Extreme Shyness and Embarrassment

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on August 9, 2010 at 10:58am

Oh, gosh! I had completely forgotten about the motion of emotion technique. I will absolutely use it with at least the 50'ish woman. The other 2 are teenagers, 13 and 17. The 17 yr old is phobic about embarrassing himself. The 13 yr old is just shy, barely communicative but no phobias yet. Would she (13 yr old) grow out of it? Probably not without help. Both her father and grandmother are still extremely shy and it has held them back career wise. Her mother died when she was 3 and she has no conscious memory of her but has been told that her mother was shy as well. I think the 17 yr old can do this technique but I doubt the 13 yr old can.

The 13 yr old is almost non-responsive. Her home life seems deprived of much stimulation. She doesn't listen to music--has no boom box or MP3 player. She doesn't have friends over. She doesn't get to go to friends houses to visit or for sleep overs. She does not go to church or have other social outlets with others her age away from school. Daddy and Grandma both work full time and seem to have little time or energy left over for her. Weekends are no better for her. Her social interactions are limited to occasional visits with her cousins. I plan to tak to Grandma about getting her some social interaction. But, there are few outlets in the part of town where she lives other than church youth groups--something they have both avoided due to their shyness. I can work with her but unless she has the opportunity to socialize with kids her own age I'm not sure it will do much good. School started today so she is in anguish. Maybe that will be the motivator for her to want to release this. We'll see.

Marc Carlin said:

Hi Melissa,

That could be a great place to start with her. Build up her hope.

I like what Kelley and Kevin have pointed out. For the direct suggestion part of the process I like the Heartland ego strengthening approach because it teaches them to focus outside of themselves where all the action is happening. Telling them consciously that others are more focused on the same fears that the client is dealing with is a way of opening the door to acceptance when those type of suggestions are used during trance.

I like to see if there is any place in their life where they stop being shy. What are they doing when they are not shy. I'll get a sense of when that is and then while in trance have them find a circumstance where they aren't shy. I'll anchor that state kinesthetically and increase it as much as possible. I'll then direct them to multiple "power" states and stack the anchor.

You can then work to collapse the old anchor of shyness, and/or do mental rehearsal with them noticing the very first beginnings of that shy state (going back even before they are consciously aware they are shy) and quickly replace it with the power state. As if the initial shy state is the trigger for the power state. Wash rinse and repeat.

If they aren't able to find a state where they have had no shyness then I have them find someone that they feel has the attitude that they wish they had. I then have them put their head on that persons body and experience their experiences and take it from there.

I like using the circle of excellence at the end of the session leading them into the future with the new installation in place.

There is also a technique that I was introduced to at the NGH a few years ago by Melissa Tiers, and since reading about it in Bandler's latest books, I've been using it quite successfully. It's using the motion of the emotion (the spinning) to manipulate the emotion. I set up a kind of polarity exercise with that technique and the emotion, which seems to give the client a mental tool that they can use to change their emotional state on demand. It seems to be working nicely.

Hope that helps and your power (all of it) is back on!

Marc
Melissa J. Roth said:

These are all wonderful suggestions. Unfortunately, I didn't get to try any of them. I had just started the induction for the first of the 3 when a thunderstorm knocked the power out in the entire area, not just the building. It was an impressive storm and everyone in the building moved to the center of the building away from all the plate glass windows. I ended up rescheduling all 3 clients for this coming week so I have some time to mull over what I want to do for each of them. The one that concerns me most is a 50'ish woman whom I believe is totally demoralized by her situation. She does not have hope that she can be any different than she is now and is only coming because her husband insists. She is very willing to participate and will do whatever I tell her. But, she is simply without hope of her own. I ache for her.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com on August 9, 2010 at 11:39am

Hey Melissa,

Something just hit me... It's been soooo many years now that I completely forgot, but I used to be one the shyest kids you could ever meet (reading about the 13 year old triggered my memory).

