fingers vs. voice

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Permalink Reply by David Mason on January 19, 2010 at 3:37pm

You are identifying only overt metaphors but life is pervaded with other kinds of metaphor:

Dead metaphor:
I was taken aback. This refers to the dangerous situation where the wind veers round and presses the sails against the masts of a sailing ship. They were not designed to take force from the bow direction and this causes the crew to run around in panic, hence the expression. A hundred years ago this was a live metaphor and would have been understood by most people.

Lost metaphor:
the word 'comprehend' is today used to mean 'understand' but is is actually a metaphor. The word originally meant 'to enclose or surround' eg the atmosphere comprehends the earth, or in Genesis 'and the darkness comprehended it not'. The fact that it is a metaphor is now lost. Almost all words are in reality lost metaphors.

Embodied metaphor:
‘The stock market went up”. How is it that more equals up? This is because we embody metaphors in our own bodies. An infant plays with blocks and piles them on top. The child learns that more = higher, and eventually this is applied metaphorically to other ‘more’ things.

Invisible metaphor:
It is almost impossible to construct a sentence without using metaphor. That sentence implies that sentences are ‘things’ we ‘make’ like building a wall. ‘Like building a wall’ is itself a metaphor – it is actually a simile but linguists group all these related parts of speech like synecdoche and metonymy as metaphors. And there is another metaphor – to group. And there is another metaphor – speech has parts. Like a mind has parts?

The standard book on this stuff is

Lakoff, G. & Johnson, M. (2003) Metaphors we live by. University of Chicago Press. ISBN 0-226-46801-1.

another good book about metaphor in therapy is

Lawley, James and Penny Tompkins. 2000. Metaphors in mind: transformation through symbolic modelling. London: The Developing Company Press. ISBN 0-95387-510-5.

and the ultimate explanation of the power of metaphor is

Grove, D. & Panzer, B. (1991). Resolving traumatic memories: metaphors and symbols in psychotherapy. New York: Irvington.


Dave Mason
www.hypknowsis.com

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Permalink Reply by Pattie Freeman CH.t, MST on January 23, 2010 at 1:27am

I ask for both and usually the fingers work sometimes they surprise me and I actually hear the answers needed.

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on January 23, 2010 at 2:40am

There is an ideo motor response most hypnotherapists get all the time and miss. You don't need to set it up and in western and most other societies it is ingrained from infancy.

It's called a head nod.

But if you prefer to use words the subconscious is quite capable of speaking. It does every time you get emotive, just think of the times in a row or embarrassment or lust, you talk just like a bright 9 year old!

The funny thing is that there is absolutely no research at all into the effectiveness or not of ideomotor responses and experimentation will show you that it is no more effective than asking for confirmation some other way.

Personally I just say, "And let me know when that happens."

I usually get a nod - 90% of the time, and sometimes they say yes. Never, not once in thousands of times, have I ever seen anyone lift a finger in response without being told to.

I personally question it's validity.

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Permalink Reply by Walt Potter on January 23, 2010 at 8:25am

Ian,

Will cognitive linguistics help one understand the process of hpnosis? If so, do you have a good suggestion for reading.
I've looked at transformational grammar but the world seems to have moved on.

Walt


Ian Jay said:

The thing to remember is that the mind is a metaphor ...

Stephen Pinker in 'How the mind works' coined the phrase 'Metaphorical Mind'. And he wrote, '"The human mind, we see, is not equipped with an evolutionarily frivolous faculty for doing Western science, mathematics, chess, or other diversions." He refers to the evolving mind attempting to understand the physical world by using metaphors to explain abstract ideas. Today we call this 'Cognitive Linguistics'. And within Cognitive Linguistics it may be reasonable to refer to the mind as a metaphor, but in general terms it is not what Pinker implied. And I suggest unhelpful for explaining mind in the context of hypnosis. "Subconscious" and 'conscious' are helpful metaphors.

A common explanation of a metaphor:

I went to the shop.
The light went from red to amber.
The first 'went' shows physical movement, the second is a metaphor.

Of course, all this is open to dispute. For without disputation, how do we move forward?

" ................and either method does not eliminate lying" or genuine misunderstanding - I agree 100%

Ian

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Permalink Reply by Walt Potter on January 23, 2010 at 8:52am

Ian,

Will cognitive linguistics help one understand the process of hypnosis? If so, do you have a good suggestion for reading.
I've looked at transformational grammar but the world seems to have moved on.

