depression. treatment with hypnotherapy and psychotherapy. discuss and evaluate

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com on August 25, 2010 at 9:02am

"i have this question to answer in my counselling course was wondering if anyone has any opinion on this matter. I have heard that hypnotherapy is quicker but is not guarenteed to be as effective long term."

**Of course for those -like me- that are not licensed counselors/therapists, we must always get a referral from the clients doctor before working with them for depression and of course there are different levels of depression... Always work within your scope of practice. That said...

In general, faster results are achieved with hypnosis and NLP (along with many other modalities) than traditional "talk therapy", however I have found that the right psychotherapist or counselor that uses NLP/Hypnosis in conjunction with their usual protocol, can gain results just as quickly.

There's never a guarantee and how long it lasts, in my experience, depends on the client and how much he/she implements the tools that you teach them. Overcome depression is usually only successful long term when you teach clients practical tools for coping with day to day challenges. Teach them HOW to feel good naturally so that they understand that they are in control of how they feel.

So long as the client uses the tools that you teach him/her, in my experience the results are life long... That doesn't mean that they won't have bad days (we all do) or that something significant won't happen, such as a death of a loved one that won't require additional help, but in general... Teach a man to fish and he'll never go hungry again...

"Also is regression always used in treating depression in hypnotherapy, do you really have to go back to find the cause??"

**Absolutely Not. It can be quite useful and I often will (once I've built up plenty of positive resources via other work that has nothing to do with Regression), but it's in no way a requirement. Again, teach a man/woman to fish and they'll never go hungry again...

A book that may give you some great insight into what's possible with NLP & Hypnosis for depression and countless other issues is "Richard Bandler's Guide To Trance-Formations". It's only about $11 on amazon and is an excellent read...


Hope that helps,

Kevin

Live NLP, Life Coach & Hypnosis Training

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on August 25, 2010 at 10:40am

Hi.
Your thread title and question don't match...

My take on this is that certain people can be counselled until the counsellor is blue in the face, but there is minimal change effected. Hypnotherapy can allow the client to experience what the therapist is talking about, often seen through the eyes of another person because their eyes don't see the unbiased picture.

Hypnotherapy is difficult to quantify in research terms, as so much is tailored to the client. This makes many hypno papers fluffy. Counselling is more mainstream, and therefore there is more written about it.

The issue of regression is something which divides hypnotherapists. Personally, I see no reason to dig up the past: I'm concerned about creating a better future... I don't think that in many cases there is A cause, there is a POSSIBLE cause...

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Permalink Reply by Craig Homonnay on August 25, 2010 at 8:28pm

I totally agree with Henxy and Kevin

In my practice I do use regression but it comes after we relieve the depression from surface events
That is I Relieve the depressed feeling first and then regress into that feeling making sure that there is nothing from their past that can resurface and undo our work .....if we bump into anything that is causing them to feel bad , we deal with it before it has a chance to surface in real life ....I have found that by doing it this way the client has rapid and lasting change

Craig

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Permalink Reply by Rob McKeon on August 27, 2010 at 8:27am

Depending on how seriously you wish to research the area for your class you may wish to read some work by Michael Yapko and / or Assen Alladin who are probably the leading two publishing clinicians who use hypnosis as a tool in therapeutic work on depression.

Here is a link for Yapko's books:
http://www.yapkoproducts.com/simpo2/content/store/catalog.aspx?ptid=8

His 2006 edited book Hypnosis and Treating Depression: Applications in Clinical Practice is a good one for you and contains chapters by many of the clinicians one one wish to read on this topic. If you friend request me I can email you a copy of the book.

The one you would want from Alladin is the Handbook of Cognitive Hypnotherapy for Depression:
http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Cognitive-Hypnotherapy-Depression-Ev...

I don't have the above one in digital form but I can send you Alladin's 2007 paper in International Journal of Clinical and Experimental Hypnosis called Cognitive Hypnotherapy for Depression: An Empirical Investigation if you wish.

Not related to hypnosis, but for others who are interested I think this 2008 paper by Aaron Beck is one of the best papers you will read on our current understanding of depression:
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/165/8/969

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Permalink Reply by sion stephens on August 27, 2010 at 10:35pm

Thanks everyone for all there great information. It will all come in extremelly usefull in writing this paper.

thanks,
sion

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Permalink Reply by John Sannicandro on August 28, 2010 at 12:20am

Michael Yapko does not believe that one needs to regress to cause to treat depression with hypnosis. Cognitive Therapy does not need to know what caused depression in order to treat it. Yapko's patter always brings up the idea of "thinking about things in a new and different way" at which time he introduces the cognitive strategies. In a seminar I attended in 2009, he was asked this direct question about regression to cause and he stated it was not needed. I asked a question about convincers and he said they were not needed. I almost always use some convincers to assure the subject is open and suggestable. Yapko is the depression expert, but I wonder if he is biased against strategies that are used by those who do not have training in counseling and psychotherapy.