In case you didn't know, until about the age of 10 I was raised by a mother with schizophrenia

When I was a teen (and younger), I was so shy and never left the house, was addicted to tv, didn't listen to much music, was basically a mini hermit.

Anyway, I remember my parents (father and step-mother, that got soul custody of me and my sister and brother when I was 10) sending me to a therapist when I was about 13 and she actually helped by simply reminding me every time she came into the waiting room, to just say "Hello". As simple as it may sound, just having her teach me some of the utmost basics helped.

Point being, sometimes if we don't have people teach us "how" to be sociable, we never really pick it up...

I didn't benefit tremendously from that therapist, but she did help with what training and skillset she had, which mainly consisted of "talking about things" and playing "The Un-game".

You've got a considerably larger "toolbox" than her, so I'm sure you'll do fantastic!

Oh, and what finally worked for me? Exactly what you're helping your clients with, only I didn't discover it until I was about 21... And it didn't happen overnight (so go easy on yourself and be patient), but it did happen considerably faster than any other approach...


Melissa J. Roth said:

Oh, gosh! I had completely forgotten about the motion of emotion technique. I will absolutely use it with at least the 50'ish woman. The other 2 are teenagers, 13 and 17. The 17 yr old is phobic about embarrassing himself. The 13 yr old is just shy, barely communicative but no phobias yet. Would she (13 yr old) grow out of it? Probably not without help. Both her father and grandmother are still extremely shy and it has held them back career wise. Her mother died when she was 3 and she has no conscious memory of her but has been told that her mother was shy as well. I think the 17 yr old can do this technique but I doubt the 13 yr old can.
The 13 yr old is almost non-responsive. Her home life seems deprived of much stimulation. She doesn't listen to music--has no boom box or MP3 player. She doesn't have friends over. She doesn't get to go to friends houses to visit or for sleep overs. She does not go to church or have other social outlets with others her age away from school. Daddy and Grandma both work full time and seem to have little time or energy left over for her. Weekends are no better for her. Her social interactions are limited to occasional visits with her cousins. I plan to tak to Grandma about getting her some social interaction. But, there are few outlets in the part of town where she lives other than church youth groups--something they have both avoided due to their shyness. I can work with her but unless she has the opportunity to socialize with kids her own age I'm not sure it will do much good. School started today so she is in anguish. Maybe that will be the motivator for her to want to release this. We'll see. Marc Carlin said:

Hi Melissa,

That could be a great place to start with her. Build up her hope. I like what Kelley and Kevin have pointed out. For the direct suggestion part of the process I like the Heartland ego strengthening approach because it teaches them to focus outside of themselves where all the action is happening. Telling them consciously that others are more focused on the same fears that the client is dealing with is a way of opening the door to acceptance when those type of suggestions are used during trance. I like to see if there is any place in their life where they stop being shy. What are they doing when they are not shy. I'll get a sense of when that is and then while in trance have them find a circumstance where they aren't shy. I'll anchor that state kinesthetically and increase it as much as possible. I'll then direct them to multiple "power" states and stack the anchor. You can then work to collapse the old anchor of shyness, and/or do mental rehearsal with them noticing the very first beginnings of that shy state (going back even before they are consciously aware they are shy) and quickly replace it with the power state. As if the initial shy state is the trigger for the power state. Wash rinse and repeat. If they aren't able to find a state where they have had no shyness then I have them find someone that they feel has the attitude that they wish they had. I then have them put their head on that persons body and experience their experiences and take it from there.
I like using the circle of excellence at the end of the session leading them into the future with the new installation in place.

There is also a technique that I was introduced to at the NGH a few years ago by Melissa Tiers, and since reading about it in Bandler's latest books, I've been using it quite successfully. It's using the motion of the emotion (the spinning) to manipulate the emotion. I set up a kind of polarity exercise with that technique and the emotion, which seems to give the client a mental tool that they can use to change their emotional state on demand. It seems to be working nicely.

