Derren Brown

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig on December 12, 2009 at 3:12pm

Some of the camera angles in some of the skits are from outside the glass. But go ahead and believe what you want. :-)

James

Conca said:

I have to disagree, watch it again and you'll see that the camera is outside the shop looking through the glass, and the other angle could easily be another "customer" or one of the staff could have been in on it. It wouldn't be that hard.

Conca

James Hazlerig said:

Watch the camera angles in some of his "pay with fake money" skits. Some of the shots are from behind the shop counter! Do you really think the shopkeeper didn't know what was happening?

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Permalink Reply by Lauren Wade on December 12, 2009 at 3:28pm

As much as my friend is always calling him a "Con-artist" and as much as some of his tricks (like the lottery prediction) use TV tricks, many of my favorite skits use anchoring techniques that I use. I trust his word that he doesn't use actors, but that doesn't mean he doesn't talk with anyone beforehand. Although I love to use the drunk without drinking skit on my friends (except with soda, to make them hyper. It's fun.), I think he did some suggestibility test on them.

On another side, he re-enactment of the Milgram Experiment was interesting. Let's hope he doesn't re-enact the Stanford Prison Experiment.

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Mooney on December 12, 2009 at 3:32pm

I'd like to thank the"old-timers" for chiming in. I understand and know all about the camera tricks and what not. I, however didn't think that his stating of using NLP/hypnosis etc... could/is a misdirection in it of itself. You're right Antonio, Brilliant! Being that I have some understanding of NLP and hypnosis, I always try to spot the use of it. I'm gonna go back and have another look at his stuff, without having a bias towards NLP or hypnosis. I have not seen the mall episode, though. You can go to youtube and find a ton of his videos. Find the one where he's on the train and makes the passengers forget what stop they're going to. I believe it's called The Train. In that clip they show him messing up, or maybe the person just doesn't "fall for it" would be a better way of putting it. There's also a clip of him in a wax museum playing himself. The people think he's just a wax figure. Over the speaker you hear him doing an induction(?) to have people "stuck" to the floor. It's great! I think it's clearly hypnosis, unless, again, I'm missing something. Making people forget things is something I am interested in doing. I've seen videos of people forgetting their names and numbers. I know how he does it, but I'm wondering, is there something I may be missing? I've never really tried it. I don't feel confident enough with my skills yet to try it. I hope you find the video, Antonio, and thanks guys for posting and clearing up some misconceptions I may of had.

Ryan

Antonio said:

I really really enjoy some of Derren Brown's material. I have been a fan of magic ever since I was quite young, and interested in hypnosis at an even younger age (around 8 or 9 years old?). Its been pointed out to me that Derren is a an entertainer first and foremost. Basically he uses the guise of hypnosis/nlp as a misdirection to what he is actually doing. There are some obvious things that he uses hypnosis for (getting that guy drunk, having that kid feel as if he had a toothache, etc).

The one that I really found entertaining is when he has an announcement at the mall and everyone raises their hand. Pesonally I feel that he probably pre-hypnotized a few people before hand (10 or 15 or whatever) and gave them post hypnotic suggestions that when they heard a certain command their arms would raise up. How does this explain everyone else raising their hands? "Social proof"

"Social proof, also known as informational social influence, is a psychological phenomenon that occurs in ambiguous social situations when people are unable to determine the appropriate mode of behavior. Making the assumption that surrounding people possess more knowledge about the situation, they will deem the behavior of others as appropriate or better informed."

Also, I'd like to see the video where he supposedly messes up. Can you link me up in here?

EDIT: When he states that he uses hypnosis/nlp/trickery, etc. he's already setting up the misdirection. Those familiar with hypnosis/nlp/etc. will start to look for it, sometimes totally missing what he is doing. As soon as I remembered that I forgot to add this, I saw James explanation - BRILLIANT!

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Permalink Reply by Antonio on December 12, 2009 at 3:36pm

Another "customer"? When would a customer have a high quality camera like that and be in there at the same exact time? Also by the shopkeep letting them film with another camera, possibly behind the counter, he's going along with it.

Conca said:

I have to disagree, watch it again and you'll see that the camera is outside the shop looking through the glass, and the other angle could easily be another "customer" or one of the staff could have been in on it. It wouldn't be that hard.

Conca

James Hazlerig said:

Watch the camera angles in some of his "pay with fake money" skits. Some of the shots are from behind the shop counter! Do you really think the shopkeeper didn't know what was happening?

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Permalink Reply by Lauren Wade on December 12, 2009 at 3:43pm

I think by the quotations he meant that a cameraman was posing as a customer, but I would think filming before getting permission would be asking for a suit...

Antonio said:

Another "customer"? When would a customer have a high quality camera like that and be in there at the same exact time? Also by the shopkeep letting them film with another camera, possibly behind the counter, he's going along with it.

Conca said:

I have to disagree, watch it again and you'll see that the camera is outside the shop looking through the glass, and the other angle could easily be another "customer" or one of the staff could have been in on it. It wouldn't be that hard.

Conca

James Hazlerig said:

Watch the camera angles in some of his "pay with fake money" skits. Some of the shots are from behind the shop counter! Do you really think the shopkeeper didn't know what was happening?

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Permalink Reply by Antonio on December 12, 2009 at 3:49pm

Yes it would probably be asking for all kinds of legal troubles. Also, don't you think the shopkeep would know that its not a regular customer? How many times do you have a person bust out a video camera in a store, much less two?

Lauren Wade said:

I think by the quotations he meant that a cameraman was posing as a customer, but I would think filming before getting permission would be asking for a suit...

Antonio said:

Another "customer"? When would a customer have a high quality camera like that and be in there at the same exact time? Also by the shopkeep letting them film with another camera, possibly behind the counter, he's going along with it.

