Dealing with False Memories

Hello, all.

A potential client asked me earlier today about false memories. He wanted to know how such things are created in a person (with a view towards deconstructing them), and why such things might be done. So, I'm asking you - how are false memories created and why?

Sebastian

Tags: false, memories

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on April 22, 2009 at 3:31pm

Hello,

I'm no expert in consciousness or the inner workings of the mind, but it seems pretty simple to me: false memories can be suggested when in a highly suggestible state. Not a big mystery.

As to why? What a strange question. So the potential client is asking you to explain why someone else would create a false memory in them? How are you supposed to answer that? And how exactly does this client know that the memory is false? I mean, if a person knows that something was a dream, hallucination, or fantasy, why would there be a need to un-remember/deconstruct it?

I would immediately reject this client or refer them to someone trained in forensic hypnosis, if only for legal protection. At the very least record/document all interactions with this person. Based solely on what you describe, this smells like trouble.

Anyway, when I was doing work for Tyrell Corporation with memory implantation in their replicants, the goal was to provide a mental/emotional framework for their artificially generated personalities. This made it easier for their controllers to interact with them. But I assume your potential client is not a replicant, but an actual human? So this situation is puzzling.

Sebastian, did you ever work for Tyrell also? I seem to recall an engineer named Sebastian in one of their L.A. divisions who did design work on their Nexus models.

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Permalink Reply by Tranzkey on April 22, 2009 at 3:56pm

I do not claim to know either, but I am wondering if the false memory is a defense, a replacement for a true memory.

False memories can be suggested, then you have to wonder about who did it, and why?

Or it might not be false?

Sorry that I am not seeing more ideas...

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Permalink Reply by Erich Reitinger on April 22, 2009 at 6:51pm

I would like to have more information about the client.
What is his motivation to ask?
Is he concerned personally?
If so, - how does he know, his memory is false?

Interesting case, please more information.
I know some cases, where a false memory helped to bear some situations in the past..
Just a thougt to discuss also with this client and even here in the forum:
Are there real memories and how can I find out?
When I discuss my childhood with my sister, we seemed to have lived in different families...
So, - who has the right memories ...

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on April 22, 2009 at 11:07pm

False memories often occur by accident rather than design, simply because the hypnotist is unawarely leading the client, and the client comes up with a memory that fits what has been suggested.

All true memories are also false!

aske ten people to recount what happened at the scene of an accident... you will get ten different accounts fron ten different perspectives, overlayed with the prejudices / attitudes/ feelings of ten different witnesses.

which one is true?

As to how to spot a false memory...
Salvador Dali had something to say about this:

The difference between false memories and true ones is same as for jewels:
it is always the false ones that look the most real, the most brilliant.

LOve and hugs,

Fable

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Permalink Reply by bruce on April 23, 2009 at 1:30am

Like the others, I would like to say that I'm no expert. That being said, lemme take a crack at it. As Fable said, get ten different witnesses, and you get ten different memories. However, in my experience, most serious false memories occur when there is a strong motivation to create them. This happens most of the time (in my experience) when sombody is in awe of somebody else and wants to please them (call it what you want: emeshment, lack of boundries, projection, transference etc.). Such situations often occur in client/therapist relationships, or with charismatic leaders such as gurus and cult leaders.

It's also worth mentioning to a client that, when you think about it, imagination and memory are very, very similar... and that we're creatures that think in terms of stories, and sometimes we want to change the story.

I'd also like to say for the record that I believe that false memories and repressed memories do exist, as do distortions of real memories. It makes life complicated, but that's what we have to deal with.

Also, it sounds like your client has already decided that his memories are false... why?

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Permalink Reply by Jill Semonin PhD- CHt on April 23, 2009 at 3:46am

I always got the impression that all memories 'felt' are real, regardless if they were false or not. The reason is because if it's experienced, even just in the mind, the subconscious knows no difference. So, false or not, a memory of an emotion felt is real to the mind, regardless if it is a physical memory, a dream, or suggestion with emotion felt.

Finding out if it's real or not would be to figure out the circumstances and actions surrounding the memory. Somebody else may never be able to prove one way or the other whether something was real or not. That is why most courts will not allow a person to testify if the client has been hypnotized for the specific case. However; the reason we are able to detect a dream being a dream, is because of the unreal things we have happen in our dreams, and waking up, thinking "Whew- it was just a dream, thank God" categorizes that emotion as false, but it was still felt, and still very real feeling. Being able to know it wasn't real isn't always the case, sometimes a client may not even remember the dream, and develop a fear of something happening, due to dreaming about it and not recognizing it as being a dream, especially if the dream 'felt' very real, and emotions were experienced.

This is one of the reason hypnosis works to begin with, which is why we want our clients to 'emotionally feel it', so it becomes real. It's a way of changing one's reality. It's what we do, isn't it? That exactly how NLP works, isn't it?

Does the tree that falls in the middle of the forest make noise? or even fall? That answer would only depend on those who were close enough to experience the tree falling. If one wasn't around, the event never took place, so it didn't happen in all realities. Media and TV is one of the reason we are able to experience much more, than we normally would be exposed to, which causes all kinds of false memories that are very real.