Hope that helps and your power (all of it) is back on!

Marc
Melissa J. Roth said:

These are all wonderful suggestions. Unfortunately, I didn't get to try any of them. I had just started the induction for the first of the 3 when a thunderstorm knocked the power out in the entire area, not just the building. It was an impressive storm and everyone in the building moved to the center of the building away from all the plate glass windows. I ended up rescheduling all 3 clients for this coming week so I have some time to mull over what I want to do for each of them. The one that concerns me most is a 50'ish woman whom I believe is totally demoralized by her situation. She does not have hope that she can be any different than she is now and is only coming because her husband insists. She is very willing to participate and will do whatever I tell her. But, she is simply without hope of her own. I ache for her.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on August 12, 2010 at 8:14pm

I saw the 13 y.o. today. She opened up a tiny bit today. Her home life is devoid of socialization other than with her much younger cousins. She does not go to movies or rent DVD's. She does not own a CD, boombox or MP3 player. She only gets out socially with her grandmother and grandma's boyfriend. They take her to book stores and boat shows and places that interest them, not a 13 yr old girl.

I taught her a few tricks to make her more popular at school. I think she will use them even though she feined disinterest. And, I did a swish pattern to change her belief that she inherited her shyness and therefore is destined to live the rest of her life that way. We also talked about how some people try on clothes and she could try on different personalities the same way...practicing until she got all the nuances just right and then moving on to another personality---just the way movie stars do when they are playing a role. That seemed to resonate with her.

Tomorrow I am going to call her grandmother and talk to her about ways to get this girl involved with kids her own age. This girl is smart and by the time she is 16 the braces will have come off, she will have lost her adolesent chub and she is going to be one hot chick. If she is going to withstand the peer pressure, which is intense at her school, she's going to need a strong social network for support. Those don't develop overnight.

Unfortunately, this was my last session with her. I've crossed my fingers that I set the processes in motion correctly and that they will carry her through.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Cheryl Westley on August 12, 2010 at 8:56pm

I hope you get to hear back from her, more than once, as she grows in life!

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on August 13, 2010 at 12:49pm

Thanks for the update, Melissa. Sometimes it's hard to see clients disappear, wondering how much more we could do together. But, it sounds like you got the pendulum swinging in a different direction for this girl, nice job! We never really realize the importance to a child of having an adult genuinely listen and care; add to that the hypnotic tools you gave her and one gets a sense of the value of your time spent together.

:) Kelley

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Don L. Price on August 14, 2010 at 3:45am

Dear Melissa... a story I think you will enjoy

Shyness… what a wonderful and powerful phenomenon; which a person can experience pain or pleasure… success or failure.

One of my corporate clients had a salesperson, that in his evaluation, considered this salesperson to be on the shy side and that it was affecting her sales results. (It didn’t matter that he overlooked the fact she was in the top 10% of his sales team)

He asked that I work with her and I did with her consent… The results she obtained were wonderful… people began to comment on her openness and guileless personality and she was happy with her results.

BUT and that is a BIG But… her seemingly shyness behavior was her greatest asset and power in sales. People loved and adored her and found her to be trusting and a true friend when buying from her. But she had lost something in the process (let’s just call it a softness that her clients liked and unfortunately her sales did not increase).

Back to the Rescue; yes I did work with her again to find a balance in helping her get excellent results in sales… the moral is this; be careful of what and how you create change in your clients.

Don
http://www.donlprice.com

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Cheryl Westley on August 14, 2010 at 6:15am

Very interesting, Don! This dynamic has been on my mind of late (for other reasons), thank you for this fine example.

Don L. Price said:

Dear Melissa... a story I think you will enjoy

Shyness… what a wonderful and powerful phenomenon; which a person can experience pain or pleasure… success or failure.

One of my corporate clients had a salesperson, that in his evaluation, considered this salesperson to be on the shy side and that it was affecting her sales results. (It didn’t matter that he overlooked the fact she was in the top 10% of his sales team)

He asked that I work with her and I did with her consent… The results she obtained were wonderful… people began to comment on her openness and guileless personality and she was happy with her results.