Walt


Ian Jay said:

The thing to remember is that the mind is a metaphor ...

Stephen Pinker in 'How the mind works' coined the phrase 'Metaphorical Mind'. And he wrote, '"The human mind, we see, is not equipped with an evolutionarily frivolous faculty for doing Western science, mathematics, chess, or other diversions." He refers to the evolving mind attempting to understand the physical world by using metaphors to explain abstract ideas. Today we call this 'Cognitive Linguistics'. And within Cognitive Linguistics it may be reasonable to refer to the mind as a metaphor, but in general terms it is not what Pinker implied. And I suggest unhelpful for explaining mind in the context of hypnosis. "Subconscious" and 'conscious' are helpful metaphors.

A common explanation of a metaphor:

I went to the shop.
The light went from red to amber.
The first 'went' shows physical movement, the second is a metaphor.

Of course, all this is open to dispute. For without disputation, how do we move forward?

" ................and either method does not eliminate lying" or genuine misunderstanding - I agree 100%

Ian

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Permalink Reply by Linda Roan on January 23, 2010 at 9:17am

Hi Fable:

Under what circumstances would you use hypno pictography and automatic writing? I have done it infrequently as art therapy or mandala work, usually after hypnosis but only in workshops.

Linda

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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Westley on January 23, 2010 at 9:43am

Having not read this thread all the way through yet (gotta go somewhere --) I just want to say; how would it be if during the pre-talk, the client was asked: "Which do you feel would take less effort for you... while you are very relaxed.... to speak a word? Or to lift a finger?"

If it were me, I would elect to raise a finger.

As an experiment, I wonder what the percentile would be for answers to both questions.....

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on January 23, 2010 at 1:39pm

Linda Roan said:

Hi Fable:
Under what circumstances would you use hypno pictography and automatic writing? I have done it infrequently as art therapy or mandala work, usually after hypnosis but only in workshops.
Linda

Hi Linda,

I will answer briefly, as it is a bit of the original topic,
I will go into more detail in the upcoming Hypno Summit.

These techniques can be used in many different ways within therapy,
for instance to help explore and resolve the unconscious elements
that might be playing a part in the clients presenting problems.

A client may get spontaneous insight and resolution,
just by watching what the hand draws.
more often this is just a useful step in the right direction,
and more hypno analytic techniques are required to draw out the significance,
and lead to a succesful therapeutic outcome

However resolution of the issue can (and does sometimes) take place through the drawing/writing alone,
without any conscious insight as to what the drawing/writing might mean as far as the clients problem is concerned.

Hope that's enough for you to get the picture.

Love and hugs,

Fable

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on January 23, 2010 at 7:13pm

There is a line that most Stage Hypnotists know well .... "Nod Your head if you Understand" ... It's very useful because it is easy to do, allows the subject to self affirm and it is a highly visible response that doesn't effect trance quality at all. Granted that in Perfrmance Hypnosis the subject is more active than they would be in clinical situations, the head nod is a great way to affirm a Yes answer,

Hugh Cole



Jonathan Chase said:

There is an ideo motor response most hypnotherapists get all the time and miss. You don't need to set it up and in western and most other societies it is ingrained from infancy.

It's called a head nod.

But if you prefer to use words the subconscious is quite capable of speaking. It does every time you get emotive, just think of the times in a row or embarrassment or lust, you talk just like a bright 9 year old!

The funny thing is that there is absolutely no research at all into the effectiveness or not of ideomotor responses and experimentation will show you that it is no more effective than asking for confirmation some other way.

Personally I just say, "And let me know when that happens."

I usually get a nod - 90% of the time, and sometimes they say yes. Never, not once in thousands of times, have I ever seen anyone lift a finger in response without being told to.

I personally question it's validity.

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on January 24, 2010 at 10:18am

Atually Huge when not on stage, remarkably I do hypnotism in other places, I useually just say do you understand, or "when that happens just let me know." People nod all the time it is just an ideo motor responce. There is NO proof whatever that a setup finger lift is any more accurate.

If you were really going for that then what about telling them to open their eyes and that when the subconscious was in agreement the pupils of eye would enlarge. Now that would be way more ideo motor would it not?

And yes you are right that people in a somnambulist state are both more active and more voluble on stage. Erickson has rather a good video of him hypnotising a young lady who is looking at, talking to and patting a non existent dog, just like a stage hypnotist. Isn't that interesting?

