Dating a former client- is this allowed?

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Permalink Reply by Brian Weed on February 22, 2011 at 5:36pm

Washington States RCW Laws stricly prohibit it for 2 years.  I believe that I saw some really great advice when a 16 year old girl asked about having sex for the first time. The advice that I saw was that if you are asking the question, it is probably not the right thing to be doing.

 

I would never date a client, it opens the door for too many problems. What state do you live in. If your question stems from a legal standpoint, I can find out. If it is a moral one, then only you have the right answer and all anyone else can give you is their opinion, in which case, just ask enough people and you will find someone to give you the answer that you already want......

 

Brian

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on February 22, 2011 at 5:45pm

Hi Jerry,

My advice to you is: erchhhhh! (the sound of brakes). Dating a client is not only illegal, but it is unethical. Many state provisions for this require a waiting period of up to 24 months before engaging in a personal relationship with former clients. You can imagine the reason for this; as a hypnotist you hold special influence over your clients and it would be wrong to use it to endear yourself to them in a way beyond the hypnotist/client level.

Besides, once you consider your work as an avenue for dating, it changes the dynamic in a way that may even be harmful to you. I know what I'm talking about: as an unmarried, female hypnotist, I've had instances of male clients requesting to get together outside of the office and I admit, sometimes I was flattered. Sometimes, building rapport does feel like flirting!

But, you are the professional and need stay within boundaries. Keep her best interest at heart, help her with her smoking cessation and fish outside your client pool.

 

Best wishes,

 

Kelley

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Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on February 22, 2011 at 6:57pm

Great advice Kelley and Brian.  Approximately 10 years ago COPHO (the group that oversees hypnosis organizations in the US) adopted a policy that you should wait 2 yrs before dating a former client or former student.  At the time both were a major problem and not only was the profession suffering but so were the individual parties involved.  To expand on what Kelley said, how disillusioned would you be when the girl who was so enticing in your office as your client turns out to be totally different as a girlfriend.  Put on the skids on this one. There's plenty of pretty, flirty girls.  Hang out at the chic bars instead of the sports bars.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on February 22, 2011 at 7:57pm

I deal with this as a teacher of professional ethics for mental health professionals.    And here are my general thoughts on it:

1.)  There are over 6 billion people on the earth.  5 billion 999 million of these people you have never worked with professionally.     Please, pick one of them. 

2.)  Licensed professionals depending on the state either:   1.)  Must wait two year or 2.)   the new standard being adapted by more and more states- you may NEVER have a sexual relationship with them.

3.)   Even after two years, the burden of proving the relationship did not harm the client is on you.    How many break-ups occur where a person claims they were harmed "emotionally abused" by the other just in the real world of dating?

People often overlook these risks, and I have dated A LOT of people (none of them clients) and even people I thought were really normal at the beginning turned out to be seriously flakes six weeks later... 

Even if you are a perfect gentleman, perception is 99% of reality, and if 6 years later they allege you are an "abusive hypnotist" you could find yourself in hot water- even if it was just treatment for smoking cessation.

4.)  A lot of people make the mistake of thinking these rules apply only to licensed mental health professionals.  They do not.  Sure licensure laws make it easier to prosecute, county attorneys will and do apply these standards to anyone they think they should apply to...

  Now the odds of anything turning out badly for you are low.   I am sure you are a nice guy and she is a great and reasonable girl.   But the reality is the risk is there.   Is it worth your career?   The unlikly but possible ramification of having to register as sex offender?    As Ed Meese discovered even the "appearance of impropriety" is as severe as the actual crime in our society....   

And so, back to the other 5 billion 999 million 999 thousand people that you have never worked with.....

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Permalink Reply by Brian Weed on February 22, 2011 at 10:16pm

Wow Richard, I was going to use the 6 billion people on earth, so find one that you didn't work with line! But then I remembered that other catchy one about if you have to ask the question, you probably already know the answer!  Well, it seems that the question has been answered, no sleeping with clients or students........It's just wrong legally and ethically.

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Permalink Reply by Pattie Freeman CH.t, MST on February 22, 2011 at 10:58pm

Richard great advice I agree with all of you,.

Dating or asking someone out shows the professionalism you had acheived for yourself just went out the window.

Some people would find this is bad judgement and I would personally find it creepy.

I have been asked out by a client and politely told him no that by my own morals it is not professional

they respect this and I then send them to another Hypnotherapist. Once the thought crosses their mind and they cross it by

asking it makes it difficult for them to trust you.  I would say Don't ask her out..it would turn out badly for you and your client.

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on February 22, 2011 at 11:49pm

Great advice here.