Conca said:

I have to disagree, watch it again and you'll see that the camera is outside the shop looking through the glass, and the other angle could easily be another "customer" or one of the staff could have been in on it. It wouldn't be that hard.

Conca

James Hazlerig said:

Watch the camera angles in some of his "pay with fake money" skits. Some of the shots are from behind the shop counter! Do you really think the shopkeeper didn't know what was happening?

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Permalink Reply by Lauren Wade on December 12, 2009 at 4:53pm

About none, but hey...you never know xD.

Antonio said:

Yes it would probably be asking for all kinds of legal troubles. Also, don't you think the shopkeep would know that its not a regular customer? How many times do you have a person bust out a video camera in a store, much less two?

Lauren Wade said:

I think by the quotations he meant that a cameraman was posing as a customer, but I would think filming before getting permission would be asking for a suit...

Antonio said:

Another "customer"? When would a customer have a high quality camera like that and be in there at the same exact time? Also by the shopkeep letting them film with another camera, possibly behind the counter, he's going along with it.

Conca said:

I have to disagree, watch it again and you'll see that the camera is outside the shop looking through the glass, and the other angle could easily be another "customer" or one of the staff could have been in on it. It wouldn't be that hard.

Conca

James Hazlerig said:

Watch the camera angles in some of his "pay with fake money" skits. Some of the shots are from behind the shop counter! Do you really think the shopkeeper didn't know what was happening?

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Mooney on December 12, 2009 at 5:27pm

I bet this would be much more confusing if he had done this in a camera shop... lol

Lauren Wade said:

About none, but hey...you never know xD.

Antonio said:

Yes it would probably be asking for all kinds of legal troubles. Also, don't you think the shopkeep would know that its not a regular customer? How many times do you have a person bust out a video camera in a store, much less two?

Lauren Wade said:

I think by the quotations he meant that a cameraman was posing as a customer, but I would think filming before getting permission would be asking for a suit...

Antonio said:

Another "customer"? When would a customer have a high quality camera like that and be in there at the same exact time? Also by the shopkeep letting them film with another camera, possibly behind the counter, he's going along with it.

Conca said:

I have to disagree, watch it again and you'll see that the camera is outside the shop looking through the glass, and the other angle could easily be another "customer" or one of the staff could have been in on it. It wouldn't be that hard.

Conca

James Hazlerig said:

Watch the camera angles in some of his "pay with fake money" skits. Some of the shots are from behind the shop counter! Do you really think the shopkeeper didn't know what was happening?

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Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig on December 12, 2009 at 8:31pm

I suspect that he does use some anchoring and some hypnosis--certainly making people drunk without booze, or making them forget things, are standard parts of the demonstrational hypnotist's repertoire.

But the best way to pull off a lie is to insert truth. Like I said, he's brilliant at misdirection.

Another great example is his "lie detecting" skit in which he navigates barefoot and blindfolded through a dangerous obstacle course, supposedly depending on the possibly true or possibly false directions of an observer. Considering that mentalists have been driving cars blindfolded for years (using a trick to see under the blindfold, of course), I've no doubt that lie detecting had nothing to do with it. Yet his performance is so convincing that the mythology of the human lie detector has entered the public consciousness, spawning shows like "Lie to Me."

BTW, if you ever look at Derren Brown's book--it's more smoke and mirrors. The man's a genius.

Lauren Wade said:

As much as my friend is always calling him a "Con-artist" and as much as some of his tricks (like the lottery prediction) use TV tricks, many of my favorite skits use anchoring techniques that I use. I trust his word that he doesn't use actors, but that doesn't mean he doesn't talk with anyone beforehand. Although I love to use the drunk without drinking skit on my friends (except with soda, to make them hyper. It's fun.), I think he did some suggestibility test on them.

On another side, he re-enactment of the Milgram Experiment was interesting. Let's hope he doesn't re-enact the Stanford Prison Experiment.

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Permalink Reply by Connor Wyatt on December 13, 2009 at 1:29am

I didn't say he had to have a high quality camera. There is one on Derren's shirt (the white button) so there could have been a cameraman inside the shop with another secret camera.

Conca

Antonio said:

Yes it would probably be asking for all kinds of legal troubles. Also, don't you think the shopkeep would know that its not a regular customer? How many times do you have a person bust out a video camera in a store, much less two?

Lauren Wade said:

I think by the quotations he meant that a cameraman was posing as a customer, but I would think filming before getting permission would be asking for a suit...

Antonio said:

Another "customer"? When would a customer have a high quality camera like that and be in there at the same exact time? Also by the shopkeep letting them film with another camera, possibly behind the counter, he's going along with it.

Conca said:

I have to disagree, watch it again and you'll see that the camera is outside the shop looking through the glass, and the other angle could easily be another "customer" or one of the staff could have been in on it. It wouldn't be that hard.

Conca

James Hazlerig said:

Watch the camera angles in some of his "pay with fake money" skits. Some of the shots are from behind the shop counter! Do you really think the shopkeeper didn't know what was happening?

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Permalink Reply by Jon Rhodes on December 13, 2009 at 3:11am

Derren Brown is a brilliant entertainer and what he often does is use legitimate NLP and hypnosis techniques, as a misdirection, to hide that he is actually using traditional magic. Like James said before, he also misdirects us by occasionally using NLP and hypnosis without magic. So you can never be certain what technique he is using. This means that you cannot really learn much about NLP and hypnosis from watching him, so just sit back and enjoy his shows!

I actually wrote an article on Derren Brown some time ago, which can be found here - Derren Brown Article

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Permalink Reply by Graham Old on December 13, 2009 at 5:48am

Hi Conca,

I think he's an excellent magician and a fantastic entertainer.

If you ever get to see him live, go for it! You won't be disappointed.

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