finicky eaters due to childhood abuse ...your ideas please

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on September 23, 2009 at 4:21pm

Sorry, Dennis. I don't agree. I think you #1 should inform grandma that lots of children at his age are finicky eaters. Most outgrow it. #2 of the dozens I have seen I can vouch that most of them were not abused as children. In truth, many of them were using it to control their families. When the families ignored it--didn't fix special meals for the one child, acted as if it was ok and didn't make a fuss--then the child outgrew it more rapidly.

The way grandma could handle it is to ask child to imagine what his favorite TV character would do to overcome the problem if that character had the same problem. That's basically what I do when I see children with this condition. Ask them to close their eyes and imagine a magic TV in front of them. See their favorite TV program on the screen. Step into the TV with their favorite characters. The TV characters once had the same problem but now have overcome it and are much happier that they have more freedom with food. Ask the character what they did/what advice they have for the child. Do it with more than one character so the child gets multiple ways to try to handle the problem. Have the characters tell the child that not everything they did worked right off the bat but that they kept trying new foods until they found a wider variety that they could eat. This empowers the child. And, nothing breeds success like success.

I recently had one of the children I used this technique with when he was 6 return to my practice as a 17 yr old. He's been doing very well, eats and enjoys most foods now. Came back to enhance memory retention/recall to take SAT. When he was 6 he only ate 3 foods.

I have seen more boys for this condition than girls. I got the technique from Ted Benton. Ted is the resident hypnotherapist for Winchester Hospital in Winchester, Mass. (surburb of Boston). Ted specializes in children and sees this problem routinely. The good news is that, with or without hypnosis, the boy will probably outgrow it. But, he will have a lot more pleasant and healthy existance if he gets help now.

Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on September 23, 2009 at 4:45pm

Hi Dennis, I think you might have misunderstood. I don't intend to do hypnosis at all. I only wanted to provide grandma with a story or some play-type activity that would help her help him to relax into eating more foods, etc.

I believe the children were with a psychiatrist when they were with the parents and being abused and when they started acting out from the abuse they were put on Ritalin to keep them quiet. When grandma got them she weened them off the Ritalin and a few other drugs and now they are starting to thrive. She will not take them back to a psychiatrist. She did not seek hypnotherapy for them either because she knows that even if we could help with hypnotherapy, the child is not nearly ready to interact with other adults in any meaningful way. Certainly I think however we can come up with some bed-time stories that will help in the long run, if not the short run...and that's I was intending to do.

I appreciate your cautioning me however and you are right one must be very careful and I would never get myself into that sort of situation...but at the level that I am trying to provide support, I feel very safe as does the grandma.

warmest regards,
Grace :)

Dennis Atkinson said:

Question one would be are you a child psychologist?

If not a psychologist, my advice ... you should not attempt anything, and if you do, then everything should be at the direction of the psychologist who is counselling the children. In hypnosis, you are going to open a huge pandoras box of abuse and neglect, and psychologists who deal with young children with this kind of abuse history, should have had specialized training that we just do not possess.

You are opening yourself to litigation if you use hypnosis and stir things up, and grandma decides you caused additional trauma because you were not skilled in psychology. Don't forget, the children's parents did these things to their own children - and those parents are related to grandma. Those parents were most likely abused as children as well, and their is a link to grandma - as sweet as she may seem.

This is not to say you would not be beneficial, or that you are not qualified, just that the potential risk is to great. You also run the risk of grandma reporting you to the State, and the District Attorney's Office acting on a complaint from the Medical Board. Too many "what ifs" for me.

Just food for thought.

Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on September 23, 2009 at 4:50pm

OOOPS .... I thought you were going to have sessions with this child. I stand corrected.



Grace Joubarne said:

Hi Dennis, I think you might have misunderstood. I don't intend to do hypnosis at all. I wanted to provide grandma with a story or some play-type activity that would help her help him to relax into eating more foods, etc.

I believe the children were with a psychiatrist when they were with the parents and being abused and when they started acting out from the abuse they were put on Ritalin to keep them quiet. When grandma got them she weened them off the Ritalin and a few other drugs and now they are starting to thrive. She will not take them back to a psychiatrist. She did not seek hypnotherapy for them either because she knows that even if we could help with hypnotherapy, the child is not nearly ready to interact with other adults in any meaningful way. Certainly I think however we can come up with some bed-time stories that will help in the long run, if not the short run...and that's I was intending to do.

I appreciate your cautioning me however and you are right one must be very careful and I would never get myself into that sort of situation...but at the level that I am trying to provide support, I feel very safe as does the grandma.

warmest regards,
Grace :)

Dennis Atkinson said:

Question one would be are you a child psychologist?