 

However innocent now, it could end your career, as it can be perceived to be an abuse of position of trust. You could be accused of grooming your clients. Even if not this one, someone later could accuse you of impropriety... If you've never 'gone there' with a previous client, you can say that with impunity. If you happen to be in a relationship, you appear to be unscrupulous, and the mud they fling may very well stick.

 

Clients can get a degree of transference, and we've all had propositions from people who otherwise probably would not be attracted to us. As an intensive care nurse, I have had countless offers of romantic/sexual relationships from both patients and relatives, but it doesn't mean they wanted ME. I think they liked the idea of someone who understood them, didn't judge them, wasn't disgusted by what was wrong with them, and could help them.

 

It gets less sexy when they figure out that you're like that with everyone!

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on February 23, 2011 at 4:11am

Hi Jerry-

 

I agree with the advice you have been receiving --  If you are charging people for your hypnotic assistance you are acting as a hypnotherapy professional and bound by those ethics and obligations.

 

FYI - My understanding is that CO. has some of the most liberal laws concerning who can practice "therapy" and they have some of the toughest laws concerning relationships between therapists and their client/patients-

 

@ Henxy-

" but it doesn't mean they wanted ME."

 

If I were a betting man - I'd bet that they wanted YOU sunshine! 

 

=^..^=

 

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Permalink Reply by Graham Old on February 23, 2011 at 4:37am

Just a word of advice on something you brought up:

You cannot tell if someone is flirting with you, if you only see them in one context on your own. You have nothing to calibrate.

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on February 23, 2011 at 5:49am

Mr Ellner,

 

You are making me blush AND undermining my point! ;-)

 

Thanks, I think! xx

Michael Ellner said:

Hi Jerry-

 

I agree with the advice you have been receiving --  If you are charging people for your hypnotic assistance you are acting as a hypnotherapy professional and bound by those ethics and obligations.

 

FYI - My understanding is that CO. has some of the most liberal laws concerning who can practice "therapy" and they have some of the toughest laws concerning relationships between therapists and their client/patients-

 

@ Henxy-

" but it doesn't mean they wanted ME."

 

If I were a betting man - I'd bet that they wanted YOU sunshine! 

 

=^..^=

 

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Permalink Reply by Leshem Yosef on February 23, 2011 at 7:25am

If you need to ask about it here the BIG NO it's what you get

If it was a real true love you probably wouldn't ask this Q

And naturally it will be a  BIG YES

Good luck

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Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig - HypnosisAustin on February 23, 2011 at 7:40am

This question comes up periodically here, and I think we all agree that it's wrong (and rather slimy) to use your position as someone's hypnotist to initiate sexual or romantic behavior. And likewise, we agree it's important to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

 

But every time we have this discussion, I start wondering--is it unethical for me to continue sleeping with my wife, now that I've hypnotized her? I ask this a bit facetiously, as I don't feel that I've violated ethics and doubt anyone here would say I have, but it does make me start thinking about where exactly that line is.

 

If a hypnotist were dating someone, and they used "hyperempiric" techniques together to enhance lovemaking, would the hypnotist be violating ethics? After all, he would be sleeping with a trance partner. My gut is to say that's all right because the sexual relationship existed first, similar to the marriage example.

 

But what if the hypnotist had met her at a bar, and during that initial conversation, she said, "Wow, you're a hypnotist! Can you hypnotize me right now?" That's not an unlikely scenario. He hypnotizes her; she loves it. The hit it off. If their relationship later becomes sexual, has he violated professional ethics? We're starting to venture onto shaky ground, though my gut still says he hasn't violated ethics. Yet I could see how it might appear to those unfamiliar with hypnosis that he just hypnotized her into being his girlfriend . . .  so is he really avoiding the appearance of impropriety?

 

But if that's the case, what should he have done? Saying, "No, I can't hypnotize you because I'm hoping we'll sleep together" is not going to work very well. On the flip side, is he really going to say, "Gosh, I like you, but I stuck your eyes shut in the bar, so we can never have sexual relations"?

 

Of course, no money changed hands for that hypnosis. She was not his client. But what if, in order to have an excuse to get his number, she said, "Can I have your card? I might want to make an appointment." Then she's a potential client. How shaky is the ground now?

 

What if instead of meeting at a bar, they met because she volunteered at a hypnosis show he did? Now, money has exchanged hands. Is the ground shakier?

 

I'm not trying to prove any kind of point here, and I'm certainly not trying to ever excuse a therapist who hits on clients. Not sleeping with your clients is a black-and-white issue. But I'm curious about the gray areas, and how others see them.

 

James

 

P.S. In making the hypothetical hypnotist in my examples male, I did not mean any slight to female hypnotists. Using "he or she" just got very clumsy.

 

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