Hypnosis and National Health Care

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Permalink Reply by Laura E. Mirian on March 19, 2009 at 7:32pm

Hi Don,

The number is growing exponentially as more people lose their jobs. This is what I think will fuel the flames of nationalized health care.

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on March 20, 2009 at 12:44am

The media produces what is most news-worthy, not what is most accurate or informative. It's the nature of the beast. Who wants to watch programmes about people doing their jobs well and being happy in them?!

The Brits are very, very good at moaning, it's a national occupation. It doesn't mean that there's major financial/recuitment/care standard crises. The NHS is funded through taxation, so financial restraints come from rationalising resources where there are many options on where to spend the cash (and as a national concern, the NHS has obligations to the taxpayer to make these decisions wisely). Recruitment: there's always difficulties with recruiting to health service posts in the UK, and healthcare in both the public and private sectors sees cyclical mass exodus away from healthcare, and a major influx of staff. Care standards are closely monitored, and findings made public, and any person who wants their 15 minutes of fame can shout that their loved one/they/someone they know had a bad experience.
Furthermore, with only limited knowledge and a sensationalist media to fuel a fire of negativity, it's hardly surprising that the people you know aren't dashing back to the UK for healthcare which is free at the point of delivery! There are many healthcare migrants who come to the UK to become 'health tourists', and benefit from the healthcare system which makes even the most ridiculously expensive treatments available to the poorest people.

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Permalink Reply by Don on March 20, 2009 at 3:36am

Here's a link to Physicians for a National Health Plan, which is open to physicians and non-physicians alike. My wife and I have been to some of their meetings, and they're a fine group of people (almost on a par with Hypnothoughts!)

PNHP maintains an excellent data base of facts from sources like the United Nations World Health Organization, comparing the quality, affordability, availability, and overall cost of health care in the United states and other countries. Read 'em and weep!

http://www.pnhp.org.

Don

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Permalink Reply by Amanda Irvine on March 20, 2009 at 5:57am

I am in Canada and all I have to say is I am sure glad that we have national health care, in the province I am in our government pretty much pays for our health care.. Most things are covered... Yes we do have long wait times, which can cause frustrations, but the point of the matter is I don't have to worry about weather or not I can Afford to go to the hospital, doctor ect... For me I have a Life long illness, that in the past has caused me to have to be hospitalized.... If I had to pay for that I would be by now thousands of dollars in debt.. I like the fact that where I live doesn't put a price on my health....If you need that MRI or CT there are ways to get it faster, and most doctors are pretty good in getting you in fast... that's the reason for the long wait times, as it works on a priority basis... I am not saying our health care is perfect, but I least I have Health Care.....!!!

Those are just my thoughts.. I am not by any means all for I do believe that a mixture of both Public and Private health care should exist. give people the option... this would hopefully cut down on wait times, or atleast provide an alternative...

Cheers!~
Amanda

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Permalink Reply by Joshua Kurtenbach on March 20, 2009 at 2:03pm

Hi Kathleen,

I'm sorry but I have to correct you on the lower life expectencies in countries with universal health care. Actualy Canada has the 8th highest life expectancy in the world (according to the 2008 CIA World Fact Book) at 81.23, the UK is 36th at 79.01, and the US is 50th at 78.11. I also have to correct you on wait times. According to the Fraser Institute in 2008 you wait 6 WEEKS not months for an MRI. The average wait time for cardiac surgery is 1 WEEK not a year. The reason some people wait more than others is that it is done on a priority basis on how sick they are, not how much money they have.

I also disagree with you on some points that you have made. First off, I don't know any Canadians who would rather pay less taxes and do away with universal healthcare. Also seniors get some of the greatest health care in the country. My Opa became very ill very fast and when we took him to the hospital he was able to get lifesaving procedures to prolong his life.

And I have a question for you too. How do you justify someone loosing their home because they had to PAY to live. While the rich live healthily. You're right, you can get healthcare imediatly in the United States, but you have to pay for it! Not everyone can afford insurance.

I have two chronic illnesses, my younger brother has three. If it were not for medicare in Canada my family would be living on the street and me and my brother would possibly be dead or for sure in very poor health.

Isn't healthcare an essencial service like police or fire departments? How would you like to have to pay for each time you had to call the police? Or pay for insurance every month just incase your house ever caught fire because the firetruck won't come to your house unless you have it? Would you want the police and the fire departments to have a systems like the US health "care" system? If your answere was "No, of course not!" Then why should health care be any less "essential" then fire or police services?

To me, health is a right, not a privilege I have to pay per visit.

- Josh

PS
And I'm not trying to be rude Kathleen, but next time you degrade something make sure you have your facts strait and aren't just giving your opinion. There is a place for opinion, but if your gonna degrade something like that again don't mislead others with your thoughts rather then facts. Thank you.