BUT and that is a BIG But… her seemingly shyness behavior was her greatest asset and power in sales. People loved and adored her and found her to be trusting and a true friend when buying from her. But she had lost something in the process (let’s just call it a softness that her clients liked and unfortunately her sales did not increase).

Back to the Rescue; yes I did work with her again to find a balance in helping her get excellent results in sales… the moral is this; be careful of what and how you create change in your clients.

Don
http://www.donlprice.com

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on August 14, 2010 at 7:43am

Don, you are so right. I was conflicted about helping this girl overcome her shyness. I could see that she is going to turn into a beautiful girl in the next couple of years. If she is more gregarious and still devoid of much attention at home that could lead her to seek that attention in other ways, from other people--not all of them with her best interest at heart. So, I was very cautious about the work I did with her. I spent a fair amount of time educating her how to make friends and appear more outgoing while still honoring her integrity about herself. And, I've been trying to get through to her grandmother to coax her to add more stimulation and attention to this girl's life with people her own age. I've done my best and I still feel anxious for this girl. She could blossom into a wonderful young woman IF she got the right help. I guess it is the mother in me that wants to shake her parents and ask them what the hell they are thinking? Her grandmother doesn't find too much positive about her and dad just seems to be absent. I made the comment that she was tall for her age and that she was going to be a tall, beautiful girl. Grandma replied that tall people always want to be short and short people always want to be tall. I sighed and told her a story about my daughter always being the tallest in her class and that now she is 6 feet tall AND LOVES BEING TALL. And, I pointedly turned to the girls and said, "Any you can too." Grandma didn't catch it, thank goodness.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Andrade on August 15, 2010 at 7:08am

Hello Melissa,
I am a big fan of yours.
Keep up your great deeds in helping.

And now for a view point of mine:

If from everything we do is a valid reason whether it be survival or the best solution from the limited or abundant resources we have at the time, the implementation of a behavior utilizes a certain set of skills and talents.

I think O’Hanlon talks about solution oriented therapy.

Help me here if my facts are lacking, but I also think it was Erickson type of therapy that suggests using what the client is bringing in with them, or the using of skill sets that are being used by the problem as part of the solution.

That being said, I have a personal theory about control and manipulation related to sensitivity that can be related to shyness.

For this explanation, I see control, or the manipulation of people as a sense of control, as a line in space. At one end there is "anger" and at the other extreme end there is "sensitivity." At each extreme end is a high level of control through manipulation and towards the center of the line, less control and manipulation utilizing anger or sensitivity.

Sensitivity and anger incorporate certain skill sets, certain talents, and certain learned behaviors. These skills are perfected by many.

Let me ask you a few questions here.

Do you know, or have heard of anyone that you would consider a person who has a temper?
Do you know, or have heard of anyone that you would consider a person who is sensitive? (and shyness can be the vehicle used to use sensitivity as a control agent).

Yes of course this doesn’t or hasn’t made sense to many who haven’t taken it apart and looked at it from the results stand point.

What is being achieved using anger or sensitivity?

I’ll tell you what I see.

And it gets beautiful here with the skills. Have you ever heard someone say, “Oh, don’t mention this or that around so and so, they are very sensitive, or you’ll hurt their feelings, or just be nice to them, (as if you being nice to everyone isn’t important).

Or the opposite, have you ever heard someone say, “Oh, don’t mention this or that around so and so, they’ll get so pissed off, they may even hit you.”

I never thought of it before, but to have a group of people taking it upon themselves to work for you for free and without even asking them to, is a talent. A truly talented control sensitive person has people, even strangers, looking out for them. They can also project in a group situation to sympathetic persons to even defend them even if they are perfect strangers. That is a talent. That is a skill. It is a survival skill that I myself have had to use, a time or too.

