Dissociation VS Hypnosis

Dissociation has been my drug of choice for most of my life. I'm very good at. I relied on it for survival in childhood, altough I was not really aware of what the missing blocks of time meant until about three years ago.

As a very young child, I thought of this as "going to my safe place." Later, it was just "leaving." I could "leave" on purpose, but often it happened whether I inended it or not, spurned by abuse, a panic attack or even fairly common kinds of stress.

I've been told that I am very easy to hypnotise and that I fall very deeply into trance. I wonder if this is because I'm so well versed in dissociating, which makes me question what the dofferemce is between the state of mind known as "trance" and the one I'm in when I lose time?

Hypnosis has been a wonderful tool for me, in therapy, because when I am "under" I can speak freely about things that, at other times, seem to jump into the shadows just before I can actually see them. Maybe hypnosis is kind of a bridge between the compartmentalized aspects of self? Maybe more of my mind is "awake" when I'm in session with my therapist and so I can communicate with parts of self that I normally am not aware of?

Since my therapist has started moving more and more into self-hypnosis and has been encouraging me to do more self-guided meditation in order to work through problems with my "inner family", I've been reading more about hypnosis. It seems important to understand exactly what is going on if I'm really going to be able to do this on my own. I understand that is the goal - moving from having appointments at least once (usually twice) a week to (eventually) being able to work through internal issues on my own.

I'm not sure how clear I'm being here... I feel like I'm trying to hold water in my open hands when I talk about this, sometimes. Basically, I'm asking for input on the differeneces and similarites between dissociation and hypnotic states.

thanks

Favorite

0 members favorited this

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Graham Old on August 28, 2010 at 12:23pm

It's a fascinating question, which I suspect you'll receive a variety of answers on. The truth is, us hypnotists can't even agree on what hypnosis is, so we're gonna have a hard time agreeing on an answer to your question.

As I see it, dissociation is an example of one type of trance. That is, in order to dissociate your mind goes into a 'trance', whatever that might mean.

It's interesting to see if you would be able to go into an associated trance as easily. It could be that that is a separate skill you need to develop, or you may already have a foot in the door, due to your ability to dissociate.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Aino / Akpolarmom on August 28, 2010 at 1:58pm

Shen, Very interesting lay up. I am also fascinated by the different states we can find ourselves in when it comes to association and dissociation. People often dissociate either as a defense mechanism, but I read that strangely enough a lot of us tend to dissociate from pleasant things and associate with feeling bad ( Bandler mentioned how we love to find misery.)

Recently I discovered that there seem to be different types of dissociation, and that it seem to be different for different people. I found that I could dissociate while in trance, but also that though I was clearly watching myself (like from a distance or time line etc), I could also still find myself associated emotionally and kinetically with both parts. In one exercise with a friend I was actually watching 3 of me still feeling the physical placement of my feet in 3 different environments as well as the feeling of floating in the air watching #3 in the dissociation while she watched # 2, watching #1. For me that would be a problem if I was to dissociate from an unpleasant or traumatic experience as it seems like I am always feeling for both even if I am visually removed.
I also firmly believe that that skill can be an asset, as it can help me make future casting and visualizations even more real.

I am hoping Shen that your quest to understand the mechanics and workings of these tools will not keep you in a loop of the quest itself, instead of putting your mind to work for you! Sometimes the reasoning behind something is not as important as using the tool for changing the issues you want to change.
Good Luck,
Aino

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Antoine Pruyssers on August 28, 2010 at 2:15pm

Your question reminds me of what a friend of mine asked a while back, when we were at the beach.
I just came back from swimming, and he asked me:"Is the water warm enough?"
The only answer I could give him was:"compared to what?"
"The only way for you to know the water is a "nice" temperature, is to just jump in, and feel it yourself!"

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by AJ on August 28, 2010 at 2:32pm

"Dissociation refers to one part of a person's mental or physical experience functioning distinctly and independently from another part. This usually entails the person's mind dividing itself up in some way, such as visual images being distinct from emotions or, in its extreme, even two or more separate personalities sharing one mind. However, dissociation can also involve one part of the person's body experienced as being separate from another part. It can also involve a person feeling a sense of detachment from another part. It can also involve a person feeling a sense of detachment from the immediate physical environment and the events taking place in it..."

Source: The Handbook of Hypnotic Phenomena in Psychotherapy by Edgette and Edgette

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on August 28, 2010 at 7:08pm

Hello Shen,

Regarding your comment about engaging more in self-hypnosis. This is wonderful to do! I use trance to achieve desired states quite often, sometimes spontaneously. But, I also recognize that there may be times when I need assistance....someone here once wrote (sorry, can't recall who right now) that while I may be able to change a tire, I need help to move the bus!

