusses on visualisation. 

EFT/Tapping therapy again works well for some people, and is great for gaining balance.   

Huna provides trance through meditation and has some great techniques and I find some particularly helpful for finding the thing or person the client can't let go of.

and the different therapies go on... and ... on...

There are a number of schools of psychology and psychotherapy and I feel that there are weaknesses in each individual one, but an integrative approach taking the strengths of each to suit the individual is a much better approach to therapy.

Some people are keen to shoot you down in flames re your opinions threads and discussions, but I find that more people will jump in with brilliant suggestions and help you very quickly when you need it most.

 

Best wishes

 

Chris

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Permalink Reply by Robert S on January 21, 2011 at 10:47pm

"I'm scared, Doc. All the time. What's wrong with me?"  "OK so....  your scared all the time, I mean ALL the time, why is that wrong? Yes its a silly question. but I'm just curious, in your own words, why is it wrong to be scared ALL of the time?"

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on January 21, 2011 at 11:49pm

Hypnotherapists can lack insight and actually transmit their performance anxieties because they "typically" talk more than listen, and psychotherapists can keep people in therapy longer than necessary because they "lovingly" listen more than talk.

 

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Permalink Reply by Graham Old on January 22, 2011 at 2:37am

Excellent answer.

Doc Regal said:

Hypnotherapists can lack insight and actually transmit their performance anxieties because they "typically" talk more than listen, and psychotherapists can keep people in therapy longer than necessary because they "lovingly" listen more than talk.

 

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