You may also notice it anytime you hear this in a group situation: "I'm going to xyz, Anybody with me?"

And the same with extremely angry people, "I'm going to go teach them a lesson, Anybody with me."

My question and my curiosity is about using those skills and talents as part of a solution.

I like what you attempted and may have successfully accomplished with your short time working with your teenage client. I like the way you took, “tall,” and open a door to see it as a good thing. I think this came up because there was an unconscious desire from her or an understanding conflict within her, around being tall and the words her grandmother attempted to suggest to her. Good job. It also says, there is good in everything, we have to find it on our own sometimes. If you fortified that thought, you may have accomplish so much more than I think you think, good job.

I would like to look deeper into those skills and talents being used for control and manipulation, in order to redirect behavior paths.

All I am offering in this post, is a different perspective maybe. Am I full of BS, some might say so, and I’m ok with that. It is just an opinion with intentions of helping.

So what are some of the skills involved?
Knows how to connect with people.
Knows how to affect people.
Achieves goal even if goal is unknown.
Can actually connect and affect a group of people.
Must be able to understand what is needed to make that connection.

What if no one cared about how sensitive or how angry someone got or gets?
But that is not the case, so it is that knowledge about people that is crucial, so must know how to read people.

So how can some of these skills be used for a more positive social behavior?

I think this is where Erickson excelled. I believe he was able to see the skills and talents and use them as part of the solution.

That is a goal of mine.

Eyes wide open, looking and learning,
Steve


Melissa J. Roth said:

Don, you are so right. I was conflicted about helping this girl overcome her shyness. I could see that she is going to turn into a beautiful girl in the next couple of years. If she is more gregarious and still devoid of much attention at home that could lead her to seek that attention in other ways, from other people--not all of them with her best interest at heart. So, I was very cautious about the work I did with her. I spent a fair amount of time educating her how to make friends and appear more outgoing while still honoring her integrity about herself. And, I've been trying to get through to her grandmother to coax her to add more stimulation and attention to this girl's life with people her own age. I've done my best and I still feel anxious for this girl. She could blossom into a wonderful young woman IF she got the right help. I guess it is the mother in me that wants to shake her parents and ask them what the hell they are thinking? Her grandmother doesn't find too much positive about her and dad just seems to be absent. I made the comment that she was tall for her age and that she was going to be a tall, beautiful girl. Grandma replied that tall people always want to be short and short people always want to be tall. I sighed and told her a story about my daughter always being the tallest in her class and that now she is 6 feet tall AND LOVES BEING TALL. And, I pointedly turned to the girls and said, "Any you can too." Grandma didn't catch it, thank goodness.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Marc Carlin on August 16, 2010 at 3:26am

Nice. I like the way you worked on her belief that she could modify and change her personality to suit her needs. This is a huge stumbling block for many of us mortal creatures. We think beliefs, attitudes, and personalities are set in stone. Once we realize they are tools that we can use to make life serve us better, we create the possibility of generative change.

Melissa J. Roth said:

I saw the 13 y.o. today. She opened up a tiny bit today. Her home life is devoid of socialization other than with her much younger cousins. She does not go to movies or rent DVD's. She does not own a CD, boombox or MP3 player. She only gets out socially with her grandmother and grandma's boyfriend. They take her to book stores and boat shows and places that interest them, not a 13 yr old girl.

I taught her a few tricks to make her more popular at school. I think she will use them even though she feined disinterest. And, I did a swish pattern to change her belief that she inherited her shyness and therefore is destined to live the rest of her life that way. We also talked about how some people try on clothes and she could try on different personalities the same way...practicing until she got all the nuances just right and then moving on to another personality---just the way movie stars do when they are playing a role. That seemed to resonate with her.

Tomorrow I am going to call her grandmother and talk to her about ways to get this girl involved with kids her own age. This girl is smart and by the time she is 16 the braces will have come off, she will have lost her adolesent chub and she is going to be one hot chick. If she is going to withstand the peer pressure, which is intense at her school, she's going to need a strong social network for support. Those don't develop overnight.