John
www.jslmhc.com

Rob McKeon said:

Depending on how seriously you wish to research the area for your class you may wish to read some work by Michael Yapko and / or Assen Alladin who are probably the leading two publishing clinicians who use hypnosis as a tool in therapeutic work on depression.

Here is a link for Yapko's books:
http://www.yapkoproducts.com/simpo2/content/store/catalog.aspx?ptid=8

His 2006 edited book Hypnosis and Treating Depression: Applications in Clinical Practice is a good one for you and contains chapters by many of the clinicians one one wish to read on this topic. If you friend request me I can email you a copy of the book.

The one you would want from Alladin is the Handbook of Cognitive Hypnotherapy for Depression:
http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Cognitive-Hypnotherapy-Depression-Ev...

I don't have the above one in digital form but I can send you Alladin's 2007 paper in International Journal of Clinical and Experimental Hypnosis called Cognitive Hypnotherapy for Depression: An Empirical Investigation if you wish.

Not related to hypnosis, but for others who are interested I think this 2008 paper by Aaron Beck is one of the best papers you will read on our current understanding of depression:
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/165/8/969

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Carol Sanders on August 28, 2010 at 2:15am

I agree. One of my favorite quotes is ....When the STUDENT is ready..the teacher arrives.......I have a strong belief that if the client is really truely not ready for healing, then there will be only temporary results...additionally..we naturally go back to homeostasis ( status quo ) so we must dilligently work toward keeping that healing in place and active untill IT becomes the new status quo.....how long will this take?......again its up to the client....

Henxy said:

Hi.
Your thread title and question don't match...

My take on this is that certain people can be counselled until the counsellor is blue in the face, but there is minimal change effected. Hypnotherapy can allow the client to experience what the therapist is talking about, often seen through the eyes of another person because their eyes don't see the unbiased picture.

Hypnotherapy is difficult to quantify in research terms, as so much is tailored to the client. This makes many hypno papers fluffy. Counselling is more mainstream, and therefore there is more written about it.

The issue of regression is something which divides hypnotherapists. Personally, I see no reason to dig up the past: I'm concerned about creating a better future... I don't think that in many cases there is A cause, there is a POSSIBLE cause...

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Permalink Reply by Jan Krüger on August 28, 2010 at 5:40am

You hear many things about the efficacy and applicability of hypnosis, and many of them wildly contradict each other.

One thing I've heard is that hypnosis is not indicated at all for treating depression, supposedly because hypnosis is all about becoming absorbed in fantasy, and people already do that without hypnosis and it keeps them depressed.
Why are there claims like that? Because some people have ideas about hypnosis and don't actually bother to check whether they are true, or don't check very well.

I've taken up not being very convinced by statements about things that are supposedly not possible with hypnosis... but part of that is that I have an extremely naturalistic view on hypnosis, so I tend to see more things in it than some other people.

Carol Sanders said:

I agree. One of my favorite quotes is ....When the STUDENT is ready..the teacher arrives.......I have a strong belief that if the client is really truely not ready for healing, then there will be only temporary results...

I utterly and completely reject that perspective... would be way too much of an excuse for me. If I as a changeworker failed to help someone after doing my very best, I could always claim that it failed because the client was not "ready", rather than considering that perhaps I could succeed in helping him if I learned more.
If a client was not "ready" but wanted to change, I'd feel it's my responsibility to get him ready... and fast.
We've had that same discussion already, though, somewhere around here.

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Permalink Reply by Rob McKeon on August 28, 2010 at 9:04am

I wouldn't say that Yapko is biased against techniques that non-psychotherapists use, although he is biased against non-licensed mental health clinicians engaging in hypnotherapy. Rather I think that anybody who views depression from a biopsychosocial perspective and has an interest in the cognitive theory of depression is unlikely to have a great deal of respect for the concept of regression as a cure for depression.

Whatever about hypnotic regression for phobia (and the mechanism of action in that is actually exposure and imaginal coping, it is not relevant whether it is a real past situation or an imagined one imo), regression for depression makes little conceptual sense in the main.

To believe that depression is caused by an event is antithetical to the fundamental ABC model of cognitive behavioural therapy, so CBT people are just not going to be that interested in regression.

In respect of convincers, it is probably the case that Yapko doesn't need them because he doesn't engage solely in hypnotherapy. Also because he is well read in the scientific research on hypnosis he really doesn't subscribe to the concept of trance in hypnosis (despite his most popular book being called Trancework), and so what is it that he would be convincing clients of?

John Sannicandro said:

Michael Yapko does not believe that one needs to regress to cause to treat depression with hypnosis. Cognitive Therapy does not need to know what caused depression in order to treat it. Yapko's patter always brings up the idea of "thinking about things in a new and different way" at which time he introduces the cognitive strategies. In a seminar I attended in 2009, he was asked this direct question about regression to cause and he stated it was not needed. I asked a question about convincers and he said they were not needed. I almost always use some convincers to assure the subject is open and suggestable. Yapko is the depression expert, but I wonder if he is biased against strategies that are used by those who do not have training in counseling and psychotherapy.