If not a psychologist, my advice ... you should not attempt anything, and if you do, then everything should be at the direction of the psychologist who is counselling the children. In hypnosis, you are going to open a huge pandoras box of abuse and neglect, and psychologists who deal with young children with this kind of abuse history, should have had specialized training that we just do not possess.

You are opening yourself to litigation if you use hypnosis and stir things up, and grandma decides you caused additional trauma because you were not skilled in psychology. Don't forget, the children's parents did these things to their own children - and those parents are related to grandma. Those parents were most likely abused as children as well, and their is a link to grandma - as sweet as she may seem.

This is not to say you would not be beneficial, or that you are not qualified, just that the potential risk is to great. You also run the risk of grandma reporting you to the State, and the District Attorney's Office acting on a complaint from the Medical Board. Too many "what ifs" for me.

Just food for thought.

Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on September 23, 2009 at 4:52pm

And I will answer for you in advance, Melissa ... I stand corrected by you too :)

This is what happens when I read without wearing my reading glasses.

Dennis Atkinson said:

I would agree I do not possess a work history of being a registered nurse or medical hypnotherapist, so I do not intend to disrespect you in any way, Melissa, as you certainly are much more qualified than I when it comes to the issue of hypnotherapy and medical issues; however, having said all that, in my twenty five years of being a police officer and investigator, my first red flag is that the children are with the grandmother, and not with the parents. Add in the history of abuse, and the red flag gets bigger.

Possibly I am reading more into her story than is there, but a child who has been abused to the point he or she will not interact with adults, and even with children his own age, and was abused and fed feces by a parent ... sounds more than just a picky eater.

I never once in all my years encountered a parent who fed their child feces where there was not a history of abuse and neglect. I can only make assumptions based on the limited facts presented, but I would assume their is a history of mental illness, drug / alcohol abuse somewhere lerking its ugly head.

Let's just say this is not a case I would be comfortable taking on.



Melissa J. Roth said:

Sorry, Dennis. I don't agree. I think you #1 should inform grandma that lots of children at his age are finicky eaters. Most outgrow it. #2 of the dozens I have seen I can vouch that most of them were not abused as children. In truth, many of them were using it to control their families. When the families ignored it--didn't fix special meals for the one child, acted as if it was ok and didn't make a fuss--then the child outgrew it more rapidly.

The way grandma could handle it is to ask child to imagine what his favorite TV character would do to overcome the problem if that character had the same problem. That's basically what I do when I see children with this condition. Ask them to close their eyes and imagine a magic TV in front of them. See their favorite TV program on the screen. Step into the TV with their favorite characters. The TV characters once had the same problem but now have overcome it and are much happier that they have more freedom with food. Ask the character what they did/what advice they have for the child. Do it with more than one character so the child gets multiple ways to try to handle the problem. Have the characters tell the child that not everything they did worked right off the bat but that they kept trying new foods until they found a wider variety that they could eat. This empowers the child. And, nothing breeds success like success.

I recently had one of the children I used this technique with when he was 6 return to my practice as a 17 yr old. He's been doing very well, eats and enjoys most foods now. Came back to enhance memory retention/recall to take SAT. When he was 6 he only ate 3 foods.

I have seen more boys for this condition than girls. I got the technique from Ted Benton. Ted is the resident hypnotherapist for Winchester Hospital in Winchester, Mass. (surburb of Boston). Ted specializes in children and sees this problem routinely. The good news is that, with or without hypnosis, the boy will probably outgrow it. But, he will have a lot more pleasant and healthy existance if he gets help now.

Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on September 23, 2009 at 4:53pm

Thanks a bunch Melissa,
They know that his dislike of certain textures, etc. is a direct result of having been forced to eat feces, etc and he recalls this. Any direct discussion of those 'eating' traumas sends him into the corner with fear. The authorities found the kids in that state and thus she has permanent custody. I like your story-line and I think grandma can safely tell this story. Del Hunter Morril also provided me with an awesome story from her Great Escapes book and I will put them together into one story, or maybe into a couple she can use over several days. I'll wait a few days to see if anyone else has worked directly with children who had been forced to eat feces, etc. to see what other advice may come in.

But another huge thank you for your comments and advice...gratefully accepted.
Grace :)

Melissa J. Roth said:

Sorry, Dennis. I don't agree. I think you #1 should inform grandma that lots of children at his age are finicky eaters. Most outgrow it. #2 of the dozens I have seen I can vouch that most of them were not abused as children. In truth, many of them were using it to control their families. When the families ignored it--didn't fix special meals for the one child, acted as if it was ok and didn't make a fuss--then the child outgrew it more rapidly.