Unfortunately, this was my last session with her. I've crossed my fingers that I set the processes in motion correctly and that they will carry her through.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Marc Carlin on August 16, 2010 at 3:41am

I would not approach this problem in this way. I think what's important to remember is that someone thought that the strategies put into place by this young girl were not working for her. And what was in order was giving her the key to the door of choice. By showing her that she can decide to try on different outfits see what works and what doesn't work, she now has the choice to build a life that suits her.

She has certainly gotten real good at being shy probably because she didn't know any other way. It's now up to her to experiment with different presentations of herself. I didn't get that her shyness was removed, I think she now can use shyness very effectively when she wants and other options were added to her bag of tricks.


Steve Andrade said:

Hello Melissa,
I am a big fan of yours.
Keep up your great deeds in helping.

And now for a view point of mine:

If from everything we do is a valid reason whether it be survival or the best solution from the limited or abundant resources we have at the time, the implementation of a behavior utilizes a certain set of skills and talents.

I think O’Hanlon talks about solution oriented therapy.

Help me here if my facts are lacking, but I also think it was Erickson type of therapy that suggests using what the client is bringing in with them, or the using of skill sets that are being used by the problem as part of the solution.

That being said, I have a personal theory about control and manipulation related to sensitivity that can be related to shyness.

For this explanation, I see control, or the manipulation of people as a sense of control, as a line in space. At one end there is "anger" and at the other extreme end there is "sensitivity." At each extreme end is a high level of control through manipulation and towards the center of the line, less control and manipulation utilizing anger or sensitivity.

Sensitivity and anger incorporate certain skill sets, certain talents, and certain learned behaviors. These skills are perfected by many.

Let me ask you a few questions here.

Do you know, or have heard of anyone that you would consider a person who has a temper?
Do you know, or have heard of anyone that you would consider a person who is sensitive? (and shyness can be the vehicle used to use sensitivity as a control agent).

Yes of course this doesn’t or hasn’t made sense to many who haven’t taken it apart and looked at it from the results stand point.

What is being achieved using anger or sensitivity?

I’ll tell you what I see.

And it gets beautiful here with the skills. Have you ever heard someone say, “Oh, don’t mention this or that around so and so, they are very sensitive, or you’ll hurt their feelings, or just be nice to them, (as if you being nice to everyone isn’t important).

Or the opposite, have you ever heard someone say, “Oh, don’t mention this or that around so and so, they’ll get so pissed off, they may even hit you.”

I never thought of it before, but to have a group of people taking it upon themselves to work for you for free and without even asking them to, is a talent. A truly talented control sensitive person has people, even strangers, looking out for them. They can also project in a group situation to sympathetic persons to even defend them even if they are perfect strangers. That is a talent. That is a skill. It is a survival skill that I myself have had to use, a time or too.

You may also notice it anytime you hear this in a group situation: "I'm going to xyz, Anybody with me?"

And the same with extremely angry people, "I'm going to go teach them a lesson, Anybody with me."

My question and my curiosity is about using those skills and talents as part of a solution.

I like what you attempted and may have successfully accomplished with your short time working with your teenage client. I like the way you took, “tall,” and open a door to see it as a good thing. I think this came up because there was an unconscious desire from her or an understanding conflict within her, around being tall and the words her grandmother attempted to suggest to her. Good job. It also says, there is good in everything, we have to find it on our own sometimes. If you fortified that thought, you may have accomplish so much more than I think you think, good job.

I would like to look deeper into those skills and talents being used for control and manipulation, in order to redirect behavior paths.

All I am offering in this post, is a different perspective maybe. Am I full of BS, some might say so, and I’m ok with that. It is just an opinion with intentions of helping.

So what are some of the skills involved?
Knows how to connect with people.
Knows how to affect people.
Achieves goal even if goal is unknown.
Can actually connect and affect a group of people.
Must be able to understand what is needed to make that connection.

