Does the Sichort state really exist?

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Permalink Reply by Ines Simpson on June 8, 2011 at 7:27pm

I have great respect for all the hypnotists who joined the discussion. I have learned much from people like Gil Boyne. I teach a course at the NGH Convention called " Working interactively in Esdaile  and Beyond" . My point of view is when we say "deep" it is something the conscious mind can understand. and our inner mind knows exactly what it all means. I believe we go inward more than down --but really all that doesn't matter. I have taken people to these states  many times and as far as I 'm concerned it is about the bypass of the critical factor and this definitely works better as you go into esdaile and beyond. I don't think we know enough as yet about the mind and the more people that work out of the box the better our profession can evolve.

It was thought that people in esdaile were unable to respond but what I get from those I have worked with including students ,clients and other hypnotists is that when you are in esdaile it's that you can't be bothered to do it.

Some believs they have responded even though physically there was no response.I recommend you find someone who could take you there and you experience it--you then will know if those states exist--if you are the NGh Convention this year Pablo - I would be happy to do that.

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Permalink Reply by Don on June 9, 2011 at 2:57am

Let's just re-frame it as experiential theater and present whatever experience the client would consider to be a masterpiece in terms of their needs of the moment.

I'm working with a bi-polar right now who needs to feel peace and calm -- so I pull out all the stops, and she is delighted. And guess what I call it? Hyperempiria, of course which, (thanks to Brian's insightful comments a while back) I now define as a condition of intensified and concentrated exerience, regardless of whether you get there through an expressly hyperempiric induction or by means of a  standard hypnotic induction technique.  But I still think we've got a new art form on our hands -- human experience itself.  Perhaps the masterpieces we compose in this new art form need to be individually devised for each person in that particular situation and at that particular moment in time, and catalyzed by an appropriate induction. Then we can  simply start using it for greatest effectiveness.

 

Do you love me too, Kelley?

 

Don

Brian David Phillips said:

 
Depth - in my opinion, and it's okay if you disagree with me, I don't mind if you agree to disagree on this - is better considered less about "depth of trance" then as a form of intensifying imaginative involvement within the hypnotic experience.

To me - and as I mentioned in my Hypnosummit presentation today as well as on many occasions elsewhere - the Esdaile State (Hypnotic Coma by Dave Elman) or Sichort State (Ulrta-Depth adaptation of Walter Sichort's work by James Ramey) or Ultra-Height (Jerry Kein's take) or even what I do with ecstasy or higher self are all simply suggested states. They are less independent states in and of themselves then they are compliance to suggestions to feel certain ways or experience particular phenomena. It's all hypnosis is hypnosis is hypnosis with suggestions. You want someone to feel ultra-depth? Then hypnotize 'em and tell 'em to experience that feeling of ultra-depth with a description of the phenomena associated with the suggested state and that's what they experience (no need for a perfectly worded script that must be parroted exactly, just any effective induction with the suggestion will do). You want 'em to feel ultra-height or ecstasy or ultramegalove or any positive emotional flood state then do the same thing. I include the hypnotic coma here too as the process Elman suggests is less an independent state than it is a deepener process. Run the Esdaile protocol with someone who does not know the symptoms of the hypnotic coma and it's just a deepener (a good one, but a deepener nonetheless) but run it with someone who has been told what to expect (as Walter Sichort suggested to his own trance partner when demonstrating the phenomena of ultradepth) and there will be a startling difference in responsiveness, particularly if you run the process with ten folks one way and ten the other.

This is not a bad thing . . . actually, it's pretty good as by understanding that these are all suggested states we can create even more useful adaptations of positive emotional flood states for all sorts of nifty purposes.

 
Of course, without the over-reaching claims some attribute to the state, such a positive emotional flood state can be extremely beneficial to a trance partner and is well worth practicing . . . I would suggest that it's a response to suggestion rather than some other state . . . sure, that suggested state is qualitatively different from other suggested states but this does not make it a non-hypnotic process because of that.

 

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on June 9, 2011 at 6:19am

You know I do, Don!! In my mind, you, me and hyperempiria dance hand in hand! xo

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Permalink Reply by Don on June 9, 2011 at 10:45am

Now THAT's the kind of experiential masterpiece that I'm I'm talking about!! xo

Don

Kelley Woods said:

You know I do, Don!! In my mind, you, me and hyperempiria dance hand in hand! xo

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on June 10, 2011 at 7:05pm

You know ... There is no depth to the deepest trance possible ..... (Otherwise known as the COLE conundrum)

 

      HUgh Cole

         The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet

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