Easy Answer

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Permalink Reply by Karen Lockman on May 6, 2009 at 5:33pm

Hi HypnoRich: Sounds like you're one of "Jerry's Kids." Yes? Please let me know at klockman@comcast.net. Thanks, Karen

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Permalink Reply by Aino / Akpolarmom on May 6, 2009 at 10:29pm

That makes sense.... Now how many times has most of us repleted our bad habit, revisited the fear trigger, etc. to ingrain it. Is it on that premise a wonder that we just need to hear a suggestion more than once, to make it 'stick'? I would add that if you can include both the conscious and unconscious minds in the process, you may be even further ahead. I have found that discussing the idea for that kind of suggestions with the client before and after the trance session, also helps a lot.

Good post, Aino

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on May 7, 2009 at 5:37am

Hi Rich,

Are you talking about compounding or direct drive/repetition? Somehow, I feel that they're not the same but I haven't been able to get anyone to explain it to me. There's something on Cal Banyan's information that suggests that there is another component than repetition but I could never get an answer from anyone.

Cal talks about it by example: Suggestion: "every time I pull on my tie, you will close your eyes and go back deeper into trance" Now it seemed as if he layered that in with suggestion, like "you are now a non-smoker and will remain a non-smoker," between each deepening. People talk about layering and compounding but no one has ever been able to tell me what "layering" is or how "compounding" differs from repetition or direct drive.

Elman also mentions it but doesn't explain it. In both cases, the statement has been made that compounding is not the same as repetition or direct drive but didn't explain what it WAS.

If someone knows, can they share?

Thanks,

Susan

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on May 7, 2009 at 5:49am

That is a great reminder HypnoRich. You are right, it is such a boring thing for the hypnotist to do, that I think it can get overlooked. It just seems too simple, especially when playing with fancier things is more intellectually satisfying to a hypnotist.

Anyway, there seem to be different views about what "compounding" is, but I think you covered it by including the "direct drive" suggestion... realizing that you could compound the "direct drive" throughout the session. There is another view that effective compounding requires some participation on the client's part... but I think Mr. Kein also addresses that by suggesting that the client shout along with the direct drive statement (silently in their own mind).

I have to admit that a difficulty I have with this repeated compounding of repeated statements, is that I sometimes find it awkward to fit into the flow of a session. I also sometimes have to fight against my own disbelief that something so simple could have an impact, and wouldn't be rejected as too simplistic by a client (even though I know that in trance they often want and need to hear very simple messages). Thanks for the reminder.

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on May 7, 2009 at 6:28am

PS. to clarify the statement "you could compound the 'direct drive' throughout the session", I mean that in context of one view of what compounding means, namely Mr. Kein's view that as suggestions get stacked in the session, the earlier suggestions become more "powerful" (whatever that means), while each later suggestion is relatively weaker. I think that principle would apply that to each set of "direct drives"? So if you use direct drives in a manner which involves client participation and also stack the sets throughout your session, then that should cover the various meanings of what compounding means.

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Permalink Reply by bruce on May 7, 2009 at 10:35pm

Hi Susan,

I too had some confusion over what compounding really was. I should really go look it up before replying to you, but here it goes anyway. I think that instead of calling it compounding, ' linking ' is a better word.

And example of linking would be: As I snap my fingers over and over, your arm will drop, bit by bit. As it your hand moves down, you begin to feel a warm, pleasant sense of relaxation in your chest (link). When your hand touches the arm of the chair, you'll feel so pleasant and relaxed that you'll just want to let out a big sigh (another link). When you let out that sigh, you'll find that the muscles around your eyes just become really soft and slack (another link).

Okay, you get the idea, and I just kinda made this up off the top of my head. But the essential formula for compounding as I understand it is this: As x happens, so does y. or... As x becomes less/more, then y becomes less/more.

When you link or compound in this way, your suggestions take a deeper hold. This is especially true if you start out with a suggestion that you know your client is responsive to, and link it to a new suggestion.

Was I clear enough?

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on May 8, 2009 at 4:06am

bruce,

"linking" is a great way of thinking about this concept (at least this version of the concept)! I would go further and suggest that it means "linking" the suggestion to stimulate the client's nervous system in some way (where "y" is some response that the client is supposed to think or feel).