What if no one cared about how sensitive or how angry someone got or gets?
But that is not the case, so it is that knowledge about people that is crucial, so must know how to read people.

So how can some of these skills be used for a more positive social behavior?

I think this is where Erickson excelled. I believe he was able to see the skills and talents and use them as part of the solution.

That is a goal of mine.

Eyes wide open, looking and learning,
Steve


Melissa J. Roth said:

Don, you are so right. I was conflicted about helping this girl overcome her shyness. I could see that she is going to turn into a beautiful girl in the next couple of years. If she is more gregarious and still devoid of much attention at home that could lead her to seek that attention in other ways, from other people--not all of them with her best interest at heart. So, I was very cautious about the work I did with her. I spent a fair amount of time educating her how to make friends and appear more outgoing while still honoring her integrity about herself. And, I've been trying to get through to her grandmother to coax her to add more stimulation and attention to this girl's life with people her own age. I've done my best and I still feel anxious for this girl. She could blossom into a wonderful young woman IF she got the right help. I guess it is the mother in me that wants to shake her parents and ask them what the hell they are thinking? Her grandmother doesn't find too much positive about her and dad just seems to be absent. I made the comment that she was tall for her age and that she was going to be a tall, beautiful girl. Grandma replied that tall people always want to be short and short people always want to be tall. I sighed and told her a story about my daughter always being the tallest in her class and that now she is 6 feet tall AND LOVES BEING TALL. And, I pointedly turned to the girls and said, "Any you can too." Grandma didn't catch it, thank goodness.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Andrade on August 16, 2010 at 4:42am

Hi Mark,
I like how and what you see, and do agree with you.
I also like the trying on of different personalities like the trying on clothes thing, that was excellent, as was the switch pattern to disconnect a limiting and a destructive belief about being born with shyness.
I also agree that the shyness was not taken away, as it is a belief that we can’t take anything away, but the offering of a better solution that works better is something the mind can utilize instead.

I do wonder about one part of what you said.
The part where you say, “She now has the choice,” or in other words, it’s now up to her.

I find that is much easier said than it is in reality. Although we see it as an option, this was not something she thought she had prior, the “choice”……I do hope it does take hold. And it possibly can at the unconscious level with the clothes analogy.

I wonder if in retrospect if that option of choice could have been suggested by linking it to what she already does, like maybe asking if she is shy around everyone all the time and if she says no, then pointing out that she does exercise choice and is good at it.

And yes, she has options now, that is key.

Just thinking out loud.

Steve


Marc Carlin said:

I would not approach this problem in this way. I think what's important to remember is that someone thought that the strategies put into place by this young girl were not working for her. And what was in order was giving her the key to the door of choice. By showing her that she can decide to try on different outfits see what works and what doesn't work, she now has the choice to build a life that suits her.

She has certainly gotten real good at being shy probably because she didn't know any other way. It's now up to her to experiment with different presentations of herself. I didn't get that her shyness was removed, I think she now can use shyness very effectively when she wants and other options were added to her bag of tricks.


Steve Andrade said:

Hello Melissa,
I am a big fan of yours.
Keep up your great deeds in helping.

And now for a view point of mine:

If from everything we do is a valid reason whether it be survival or the best solution from the limited or abundant resources we have at the time, the implementation of a behavior utilizes a certain set of skills and talents.

I think O’Hanlon talks about solution oriented therapy.

Help me here if my facts are lacking, but I also think it was Erickson type of therapy that suggests using what the client is bringing in with them, or the using of skill sets that are being used by the problem as part of the solution.

That being said, I have a personal theory about control and manipulation related to sensitivity that can be related to shyness.

For this explanation, I see control, or the manipulation of people as a sense of control, as a line in space. At one end there is "anger" and at the other extreme end there is "sensitivity." At each extreme end is a high level of control through manipulation and towards the center of the line, less control and manipulation utilizing anger or sensitivity.