Hugh Cole said:

There is a line that most Stage Hypnotists know well .... "Nod Your head if you Understand" ... It's very useful because it is easy to do, allows the subject to self affirm and it is a highly visible response that doesn't effect trance quality at all. Granted that in Perfrmance Hypnosis the subject is more active than they would be in clinical situations, the head nod is a great way to affirm a Yes answer,

Hugh Cole



Jonathan Chase said:

There is an ideo motor response most hypnotherapists get all the time and miss. You don't need to set it up and in western and most other societies it is ingrained from infancy.

It's called a head nod.

But if you prefer to use words the subconscious is quite capable of speaking. It does every time you get emotive, just think of the times in a row or embarrassment or lust, you talk just like a bright 9 year old!

The funny thing is that there is absolutely no research at all into the effectiveness or not of ideomotor responses and experimentation will show you that it is no more effective than asking for confirmation some other way.

Personally I just say, "And let me know when that happens."

I usually get a nod - 90% of the time, and sometimes they say yes. Never, not once in thousands of times, have I ever seen anyone lift a finger in response without being told to.

I personally question it's validity.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on January 24, 2010 at 8:53pm

Actually Jonathan, you and I have a great deal more in common than one might think. The head nod works perfectly well for me and i am not disagreeing with you on that. It is a great response and can be used in both stage and clinical work. There are times in my clinical work when I may actually set up a finger lift for a specific purpose, but you are right, a head nod would work just as well. Complex objectives within a clinical session would go a long way toward explaining minor personal preferances, but ideo motor responses are a hypnotist's bread and butter (or tea and crumpet if you prefer)

Hugh Cole
The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet

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Permalink Reply by David Mason on January 24, 2010 at 10:05pm

The use of ideomotor signals I think is more an article of faith than a proven means of communicating from trance. Someone earlier said that this had not been researched and that is probably true. I have done my own tests on the effectiveness of finger lifts and I find that it is unreliable as a means of communication, but very effective as a convincer to the client.
When you can get the client to let a finger lift happen it usually impresses them immensely. I use some form of ideomotor response at the end of most sessions as a way of demonstrating to the client that they actually are in touch with their own unconscious mind.
My problem with ideomotor finger responses is that when the client is properly in trance, their voluntary muscles are so relaxed that they frequently either lose control of them altogether and cannot move the finger at all, or they think they had moved one when in fact they only made the tiniest, virtually imperceptible, tremor and the observer sees nothing. I have talked to clients at length about this and it seems to be a common experience.

I find it much better to get the client to talk to me. All clients seem to be able to do this, even when the rest of their body is virtually paralysed. I have to agree with the earlier poster who observed that he had never seen a client respond by spontaneously lifting a finger or a hand: I have never seen that either. I think finger movements are neither natural nor easy to do from the depths of trance, whereas talking is simply using an automatic ability to verbalise mental imagery while forgetting you even have a body.

Someone asked if there would ever be a psychology of words to control hypnosis. I think there is and I think that the explanation is in a recent book.

The book is Dreaming Realities by Joe Griffin and Ivan Tyrrell HG Publishing 2006 ISBN 1 899398 91 0.

Griffen and Tyrell are better known for their theories on depression and anxieties, but it think it is fair to say that these are not accepted in the mainstream and at best, are not proven. But Dreaming Realities is a little gem. It came out of Griffen's PhD dissertation based on his twelve years of dream investigation.

In Dreaming Realities, Griffen lays out evidence about dreaming that leads to a compelling theory that hypnosis is actually the artificial invoking of the REM state. In the REM state the body is paralysed, the mind is freed from its logical cage and the mind works on its issues in images. The theory neatly explains the reason why metaphor therapy works, why NLP works, what hypnotic regression is all about, and all the physical symptoms of hypnosis. The book is largely about the physiological basis of dreaming, and the purpose of dreaming from an evolutionary point of view (I found it amazing that most mammals, and even birds dream). But I was struck by the irresistible parallels between dreaming and trance. The theory that arises out of this work is that hypnotic induction works by encouraging the mind to prepare for sleep, and therefore to enter a hypnogogic state. The state is created by suggesting relaxation, calm, darkness, tired muscles, sleepy eyes.... etc. Hypnotherapy is about utilising the mind's natural ability to use dream imagery to heal itself.

So yes, there is a form of words that can reliably create and explain hypnosis.

I highly recommend the book. I think is an overlooked modern classic.


Dave Mason PhD
www.hypknowsis.com

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