The way grandma could handle it is to ask child to imagine what his favorite TV character would do to overcome the problem if that character had the same problem. That's basically what I do when I see children with this condition. Ask them to close their eyes and imagine a magic TV in front of them. See their favorite TV program on the screen. Step into the TV with their favorite characters. The TV characters once had the same problem but now have overcome it and are much happier that they have more freedom with food. Ask the character what they did/what advice they have for the child. Do it with more than one character so the child gets multiple ways to try to handle the problem. Have the characters tell the child that not everything they did worked right off the bat but that they kept trying new foods until they found a wider variety that they could eat. This empowers the child. And, nothing breeds success like success.

I recently had one of the children I used this technique with when he was 6 return to my practice as a 17 yr old. He's been doing very well, eats and enjoys most foods now. Came back to enhance memory retention/recall to take SAT. When he was 6 he only ate 3 foods.

I have seen more boys for this condition than girls. I got the technique from Ted Benton. Ted is the resident hypnotherapist for Winchester Hospital in Winchester, Mass. (surburb of Boston). Ted specializes in children and sees this problem routinely. The good news is that, with or without hypnosis, the boy will probably outgrow it. But, he will have a lot more pleasant and healthy existance if he gets help now.

Permalink Reply by Michael White on September 24, 2009 at 7:19am

Is there a "feeding zoo" close to where he lives? Is there a way for him to interact where he feeds an animal? Horses or goats? Feeding others is a loving act. Feeding himself is a loving act. Perhaps the unconscious will make the connection as he is hand feeding an animal. Perhaps give him some responsibility where he is caring for wounded animals. Feeding and tending to them. This isn't about what happened but who he can become as a human being. Perhaps he will feed himself understanding that he is responsible for others?

If nothing else, it'll get grandma out of the house.

Stay well,

Michael White

Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on September 24, 2009 at 7:44am

There is a great book of therapeutic metaphors for children. They were written by a child psychologist. Can't remember the author's name. The book is called Annie Stories. When I met the author I think I remember she was writing another book so there may be multiple volumes out. I liked the format of her book because it was bedtime stories for parents to read to children. Both parties healed during the reading of her stories. It tells you what the metaphor says at the unconscious level and what it should be used for. My copy is falling apart. I have found them useful for adults as well as children.

Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on September 24, 2009 at 7:58am

I love this suggestion. Even better would be to get him a pet, especially one that has been wounded, abused or is handicapped in some way and he should be the caretaker. You have to watch him however because children who have been abused will often act out aggression toward animals or younger siblings. But, it's a great way to end the cycle of abuse by educating him that no matter how frustrated or angry, etc that you do not take it out on a living thing. Then help him find ways to express his emotions in healthy ways.

When my sister was director of the humane society we used to take the abandoned/abused/neglected ponies (I live on a small farm). We would rehab the ponies by letting children interact with them. You could always tell the children who were in the most need emotinally. The other kids would pet the ponies for awhile and then wander off to more interesting things. Invariably, there would be 1 or 2 kids who just couldn't pull themselves away all day long. They were stuck like glue to those animals. They fed them. They watered them. They groomed them. Even at meal time, they just didn't leave. We finally caught on and started taking the ponies to the daycare for homeless children and the shelters for battered and abused children. The animals allowed these kids to make amazing changes, rapidly. Monty Roberts, the original horse whisperer, talks about how when he gives a demonstration of how to work with a horse that has been mistreated that several women in the audience will faint or abreact. Just like the horse, they respond to his body language. They have been abused before, either as children or adults.

Michael White said:

Is there a "feeding zoo" close to where he lives? Is there a way for him to interact where he feeds an animal? Horses or goats? Feeding others is a loving act. Feeding himself is a loving act. Perhaps the unconscious will make the connection as he is hand feeding an animal. Perhaps give him some responsibility where he is caring for wounded animals. Feeding and tending to them. This isn't about what happened but who he can become as a human being. Perhaps he will feed himself understanding that he is responsible for others?

If nothing else, it'll get grandma out of the house.

Stay well,

Michael White

Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on September 24, 2009 at 8:14am

Thank you Melissa, Michael and Mr. Green...

Melissa, I can relate to what you are saying about ponies and horses having a profound effect on children...I trained high end show horses for about 35 years and what you experienced was non-stop at my farm. Kids would peer through the fence and talk to the horses for hours. I can also relate to it at a personal level because my love of ponies and horses as a child kept me sane through a considerable amount of abuse.