I remember 911, as if I was there..... I watched my TV and tears poured out of my eyes in disbelief, praying that it was just TV, but it wasn't. I emotionally felt it, as I think the world did. Yet, I wasn't there. So remembering it could be a false memory, taken as real. This is why some have nightmares. They watch TV, not really knowing if something is real or not, like movies, or reality TV, or shows that could be real. I.e. Ghost Hunters. Some will actually think it's real and really be scared at night, some will write it off as faked.... place emotion with it, and it's created to be very real.

Same goes with religion and church.... some churches will place a ton of emotion on it, which now we are talking pure NLP factor. If all three factors of NLP are in place, nothing and nobody can take away the feeling that God has healed them, or was felt to some degree. Was it real? You bet it was to many. I am just trying to explain how easy false memories can happen and I hope I did not complicate how I see it. LOL

Again, same as the rest, just trying to explain how I see it from a different point of view. I hope it makes sense to you Sebastian. (Give Tesla a hug for me).

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on April 23, 2009 at 4:25am

Hi-

Back in the hood, the word on the street was-- It is always a good idea to pay very close attention -- when ever some one says "I'm no expert"

I'm no expert -- But, I love and agree with Fable's -- take on this: All true memories are also false!

Having said that and for the sake of this conversation - let's say that we can all agree that "false memories" are memories that are the result of the power of suggestion rather than actual experience...

Example, in the US, tens of thousands of patients and their familes were victims of false memories of physical and most often, sexual abuse that were unknowingly planted in their minds by the Licensed Mental Health Professionals who were hypnotically searching for these memories... (Why should they ever be trusted to use hypnosis, again?)

My direct experience in helping some of these people is that being aware that a memory of physical abuse is not accurate or even being aware that memories of sexual abuse are completely fabricated -- was not enough to help my clients resolve what they called "False Memory Syndrome"

I was able to help these clients "let go" --in one session, by making it reasonable for them to believe that going through their hypnotic healing ritual would discharge the EMOTIONAL "hit" that I suggested they had unconsciously associated with the false memory and the suggestion that doing so -- would set them free!

Another example of the Power of Suggestion and an Excited Imagination --

It seems, at least to me that the above experiences seem to confirm Couie's model that when emotions (the unconscious) and reason (the conscious) are in conflict -- The Emotions always win -- but, hey it's memory based...

Warmest regards,
Michael E.

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on April 23, 2009 at 6:46am

Hello Sebastian,

It didn't occur to me based on your original post that your potential client may be referring to memories they feel they created for themselves. As other people have pointed out this can be done as a defense mechanism, a sort of dissociation, or maybe the person just likes to delude themselves and make stuff up. There are lots of reasons why, but I would hesitate to speculate with the potential client --- you may inadvertently end up suggesting that they are repressing something when they are really not. Anyway, it's unclear what this client is really asking about.

I work with regressions pretty much on a daily basis but anytime a client or prospect seems to have a preset intention of recovering specific memories, I get the "willies" and tread even more carefully --- except for plain vanilla "lost my wedding ring" type exercises. Just as I would avoid working with a hypnotist who has a pre-formed agenda ("you must have repressed that experience with the Zeta Reticulan anal probes!"), the same principle would apply to clients: for example, I would be very cautious about working with a prospect who specifically wanted to remember whether or not Uncle Bob touched them. I can't help suspecting that is a case of someone just using "hypnosis" to confirm something they already want to believe for some reason or another, regardless of "truth". Plus, Uncle Bob may have good lawyers.

Be careful, for your sake and for the sake of all practicing hypnotists in your state. I recommend you record (with consent) and document all interactions regarding this matter with this individual.

- the grumpy (and paranoid) hypnotist

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on April 23, 2009 at 6:56am

Dear Grumpy,

I remember very clearly the experience with the Zeta Reticulan Anal Probes, (now that you mention it) I had forgot it until a few moments ago.

I feel as if a great weight has been lifted of my mind.

which proves the old addage... 'Free your arse, and your mind will follow !' where do I send my fee?

LOve hugs, (and tongue firmy between clenched cheeks),

Fable

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Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on April 23, 2009 at 7:59am

I totally agree with you Fable; All true memories are also false!.
What is real...really?

Many people create false memories to make things more 'spectacular'. Even dramatic, traumatic things. It isn't that these traumatic things didn't occur (sometimes)...but....we have a way of making the event more of a mountain. Isn't it great to be human?

One time I was talking to a friend of mine who witnessed a car accident, cars crashing, flipping, crunching, people getting pulled out, fire, cars blowing up, they knew the color & make of both vehicles, they could tell you the sounds they heard and the feelings that were involved in witnessing such an event...
With this said - I also know this friend was 200 miles away that day, taking her kids to a concert or some other event in a town going in the opposite direction of the crash site. There was NO WAY she was on the scene, let alone 'actually' hearing the sounds or feeling the feelings involved with the witnessing of the event.
However...she must have read about it in the paper...she lived it in her mind. She made the scene what she perceived it to be. This happened 15, 20 years ago or so (what is time?) and in my life she has mentioned it on a few occasions as if it is a true memory for her.

Years ago, I think I once mentioned, "Weren't you in Billings that day? I mean...the crash happened outside of Bozeman..."

She would have none of that! haha "you know it happened on a different day than my trip! Wouldn't I know if I was there?"
Whatever.
It wasn't important to me so I left it at that....

I guess the point...ahhhh...the point. (is it just me, or is it frequently I go off on tangents and have to get back to the point? lol)

The point -

If we choose to believe it (fact or fiction)...it's real to us.
It's that easy.

~D.