Sensitivity and anger incorporate certain skill sets, certain talents, and certain learned behaviors. These skills are perfected by many.

Let me ask you a few questions here.

Do you know, or have heard of anyone that you would consider a person who has a temper?
Do you know, or have heard of anyone that you would consider a person who is sensitive? (and shyness can be the vehicle used to use sensitivity as a control agent).

Yes of course this doesn’t or hasn’t made sense to many who haven’t taken it apart and looked at it from the results stand point.

What is being achieved using anger or sensitivity?

I’ll tell you what I see.

And it gets beautiful here with the skills. Have you ever heard someone say, “Oh, don’t mention this or that around so and so, they are very sensitive, or you’ll hurt their feelings, or just be nice to them, (as if you being nice to everyone isn’t important).

Or the opposite, have you ever heard someone say, “Oh, don’t mention this or that around so and so, they’ll get so pissed off, they may even hit you.”

I never thought of it before, but to have a group of people taking it upon themselves to work for you for free and without even asking them to, is a talent. A truly talented control sensitive person has people, even strangers, looking out for them. They can also project in a group situation to sympathetic persons to even defend them even if they are perfect strangers. That is a talent. That is a skill. It is a survival skill that I myself have had to use, a time or too.

You may also notice it anytime you hear this in a group situation: "I'm going to xyz, Anybody with me?"

And the same with extremely angry people, "I'm going to go teach them a lesson, Anybody with me."

My question and my curiosity is about using those skills and talents as part of a solution.

I like what you attempted and may have successfully accomplished with your short time working with your teenage client. I like the way you took, “tall,” and open a door to see it as a good thing. I think this came up because there was an unconscious desire from her or an understanding conflict within her, around being tall and the words her grandmother attempted to suggest to her. Good job. It also says, there is good in everything, we have to find it on our own sometimes. If you fortified that thought, you may have accomplish so much more than I think you think, good job.

I would like to look deeper into those skills and talents being used for control and manipulation, in order to redirect behavior paths.

All I am offering in this post, is a different perspective maybe. Am I full of BS, some might say so, and I’m ok with that. It is just an opinion with intentions of helping.

So what are some of the skills involved?
Knows how to connect with people.
Knows how to affect people.
Achieves goal even if goal is unknown.
Can actually connect and affect a group of people.
Must be able to understand what is needed to make that connection.

What if no one cared about how sensitive or how angry someone got or gets?
But that is not the case, so it is that knowledge about people that is crucial, so must know how to read people.

So how can some of these skills be used for a more positive social behavior?

I think this is where Erickson excelled. I believe he was able to see the skills and talents and use them as part of the solution.

That is a goal of mine.

Eyes wide open, looking and learning,
Steve


Melissa J. Roth said:

Don, you are so right. I was conflicted about helping this girl overcome her shyness. I could see that she is going to turn into a beautiful girl in the next couple of years. If she is more gregarious and still devoid of much attention at home that could lead her to seek that attention in other ways, from other people--not all of them with her best interest at heart. So, I was very cautious about the work I did with her. I spent a fair amount of time educating her how to make friends and appear more outgoing while still honoring her integrity about herself. And, I've been trying to get through to her grandmother to coax her to add more stimulation and attention to this girl's life with people her own age. I've done my best and I still feel anxious for this girl. She could blossom into a wonderful young woman IF she got the right help. I guess it is the mother in me that wants to shake her parents and ask them what the hell they are thinking? Her grandmother doesn't find too much positive about her and dad just seems to be absent. I made the comment that she was tall for her age and that she was going to be a tall, beautiful girl. Grandma replied that tall people always want to be short and short people always want to be tall. I sighed and told her a story about my daughter always being the tallest in her class and that now she is 6 feet tall AND LOVES BEING TALL. And, I pointedly turned to the girls and said, "Any you can too." Grandma didn't catch it, thank goodness.

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