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elman induction for a group
can you tell me how you 'lose the numbers' in a group setting. thanks
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Paul Ramsay on
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I "cheat" Janice, and do a stepdown count from 10 to 1 instead. I'm not getting confirmation of amnesia that way, but I still get some deepening that way and can move on from there. Did it yesterday with 100 people at a university that invited me in to guest speak. With demonstrations like that it works just fine.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Baboch on -
when you do the dave elman induction for a group, you skip the part where they forget the number, because there are already enough convincers. if you believe that you need somnabulism to create certain phenomena or work, then whatever you do you won't get your results until you have somnambulism. but if you think that the subject can either be hypnotized or not and if he is, any thing possible with hypnosis can be achieved.
just a shift in your belief makes a huge change: i've had a subject who wouldn't lose the numbers and i couldn't give him the so called deep hypnotic phenomena, but when i heared what i said above from a master hypnotist, i decided to give it try (while actually believing it) and it worked! after an instant induction and couple of deepeners, i gave him amnesia and i was proud of it.
Chris
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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on -
That is actually a very good way to do it, The elman induction is actually my favorite induction, but when you know it well it is easy to break the rules and get the desired outcome. You don't always need Amnesia to get somnambulisn. Amnesia is a hullucination construct, Once you have done a deepening as Paul suggests you can simply continue to fractionate at each opportunity and obtain your desired outcome
Hugh Cole
The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet
Paul Ramsay said:I "cheat" Janice, and do a stepdown count from 10 to 1 instead. I'm not getting confirmation of amnesia that way, but I still get some deepening that way and can move on from there. Did it yesterday with 100 people at a university that invited me in to guest speak. With demonstrations like that it works just fine.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Kennedy on -
Others can correct me, but the concept of "losing the numbers" is from the modified, not the original Elman induction. Here is a blog on that subject http://www.freehypnosiscommunity.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2508582%...
I always had trouble losing the numbers until the hypnotist said, keep counting down until the numbers become unimportant. That is closer to Elman's original construct (and it worked).
Bill
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Permalink Reply by janice marshall on -
many thanks for all your inputs (and to anyone else who adds later) - all very useful info, thanks
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on -
You don't need to loose the numbers. Elman was wrong. The eye closure is an illogical act and is in itself the acceptance of suggestion and therefore the induction.
http://www.jonathanchase.com/elman-eye-closure-jonathan-chase-style/
Personally with groups I use the magnetic hands, much simpler and you can really see who has gone or not.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Baboch on
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I have Dave Elman's book hypnotherapy, and in it Elman uses the number amnesia as we all know it (at 98 or 95 there will be no more numbers.)
Bill Kennedy said:Others can correct me, but the concept of "losing the numbers" is from the modified, not the original Elman induction. Here is a blog on that subject http://www.freehypnosiscommunity.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2508582%...
I always had trouble losing the numbers until the hypnotist said, keep counting down until the numbers become unimportant. That is closer to Elman's original construct (and it worked).
Bill
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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on -
Hello Janice,
Not only am I going to recommend forgetting, forgetting the numbers - I recommend forgetting demonstrating the Elman induction. My recommendation is based on Client/Patient Centered approaches being the new normal and my opinion that Elman's induction is a dated operator/therapist/doctor centered approach to hypnotism.
Before, continuing - Let me make it clear - I mean no disrespect to the hypnosis practitioners who are effectively using Elman's theories and techniques to help their clients. In my opinion being effective is not enough, especially if your goal is to help the people in your group discover that "Modern Day Hypnotic practice is safe, effective and an attractive way to help them help themselves.
Let me know if you would like more info and ideas along these lines...
Michael E.
PS - I agree with Jonathan - I have found that Magnetic Hands is more effective for group activities and demonstrations --
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Permalink Reply by James Malone on -
Janice, I sometimes use the group Elman induction when doing group demos after leading them through various suggestibility experiments. As others mentioned you modify the lose the numbers part.
I don't use the Elman in private sessions but I like it for groups because it is quick and simple. With groups sometimes you cannot be assured of a quiet environment or comfortable seating, so a longer induction might not work as well.
I don't get hung up on whether "somnambulism" has been achieved since I am not a big fan of hypnotic depth scales in the first place. What I really want to do is show prospective clients that if you follow some simple instructions you can learn to relax. Jim
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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on -
Janice,
This induction is a basic Elman expectancy induction, that works VERY well with groups. (no lose the numbers requirement)
http://www.hypnothoughts.com/video/experience-hypnosis
http://www.hypnothoughts.com/video/experience-hypnosis-2
I hope you find value with it
John
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Permalink Reply by janice marshall on
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once again, thanks to all. i use elman in 1 to 1 but am considering working with up to 4 at a time and wanted to get my head round it
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