This grandma has her hands full just getting through the day with these three kids. The system certainly provides no support whatever (Ontario Canada). She is 68 and her entire retirement and finances are given over to recovering these children. She is doing an absolutely marvelous job, particularly when you compare this situation with similar others that are following the conventional drugging modality to control them.

Interaction with other adults is out of the question for this boy...at least right now. As is much travelling, since the younger siblings are also a little unpredictable still. They live in a city, therefore farm animals and the like would not be handy. As far as taking on a pet, I think it would be just too much for this lone caregiver and she could not manage the extra expense or chaos. But the stories she could manage because she reads to them as it is and the ones provided are a great start.

Thanks a bunch,
Grace :)







Melissa J. Roth said:

I love this suggestion. Even better would be to get him a pet, especially one that has been wounded, abused or is handicapped in some way and he should be the caretaker. You have to watch him however because children who have been abused will often act out aggression toward animals or younger siblings. But, it's a great way to end the cycle of abuse by educating him that no matter how frustrated or angry, etc that you do not take it out on a living thing. Then help him find ways to express his emotions in healthy ways.

When my sister was director of the humane society we used to take the abandoned/abused/neglected ponies (I live on a small farm). We would rehab the ponies by letting children interact with them. You could always tell the children who were in the most need emotinally. The other kids would pet the ponies for awhile and then wander off to more interesting things. Invariably, there would be 1 or 2 kids who just couldn't pull themselves away all day long. They were stuck like glue to those animals. They fed them. They watered them. They groomed them. Even at meal time, they just didn't leave. We finally caught on and started taking the ponies to the daycare for homeless children and the shelters for battered and abused children. The animals allowed these kids to make amazing changes, rapidly. Monty Roberts, the original horse whisperer, talks about how when he gives a demonstration of how to work with a horse that has been mistreated that several women in the audience will faint or abreact. Just like the horse, they respond to his body language. They have been abused before, either as children or adults.

Michael White said:

Is there a "feeding zoo" close to where he lives? Is there a way for him to interact where he feeds an animal? Horses or goats? Feeding others is a loving act. Feeding himself is a loving act. Perhaps the unconscious will make the connection as he is hand feeding an animal. Perhaps give him some responsibility where he is caring for wounded animals. Feeding and tending to them. This isn't about what happened but who he can become as a human being. Perhaps he will feed himself understanding that he is responsible for others?

If nothing else, it'll get grandma out of the house.

Stay well,

Michael White

Permalink Reply by Michael White on September 24, 2009 at 8:49am

Children tend to want to be something when they grow up. Perhaps having the grandmother ask the boy first what he wants to be (I've had a lot of kids at my practice say NASCAR drivers lately which I think is great) and then have him list out the necessary qualities to become what he wants to be like strength, bravery, focus, healthy gums, etc. And then have him come up with a list of foods that will be necessary for him to become who he wants to be. And then feed him those foods, and then later introducing different amounts and types as he feels more that he is becoming who he wants to be.

This also can work with helping kids learn to enjoy homework.

Permalink Reply by Grace Joubarne on September 24, 2009 at 9:02am

Hi Michael,
I like that one...will build that 'goal' into the story-lines, sort of as an add-on. I'll ask the grandma if she can determine what he'd like to be...may be too worried about staying alive to think about grand things like a future though...

Grace :)

Michael White said:

Children tend to want to be something when they grow up. Perhaps having the grandmother ask the boy first what he wants to be (I've had a lot of kids at my practice say NASCAR drivers lately which I think is great) and then have him list out the necessary qualities to become what he wants to be like strength, bravery, focus, healthy gums, etc. And then have him come up with a list of foods that will be necessary for him to become who he wants to be. And then feed him those foods, and then later introducing different amounts and types as he feels more that he is becoming who he wants to be.

This also can work with helping kids learn to enjoy homework.

Permalink Reply by Michael White on September 24, 2009 at 9:40am

Awesome. There are a lot of great ideas and thank you for being so receptive to them!

I will posit that part of survival (and moving toward healthy, happy and healing) is designing a grand future (looking foward to) as far as humans are concerned, so what I'm suggesting is all part of this process.

The faster we can get him away from "forced feces eater" and faster to "vibrant young healthy amazing human kid who has wonderful talents to contribute" the better it is for him. Of course, that will require all adults in his life right now to already see him like this without fail (which I'm sure everyone does). We're the eff ups, not him or any other child. From my experience children are smarter than most (not all) adults think. He's lucky to have you both.

Okay I'm off! Good luck to you! This was helpful for me to participate in this discussion.

Michael

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