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Help with Childhood Defiance please?
I've been a part time hypnotherapist for 2 1/2 years with pretty good success rates. I've never dealt with this particular issue though.
How does one help a client who does not desire the change?
The first session I asked him what he would like to be better at and I tied the suggestions together "the better you do at *parents desire* then the better you get at *child's desire*.
The second session we attempted a regression to cause of anger but he blocked it. I did also teach him self hypnosis and gave him a great lecture on the powerfulness of daily practice.
The third session I was going to finish the regression but in talking to him he admitted he still had no desire to change so I decided to do a progression and led him into a painful glimpse of the future should he continue on this path.
I thought that this would plant the seeds for the desire to change.
The loving mother and very caring and loving step father reported that his OCD (which I didn't even work on) has greatly improved, but that the manipulation/anger/rebellious behaviors have not and they are greatly affecting the other children in the home, some older some younger. The behavior comes from the biological father who has extreme mental issues. This is the only child who will still visit him. This bio father is an abusive and neglectful and deceitful parent, but the child goes because he lets him do whatever he wants unattended for a whole week. This 11 year old boy has gotten addicted to porn because of this and other damaging things. This child has openly admitted to manipulating family situations to cause siblings pain. The parents have had him in therapy for years with no success. The therapist has even almost given up on him. Ideas please from some more seasoned practitioners than myself?
Thank you,
Debbie
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Barry Neale on -
Hi,
it's really difficult to work with children under these circumstances. You have to understand that the behaviors that he is exhibiting are behaviors that he feels at some level are benefiting him so when he is dragged along to some hypnotist to "fix" him you are going to have a fight on your hands.
Personally I wouldn't attempt hypnosis in this situation. I would work with the family. I would work with the mother, father, stepfather, other children in and if not the father then maybe the grandparents. I would attempt a strategic invention based on the work of Cloe Madanes.
This is not something that I can teach you how to do via a message, so I think that you might want to consider referring him out.
If you would like more information about Strategic interventions then I recommend the book Strategic Family Therapy by Cloe Madanes. A lot of it comes from the work of Erickson so if you have some training in Erickson's work you can learn a lot from this book that you could use with this family.
best wishes
barry
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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on -
Question: How does one help a client who does not desire the change?
Answer - I believe the "answer" is case dependent - Example if some one was not sure they wanted to stop smoking and wanted me to help them quit - I would help them decide that they are ready-willing and able to stop smoking before working with them. On the other hand, I do not think that I would take on a youngster who did not want my help.
FYI - I do not recommend leading future clients on progressions into painful glimpses of the future should they continue on a path. A highly suggestible client could process the activity in a way that is unhealthy or harmful
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Permalink Reply by Debbie on
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I am familiar with self fulfilling suggestions, I undid the progression afterwards of course.
Help them decide they have the desire for change - that is what I am seeking to accomplish!
The youngster stated that he did want to change the first two sessions. It was only the last one that he admitted he probably didn't really want to. So now I'm already in the middle.....
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Permalink Reply by Edd Schultz on -
Debbie,
In addition to being a hypnotherapist I'm alsoan ADD/ADHD coach. Sounds like this kid may have ODD - Oppositional Defiant Disorder. In this case, I would refer you to the work of Russell Barkley, an authority on ADHD and ODD. Check google and amazon, etc. Learn as much as you can about ODD before proceeding. This is treacherous territory.
Note: I'm not trying to label or pigeon-hole the kid, but it helps to be informed by research.
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Thank you! I will look into it right now! That's exactly what it is, though the therapists he's been through haven't "diagnosed" him. If they had, I would have declined working with him. The mom just informed me that 2 therapists have quit on him and the third is about too. Poor family. I really want to help. This is an amazing mother. She spends her whole life dedicated to her kids and helping other people. I just really want to help! There has to be a way. We are who people seek when traditional methods fail, are we not?
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Welch on -
Hi in the UK if a child was left unattended for a whole week and is allowed to do whatever they want including looking at porn at the age of 11, it would be a child protection issue and a multi agency approach I'm sure this is the case in other countries!!! I would look at who else is working with the child and I hope social care are involved, join up the work and then proceed with a systemic approach otherwise I fear any initial gains may be quickly lost due to the polar parenting and dysfunctional behaviour brought back in to the family home after visits with dad.
What rules and values do the family live by, what consequences exist if the rules, values are ignored or broken. What are his peer to peer relationships like? I agree with Barry hypnosis may not be the way to go ACT and some mindfulness, plus some forgiveness may be a better approach when applied systemically?
Smiles Nath
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Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on -
another perspective...
This isn't just a child's issue. I always find it a bit annoying (not at you or anyone in particular...just in general) and a bit, sickly comical, when parents want to 'change' their child. When...this behavior the child has, didn't happen in a glass bubble!
It reminds me of a story ~grin~. I've told it before, so...I'll make it brief on the 2nd (3rd?) telling of it.