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on May 8, 2009 at 4:48am

I think I am getting the picture from this thread of what people are meaning by compounding and linking suggestions.

And on that basis, would like to suggest another way of making this even more effective.

set up a self perpetuating loop of suggestions. starting with somethng that is already happening and verifiable, and linking that to someting else which is a logical consequence of this, and then linking that to someting else, and eventually linking back to the first suggestion.

For example: having established hypnosis and relaxation and had feedback from the client that they are indeed relaxing well and feeling calm...

"you are now relaxing very well indeed, and because you know that you are relaxing so well now... so you know, that after this session is over it is only natural that you are still feeling mentally calm and physically relaxed then. and this feeling of calmness and relaxation is staying with you, and becoming more and more a part of you as each day is going by, and helping you in everything you do"

A leads to B leads to C.

reiterate.

"Yes after this session is over, and as each day is going by, you are feeling more and more mentally calm..." (expand on this to fit client specifics)

Reiterate, and link to Physical relaxation:

"And as the days are going by, and you are feeling more and more mentally calm... so it is only natural that you are also feeling and becoming more and more physically relaxed..." (expand on this to fit client specifics)

Reiterate and link to Confidence:

And as the days are going by, and you are becoming more and more menally calm and more and more physically relaxed... so it is only logical that you are also feeling and becoming more and more confident, as confidence is just a combination of mental calmness, and physiacl relaxation in whatever situation you might find yourself ." (expand on this to fit client specifics)

Reiterate, and link to sleeping better at night (as a reault of being more calm relaxed and confident)

Reiterate, and link to waking up feeling more refreshed, more alert, more calm relaxed and confident.

ie. loop back to the earlier suggestions.

so in summary:
A leads to B.
B leads to C.
Cleads to D
D leads to E
E leads back to A

A self reinforcing loop of positive suggestions.

Hope this is helpful.

Note: The specific example given is drawn from the work of my early teacher and mentor Peter Blythe. (Self-hypnotism : its potential and practice 1976)
who in turn drew on the work of various well known english and american therapists.

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Permalink Reply by Katherine Zimmerman on May 8, 2009 at 5:47am

Fable, great example of looping suggestions.

When I deliver suggestions like this at the end of the session (I do a lot of emotional release work) I lightly tap their 3rd eye with the suggestion that they focus on the tapping and just let go of the words. They drop into a much deeper hypnotic state and have no idea consciously what I've said so that they can't negate the suggestions. It's very effective and most of them report amnesia for that last part of the session. It's also a great second convincer as many still expect to be "knocked out" even after my thorough pre-talk.

Katherine Zimmerman
www.trancetime.com

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on May 8, 2009 at 6:10am

Thanks Katherine,

I would prefer my clients to be aware of the suggestions for a couple of reasons;

1. Because the flow of suggestions make logical sense
they are very readilly acceptable
to the conscious part of the mind,
and are accepted far more easilly
if they are encouraged to listen consciously.

2. I am generally not in favour of slipping in stuff
that the client is not consciously aware of.
If I am working in alignment
with what the client wants and needs,
and I have built up the appropriate levels of rapport,
then there is no point in hiding the good work.

3. I am coming to the opinion,
that amnesia of what happens in hypnosis
is actually detrimental to rapport and trust.
It leaves people wondering what might have happened,
what I said, what they might have said or done.
I actually tell clients that (if they are paying attention),
they will be able to remember consciously,
eveything that has happened.

Now having said that last one,
I await a string of people
attatched to use of amnesia,
strongly putting the opposite view.

Love and hugs,

Fable

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on May 8, 2009 at 6:42am

"Now having said that last one,
I await a string of people
attatched to use of amnesia,
strongly putting the opposite view."

interesting, i bet you will be proven right... I am creating a new discussion for this topic because i am curious about it myself. I am still trying to figure out effective ways to use (or maybe not use) amnesia as part of process. PS. non-attachment is good, don't you think? but it is even better to be non-attached to the idea of non-attachment. whee!

edit: oops, never mind, i just did a search on the amnesia topic and found an old discussion about it. ta ta for now!

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Permalink Reply by Katherine Zimmerman on May 8, 2009 at 6:48am

The clients who don't remember what I said at the end are happy to have "gone away" for a bit and, since we already have good rapport and trust, not remembering has never been an issue.


Katherine

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