I'm a practitioner of martial arts, along with my son, and I recall, that when he was about 8 and heard that there are different degrees of black belt, he asked, "Does it ever end?!" I think, like the martial arts, self discovery is a life long journey. I'm enjoying the trip, how 'bout you?

Best wishes,

Kelley

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shen Client on August 29, 2010 at 8:06am

Now I'm going to have to look up exactly what you mean by "associated trance". Thanks for the input.

Graham Old said:

It's a fascinating question, which I suspect you'll receive a variety of answers on. The truth is, us hypnotists can't even agree on what hypnosis is, so we're gonna have a hard time agreeing on an answer to your question.

As I see it, dissociation is an example of one type of trance. That is, in order to dissociate your mind goes into a 'trance', whatever that might mean.

It's interesting to see if you would be able to go into an associated trance as easily. It could be that that is a separate skill you need to develop, or you may already have a foot in the door, due to your ability to dissociate.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shen Client on August 29, 2010 at 8:17am

When you say "people dissociate from pleasant things" I'm wondcering what you mean. I know that I have always dissociated during sex, but it is related to past abuse and not anything pleasant in the present. Maybe you are referring more topeople not noticing when things are good and only "waking up" when something goes wrong. There are a lot of people like that... the "glass half-empty" people. It's sort of like they have a higher expectation of what normal is so that pleasant becomes the baseline.

I'm not sure if that is what you meant or not.
It's fascinating to me to hear your description of dissociating in trance. Often, early in the session, I feel like the adult in the scenarios my therapist sets up. Shortly thereafter, I see several of me as distinct individuals - the adults, children of various ages - as if I am outside of all of them. (This always makes me wonder who "I" refers to when I try to write about it.) Further in the session, I become the child parts that need attention, work through issues they had when I was a child, give them assurance that the adult me will be able to meet their needs now, etc. When I come out of trance, I feel very much as if I've been the child and I am returning to that elusive "I" again.

And, you're right. I do have a tendancy to spend a lot of time intellectualizing things. Even so, there is so much I don't understand about this, right now, so I am going to give myself some leaway on that for now. I work hard at this... my therapist tells me I've done eight years of work in less than three years. I work at it every day on my own and about 80 times a year with my therapist. I'm fairly driven to get to a point of feeling more complete all the time.

Aino / Akpolarmom said:

Shen, Very interesting lay up. I am also fascinated by the different states we can find ourselves in when it comes to association and dissociation. People often dissociate either as a defense mechanism, but I read that strangely enough a lot of us tend to dissociate from pleasant things and associate with feeling bad ( Bandler mentioned how we love to find misery.)

Recently I discovered that there seem to be different types of dissociation, and that it seem to be different for different people. I found that I could dissociate while in trance, but also that though I was clearly watching myself (like from a distance or time line etc), I could also still find myself associated emotionally and kinetically with both parts. In one exercise with a friend I was actually watching 3 of me still feeling the physical placement of my feet in 3 different environments as well as the feeling of floating in the air watching #3 in the dissociation while she watched # 2, watching #1. For me that would be a problem if I was to dissociate from an unpleasant or traumatic experience as it seems like I am always feeling for both even if I am visually removed.
I also firmly believe that that skill can be an asset, as it can help me make future casting and visualizations even more real.

I am hoping Shen that your quest to understand the mechanics and workings of these tools will not keep you in a loop of the quest itself, instead of putting your mind to work for you! Sometimes the reasoning behind something is not as important as using the tool for changing the issues you want to change.
Good Luck,
Aino

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shen Client on August 29, 2010 at 8:22am

Thank you. That's a pretty good, broad description of what dissociating is. I suspect many people have experienced several of those levels of dissociation. I've experienced all of them. Do you think that book would be a good one for me to pick up?

Doc Regal said:

"Dissociation refers to one part of a person's mental or physical experience functioning distinctly and independently from another part. This usually entails the person's mind dividing itself up in some way, such as visual images being distinct from emotions or, in its extreme, even two or more separate personalities sharing one mind. However, dissociation can also involve one part of the person's body experienced as being separate from another part. It can also involve a person feeling a sense of detachment from another part. It can also involve a person feeling a sense of detachment from the immediate physical environment and the events taking place in it..."

Source: The Handbook of Hypnotic Phenomena in Psychotherapy by Edgette and Edgette

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shen Client on August 29, 2010 at 8:28am

Thank you, Kelley. Believe me, I am in no hurry to be on my own. I am very attached to my therapist and often it seems I depend on her too much. She has changed my life, and not only because of the DNMS work and other forms of therapy we've done together. She has given me what was never given to me as a child - all the time and interaction I need. She allows me to send her emails (sometimes several times a day) and she reads them all. She responds usually once in the evening, letting me know she's read what I sent.

Feeling heard, understood, and valued has made as much difference as anything else.

