How many times deeper !?!

Most deepeners/fractionations suggest that the hypnotee goes a number of times deeper (e.g. is 1000 times just enough, Elman's 10 times or I'll count down from 3 to 1& when I get to 1 you are 50 times deeper).

It's very rare but I have encountered resistance (once from an analytical doctor). Of course I understand that deepeners is a way of asking the client to follow our instructions and become more open to our suggestions.

But how am I going to maintain credibility, when I'm asking clients to go so many times deeper, assume they've done it and carry on. In reality this numbering system doesn't quite ring true with me.

It must be better to leave the numbers out altogether and say: let yourself go a bit deeper than before or way down.

Any thoughts/experiences shared are valued.

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Permalink Reply by Roy Hunter on February 19, 2012 at 1:14pm

While "ten times deeper" seems to work for a lot of clients, this suggestion can backfire with an analytical person. (I'm analytical, and it backfired when I was a student of Charles Tebbetts in 1983.)

With analytical clients, I say "You can either double the hypnosis or triple the trance..." and this works much better for the analytical resister, even thought it is not a guarantee. Master a number of different deepening suggestions in order to fit the technique to the client.

Roy Hunter

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Permalink Reply by Barry Neale on February 19, 2012 at 1:30pm

I totally agree with Roy. These scripts with 1000 xs deeper are asking for trouble.

Most of the time I just say I am going to count from 10 down to 1 and as I do I want you to go deeper. For some people even doubling the level is a problem.

Remember what you are really after is for them to follow your suggestions. I am not overly analytical but even I would have trouble following a suggestion to go 1000 x's deeper!

regards

barry

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Permalink Reply by Jesus Gonzalez on February 19, 2012 at 1:34pm

In reality this numbering system doesn't quite ring true with me.

Renember how Pythagoras spoke about numbers as quality and not as quantities.

For example, ask what's the favourite number of the person (symbol)

Then tell them, for example, that they are drifting all the way down a hill to this "golden number" with X feeling. , or maybe, climbing stairs up to this "magic number" with X feeling.

Then this is what I would do in this case, "suggesting a feeling" (in their imagination, but it will have an effect on their reality) and you are using an already unconscious symbol of the person for the number, his/her favourite.

I understand 1000 times deeper as a confusion deepning "phrase/pattern", which let you continue giving other new suggestions to work (while "the other side is busy") - eg. go 1000 times deeper (as you can feel yourself more relaxed/as you can feel how your arm relaxes even more) . confusion->lead

Jesus

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Permalink Reply by Roy Hunter on February 19, 2012 at 1:41pm

While the imagery of a slope might work for some people, it could trigger a fear or phobia with others. Any time we use imagery in an induction, we should ask the client in advance of the trance whether he/she would be comfortable with the chosen imagery.

One person's peaceful place can be another person's phobia. I learned it the hard way when asking a client to imagine walking on a beautiful wooded trail. She flung her hand by her face, yelling "BUGS!" and then she opened her eyes to tell me she hated the woods because she was afraid of all the bugs.

Also, @Barry, the "double the hypnosis or triple the trance" statement might not be totally correct, but experience has demonstrated its effectiveness even with most (but not all) analytical clients. That is probably because it is an Ericksonian double bind (either/or choice).

Roy

Jesus Gonzalez said:

In reality this numbering system doesn't quite ring true with me.

Pythagoras talk about numbers as quality and not as quantities.

For example, ask what's the favourite number of the person (symbol)

Then tell them, for example, that they are drifting all the way down from a slope to this number, or maybe, climbing stairs up to this "magic number" with X feeling. Then this is what's called "start suggesting a feeling" (in their imagination, but it will have an effect on their reality) and you are using an already unconscious symbol of the person for the number, his/her favourite.

Jesus

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Permalink Reply by Jesus Gonzalez on February 19, 2012 at 1:56pm

I know, I have modified a bit the post, I clicked "Add Reply" too fast.