Here it goes:
A mother goes into a grocery store, the child starts crying, the mother is tired...and has shopping to do, so she hands her child a toy.
the next visit...same thing happens. Although...it might be candy instead of a toy, etc.
the next visit...same thing happens.
One day...the mother, feeling refreshed and ready for her day, goes to the store, the child starts crying, the mother feels like she can 'take it on today' and tells the child to stop it, she isn't buying anything today. The child cries harder. The mom again tells the child to stop or get a spanking. The child has a fit bigger than all tantrums. The mom takes the child out of the cart and smacks his/her bottom and places the child back in the cart.
Essentially....what just happened?
The child just got reprimanded ...for something the mother has reinforced over and over again. When a behavior is reinforced...it is likely to occur again. When you try to change behavior, it will get worse before it gets better (ie: the tantrum).
This story to me.....is boardering on child abuse. The only thing keeping it from being child abuse is the fact that the parent didn't know she was encouraging the exact behavior that she doesn't want.
So...one must ask...in this scenario that you give us.... how do you know what is being reinforced? You don't. It is up to the parents to become self-aware and find out if they are indeed....reinforcing the exact behavior they don't want.
The parents are in need of parenting skills and should be seeking more information on how to be a parent to a child who is having issues. It really doesn't matter how good of a parent you think these people are - you simply don't know....what goes on in the day to day life of this child and what is being reinforced.
Also....if the psych has given up or has given the indication that they are about to give up - they need to find a new one. a.s.a.p.
Hope this is ...helpful.
D.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Kennedy on -
If I were a child in that situation, I would have a hard time trusting anyone. I would be highly suspicious of anyone who said they were "on my side." I would be vigilant for hidden agendas. To gain my trust, someone would have to really listen to me and demonstrate that they understood what I was saying. Even then, I would be very slow to trust, so that person would have to make a series of promises and then earn my trust by keeping those promises.
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Permalink Reply by Celeste Hackett, CH on -
Please read and give the parents the book "Wolf in Sheeps Clothing". This book may answer a lot of questions for you and them. Also, EVEN if it is a child, I never work with anyone who doesnt want to change. It's a waste of time.
Bless you and have a great week!
Celeste
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Permalink Reply by Michelle Braun on
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Permalink Reply by Fay Kelly on -
In working with children I ALWAYS focus on what type of changes the child would like to have happen in their life and expand on that to work. Poor kid probably has a lot of anger and I would never do a regression to cause on a child his age. I try to work from the angle of giving them personal power over their life by finding the "magic power" within their "magic mind." In other words, teach him to go to a special place of peace and inner power within himself. Have him find colors, images etc. about where this is within him while in hypnosis so it all comes from him. Let him learn how to use that special place within himself to help him with things that he likes (sports, video games, skate boarding etc) and anchor it in him.
As his personal power increases, they begin to feel more confident about themselves and a lot of problems disappear. Remember his family are the ones causing this issue and they need some work too.
Good luck! Fay
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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on -
I think your scenario is the most likely Donna ;)
John
Donna Carter said:another perspective...
This isn't just a child's issue. I always find it a bit annoying (not at you or anyone in particular...just in general) and a bit, sickly comical, when parents want to 'change' their child. When...this behavior the child has, didn't happen in a glass bubble!
It reminds me of a story ~grin~. I've told it before, so...I'll make it brief on the 2nd (3rd?) telling of it.
Here it goes:
A mother goes into a grocery store, the child starts crying, the mother is tired...and has shopping to do, so she hands her child a toy.
the next visit...same thing happens. Although...it might be candy instead of a toy, etc.
the next visit...same thing happens.
One day...the mother, feeling refreshed and ready for her day, goes to the store, the child starts crying, the mother feels like she can 'take it on today' and tells the child to stop it, she isn't buying anything today. The child cries harder. The mom again tells the child to stop or get a spanking. The child has a fit bigger than all tantrums. The mom takes the child out of the cart and smacks his/her bottom and places the child back in the cart.
Essentially....what just happened?
The child just got reprimanded ...for something the mother has reinforced over and over again. When a behavior is reinforced...it is likely to occur again. When you try to change behavior, it will get worse before it gets better (ie: the tantrum).
This story to me.....is boardering on child abuse. The only thing keeping it from being child abuse is the fact that the parent didn't know she was encouraging the exact behavior that she doesn't want.
So...one must ask...in this scenario that you give us.... how do you know what is being reinforced? You don't. It is up to the parents to become self-aware and find out if they are indeed....reinforcing the exact behavior they don't want.
The parents are in need of parenting skills and should be seeking more information on how to be a parent to a child who is having issues. It really doesn't matter how good of a parent you think these people are - you simply don't know....what goes on in the day to day life of this child and what is being reinforced.
Also....if the psych has given up or has given the indication that they are about to give up - they need to find a new one. a.s.a.p.
Hope this is ...helpful.
D.
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