So, I do believe it is important for me to "grow up" and learn how to do these things for myself but I am in no way saying I don't want or need her help. It's hard for me to imagine a time when I won't write to her every day.... but I think it's important that I work towards that. Right now, she is out of town and it's been a real struggle to hold on to all of my thoughts since she is not checking email until Wed. I sent her two emails, anyway, as the mental noise got too loud for me to handle and I know she will read them when she gets home.

I love that I am learning to have these "family meetings" on my own, and while I don't expect there to be an end, I do anticipate a time when there will be less frantic need involved.

Kelley Woods said:

Hello Shen,

Regarding your comment about engaging more in self-hypnosis. This is wonderful to do! I use trance to achieve desired states quite often, sometimes spontaneously. But, I also recognize that there may be times when I need assistance....someone here once wrote (sorry, can't recall who right now) that while I may be able to change a tire, I need help to move the bus!

I'm a practitioner of martial arts, along with my son, and I recall, that when he was about 8 and heard that there are different degrees of black belt, he asked, "Does it ever end?!" I think, like the martial arts, self discovery is a life long journey. I'm enjoying the trip, how 'bout you?

Best wishes,

Kelley

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shen Client on August 29, 2010 at 8:59am

Kelley, I wanted to look up the quote to get it right.
"As long as you live, keep learning how to live." Seneca the younger (roman philosopher/writer)

Shen Client said:

Thank you, Kelley. Believe me, I am in no hurry to be on my own. I am very attached to my therapist and often it seems I depend on her too much. She has changed my life, and not only because of the DNMS work and other forms of therapy we've done together. She has given me what was never given to me as a child - all the time and interaction I need. She allows me to send her emails (sometimes several times a day) and she reads them all. She responds usually once in the evening, letting me know she's read what I sent.

Feeling heard, understood, and valued has made as much difference as anything else.

So, I do believe it is important for me to "grow up" and learn how to do these things for myself but I am in no way saying I don't want or need her help. It's hard for me to imagine a time when I won't write to her every day.... but I think it's important that I work towards that. Right now, she is out of town and it's been a real struggle to hold on to all of my thoughts since she is not checking email until Wed. I sent her two emails, anyway, as the mental noise got too loud for me to handle and I know she will read them when she gets home.

I love that I am learning to have these "family meetings" on my own, and while I don't expect there to be an end, I do anticipate a time when there will be less frantic need involved.

Kelley Woods said:
Hello Shen,

Regarding your comment about engaging more in self-hypnosis. This is wonderful to do! I use trance to achieve desired states quite often, sometimes spontaneously. But, I also recognize that there may be times when I need assistance....someone here once wrote (sorry, can't recall who right now) that while I may be able to change a tire, I need help to move the bus!

I'm a practitioner of martial arts, along with my son, and I recall, that when he was about 8 and heard that there are different degrees of black belt, he asked, "Does it ever end?!" I think, like the martial arts, self discovery is a life long journey. I'm enjoying the trip, how 'bout you?

Best wishes,

Kelley

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rob McKeon on August 29, 2010 at 9:01am

In relation to wondering if you are a good hypnotic client due to a well developed ability to dissociate you may be interested in reading the following chapter by Theodore X. Barber from the book Clinical Hypnosis and Self-Regulation: Cognitive-Behavioral Perspectives (Dissociation, Trauma, Memory, and Hypnosis Book Series).

In it Barber talks about 3 different types of good hypnotic clients: the fantasy prone, the amnesia prone, and those with a positive set of attitudes, motivations, and expectations of hypnosis. The amnesia group has been found to be contain a larger number who have experienced childhood abuse.

Here is the Amazon link to it, you can read several pages of it there:
http://www.amazon.com/Clinical-Hypnosis-Self-Regulation-Cognitive-B...

Or read his summary of his view here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6481075/Barber-Hypnosis-A-Mature-View-1999

It may be considered an integration of trance state, neo-dissociation, and socio-cognitive / cognitive behavioural perspectives insofar as he recognises the heterogeneity of the client population and suggests that different processes may be functioning with 3 distinct different types of hypnosis client.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by AJ on August 29, 2010 at 9:27am

If you like to read well written books, yes.

Shen Client said:

Thank you. That's a pretty good, broad description of what dissociating is. I suspect many people have experienced several of those levels of dissociation. I've experienced all of them. Do you think that book would be a good one for me to pick up?

Doc Regal said:
"Dissociation refers to one part of a person's mental or physical experience functioning distinctly and independently from another part. This usually entails the person's mind dividing itself up in some way, such as visual images being distinct from emotions or, in its extreme, even two or more separate personalities sharing one mind. However, dissociation can also involve one part of the person's body experienced as being separate from another part. It can also involve a person feeling a sense of detachment from another part. It can also involve a person feeling a sense of detachment from the immediate physical environment and the events taking place in it..."

Source: The Handbook of Hypnotic Phenomena in Psychotherapy by Edgette and Edgette