Of course, it induce a "movement" and ambiguous feeling, I could feel it while writting, this is why I let it written, because as you read it it would impact better in the (re)understanding of how linking symbol and feelings with situations works.

I said in some previous post that if you take the judgement beforehand for what the person like, then you might go good or bad. It's better to ask and know about the person

Where would you like to relax today? - In the beach.

Then you can work something with this place.

Jesus

Roy Hunter said:

While the imagery of a slope might work for some people, it could trigger a fear or phobia with others. Any time we use imagery in an induction, we should ask the client in advance of the trance whether he/she would be comfortable with the chosen imagery.

One person's peaceful place can be another person's phobia. I learned it the hard way when asking a client to imagine walking on a beautiful wooded trail. She flung her hand by her face, yelling "BUGS!" and then she opened her eyes to tell me she hated the woods because she was afraid of all the bugs.

Also, @Barry, the "double the hypnosis or triple the trance" statement might not be totally correct, but experience has demonstrated its effectiveness even with most (but not all) analytical clients. That is probably because it is an Ericksonian double bind (either/or choice).

Roy

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on February 19, 2012 at 6:23pm

but...but...what if they say..."go deeper...where? or double what?" Give me something I can really count on every time.

LOL

John

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Permalink Reply by George Guarino on February 19, 2012 at 6:33pm

Terms like: You can always go deeper... and... go all the way down... and... find a place that's even deeper... and just let it come in... as if it was 10 times deeper... work for me.

The intensity is what you're really after... I find I actually use the word 'intense' more lately, and it works well, especially when couples with "and you do feel good, don't you?". Who wouldn't want to feel more intensely good?

Don't get hung up on 1000 times deeper. That really is a bit of a stretch to imagine. G

I've always loved Roy's 'double the hypnosis or triple the trance' . I'm glad he mentioned it here.

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Permalink Reply by Lisa on February 19, 2012 at 6:39pm

Hi Vana,

I would favor using "much deeper" or "deeper still" "more deeply (relaxed, peaceful, serene, etc)" or if one doesn't like the word deep some other word that might connote expansion or whatever you might use. Ive used the phrase twice as deep or twice as relaxed but 10 times or 50 times or 100 would make me laugh or as a subject resist as well possibly at the seeming siliness of it. I'm taught that a client should only be asked to go as deeply as they themselves choose and feel comfortable with. I trust that that is really happening regardless of the number used but I'd still feel some cognitive dissonance at suggesting some number to it or having it suggested to me.

gentle day,

Lisa

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Permalink Reply by Lisa on February 19, 2012 at 6:42pm

Hi Jesus,

Interesting idea. I had a person tell me they preferred things in 3 because this always worked well with them.

gentle eve'

Lisa

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on February 19, 2012 at 7:26pm

Hi Vanna,

I imagine that for many people "deeper" is as vague as "10X deeper" - If I were using deeper - I'd play with it

"Deeper & deeper, more peaceful and at ease and as you feel more peaceful and at ease you automatically move more deeply into this experience and I wonder how quickly you will notice just how good it feels to have a deep felt sense of peacefulness and ease...blah, blah, blah...

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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on February 19, 2012 at 7:52pm

I have never used the word "deeper" with a client, since trance depth does not even exist.

I simply tell them (like roy) "Double your awareness of relaxation" or "Double the sensation of calm" Or "Double the feeling of serenity you have created..." "Double your awareness of the change that you have made" etc. etc.

Double is something people understand. I have never used any other modifier in my suggestion.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on February 19, 2012 at 8:10pm

"Double your pleasure - Double your fun"

Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com said:

I have never used the word "deeper" with a client, since trance depth does not even exist.

I simply tell them (like roy) "Double your awareness of relaxation" or "Double the sensation of calm" Or "Double the feeling of serenity you have created..." "Double your awareness of the change that you have made" etc. etc.

Double is something people understand. I have never used any other modifier in my suggestion.