John

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on August 28, 2010 at 10:28am

Hi Sion, et al,

Mostly when hypnotherapy is being discussed in science or the major media they are talking about licensed health care professionals who practice hypnosis and not certified hypnosis practitioners like most of us on hypnothoughts.

Each camp of talk therapists has vested interests - doctors and therapists who are invested in short term therapy challenge the need for longer term approaches and doctors and therapists who are invested in long term therapy claim it is necessary for long term benefits. Both of the groups are poor cousins to the biochemical camp of doctors who treat depression with drugs.

About regression:
Once upon a time, Psycho-Analysis was the ruling theory and practice and hypnotic entrancement and regression was used to discover hidden causes. In the last 30 years cognitive and behavioral theories and practices have replaced Psycho-Analysis and most modern day doctors and therapists frown on regression to find imaginary hidden causes.

FYI - A masterful hypnosis practitioner doesn't have to mention the word depression in helping their clients reverse the "Fun Deficiency Disorders" that are often giving rise to their clients depressive feelings.

Michael E.

Rob McKeon said:

I wouldn't say that Yapko is biased against techniques that non-psychotherapists use, although he is biased against non-licensed mental health clinicians engaging in hypnotherapy. Rather I think that anybody who views depression from a biopsychosocial perspective and has an interest in the cognitive theory of depression is unlikely to have a great deal of respect for the concept of regression as a cure for depression.

Whatever about hypnotic regression for phobia (and the mechanism of action in that is actually exposure and imaginal coping, it is not relevant whether it is a real past situation or an imagined one imo), regression for depression makes little conceptual sense in the main.

To believe that depression is caused by an event is antithetical to the fundamental ABC model of cognitive behavioural therapy, so CBT people are just not going to be that interested in regression.

In respect of convincers, it is probably the case that Yapko doesn't need them because he doesn't engage solely in hypnotherapy. Also because he is well read in the scientific research on hypnosis he really doesn't subscribe to the concept of trance in hypnosis (despite his most popular book being called Trancework), and so what is it that he would be convincing clients of?

John Sannicandro said:

Michael Yapko does not believe that one needs to regress to cause to treat depression with hypnosis. Cognitive Therapy does not need to know what caused depression in order to treat it. Yapko's patter always brings up the idea of "thinking about things in a new and different way" at which time he introduces the cognitive strategies. In a seminar I attended in 2009, he was asked this direct question about regression to cause and he stated it was not needed. I asked a question about convincers and he said they were not needed. I almost always use some convincers to assure the subject is open and suggestable. Yapko is the depression expert, but I wonder if he is biased against strategies that are used by those who do not have training in counseling and psychotherapy.

John

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Permalink Reply by Rob McKeon on August 29, 2010 at 8:38am

Michael Ellner said:

Hi Sion, et al, FYI - A masterful hypnosis practitioner doesn't have to mention the word depression in helping their clients reverse the "Fun Deficiency Disorders" that are often giving rise to their clients depressive feelings.
Michael E.

I like the way you put that, "Fun Deficiency Disorders". Indeed pure behavioural therapy for depression has made a comeback over the past few years with the likes of Christopher Martell's behavioural activation therapy which followed from component analysis experiments of CBT for depression which suggested that the cognitive components may be superfluous.

The essence of the behavioural activation perspective on depression is that through experiential avoidance depressed people have extricated themselves from the contingencies of life and thus are not getting rewarded for behaviour. The therapy is to get them to engage in behaviours that are inherently rewarding. Depression could indeed, from this behavioural perspective, be thought of as a fun deficiency disorder. I wonder is it too late to get it into the DSM V? :)

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Permalink Reply by sion stephens on August 29, 2010 at 12:09pm

id love to hear what you thinkof the dsm v rob

Rob McKeon said:

Michael Ellner said:

Hi Sion, et al, FYI - A masterful hypnosis practitioner doesn't have to mention the word depression in helping their clients reverse the "Fun Deficiency Disorders" that are often giving rise to their clients depressive feelings.
Michael E.

I like the way you put that, "Fun Deficiency Disorders". Indeed pure behavioural therapy for depression has made a comeback over the past few years with the likes of Christopher Martell's behavioural activation therapy which followed from component analysis experiments of CBT for depression which suggested that the cognitive components may be superfluous.

The essence of the behavioural activation perspective on depression is that through experiential avoidance depressed people have extricated themselves from the contingencies of life and thus are not getting rewarded for behaviour. The therapy is to get them to engage in behaviours that are inherently rewarding. Depression could indeed, from this behavioural perspective, be thought of as a fun deficiency disorder. I wonder is it too late to get it into the DSM V? :)

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