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Permalink Reply by Joshua Kurtenbach on March 20, 2009 at 2:07pm

I don't beleive that hypnotherapy will be affected at all by nationalizing health care. In Canada hypnotherapy is not covered in our medicare. To be honest I don't beleive there is any legislation on hypnosis in general in Canada. But I feel that because there are no state boards that regulate hypnotherapy (there is one state but I cannot recall what it is.).

-Josh

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on March 20, 2009 at 2:44pm

Hi Josh,

Word to your corrected facts. Health is a right, but health care is not. It is however a vital service that any "modern" society ought to be investing in... but then you have to see human beings as worth while investments, rather than nature's most abundantly renewable resource.

I don't poo poo profit motive, as it is a valuable engine of ingenuity, however, on paper, no one in the US is ever denied care due to lack of funds... someone may have to pay later, but they will get the care... Witness the use of the ER by non-papered residents.

If the US ever decides to create a viable tax payer based health care system, I would hope that it would continue to inspire innovation in the field of health care, rather than disease treatment... which is hopefully what we are discussing as hypnotists.

I do not believe that a CHt with a weekend degree should be allowed to collect insurance payments, nor do I believe it is needed for a personal business to thrive. Dare I quote "render unto Ceaser that which is his..." as an analogy for what I mean here?

As far as the "echo" effect of a poorly formed national character I believe it is much to their detriment, those who continue to believe that we exist in any kind of capitalistic "society" where the only role of govt. is protector of the soil, and arbiter of honest disputes. They are either working the sheeple to their disadvantage, or are genuinely ignorant of the world in which we live and exchange goods and services.

For example... on the island upon which I live, unrestrained hick thinking would have poisoned all our wells years ago, as people "rationally" chose to dispose of toxic waste on their own property, after all it is THEIRS and is their RIGHT to do with as they please, so long as no one is DIRECTLY harmed... all the while leaching the soil connecting us all with refuse of their ignorance.

Those who would encourage the ignorant to do as they will while ignoring those horrid science mongers, do so ultimately at their own peril. Although their is nothing "immoral" about a "short-sell".

J

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Permalink Reply by Emily on March 20, 2009 at 8:34pm

What a touchy subject. I personally believe that insurance companies should allow hypnotherapy to be done by trained hypnotherapists. I would happily agree to a contracted rate of around $55 an hour and feel it would enhance my practice quite a bit. Do I believe this will ever happen? Doubt it.

P.S. I am a HT and know the drill about cash pay, but I can't afford to cash pay myself so I went through Aetna's entire list of psychologists and called everyone until I found someone who knew hypnosis and would bill as regular counseling. That totally limits me on selecting my own care provider, but at least my insurance pays for it. I can't imagine how many others are like me who would like the service, but can't afford it.

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Permalink Reply by Don on March 21, 2009 at 5:44am

Richard,

I agree that this would work -- if only people were not so inherently narcissistic. But how in the heck would you persuade people to care enough for their fellow human beings in a totally libertarian society which had been dismantled to operate solely the principle of every man for himself? We can't even do it in today's society, regardless of what may have been the case in some American Camelot in the past. And did Camelot ever really exist? Most historians doubt it.

Annette and I were in front of the Rathaus (the city hall) in Vienna on Austria's National Day last year, listening to a pop concert. Across the street was a plaza in which Hitler had harrangued a half million ecstatic Austrians a few decades before, as Austria was annexed into the Reich. I remembered the pictures I had seen of that same Rathaus, draped with Nazi banners. As we listened to the modern pop tunes, I was struck by the difference between then and now -- until the band played their final selection, "Let's Do the Time Warp Again!"

Mein Gott!

What kind of a time warp would it take for us to return America to the "ideal" society which you describe? How "ideal" was it really? And how would you set up such a time warp without another mass movement centered around a charismatic leader?

I'm not so sure that we want to do the time warp again. . . .

Don

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Permalink Reply by Don on March 21, 2009 at 9:51am

Hi Emily,

Providers of this type do exist. I'm a licensed psychologist in NJ, and my wife is a Ph.D. Licensed Professional Counselor, or LPC. We operate a practice on Long Beach Island, and we both take insurance. We use hypnosis as the treatment of choice for those clients who are willing and who respond sufficiently well to suggestion. Other providers can be located in the U.S. by calling your State psychological association or State counseling association and asking for the names of licensed psychologists or licensed professional counselors who list hypnosis as one of their specialties, which should give you some choice.

I think that the insurance companies will eventually come around, simply because they won't have to pay hypnotists as much as they do licensed psychologists. (They've started to reimburse counselors for precisely this reason!) The clients, on the other hand, only have a co-pay to worry about, which is typically between twenty and thirty dollars, regardless of what the piece of paper says on the wall.

Don

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Permalink Reply by Joshua Johnston on March 21, 2009 at 10:35am

Wasn't it more of the churches being forced to give up responsibility because the gov't took over? Either way, the church's role in providing care and help has greatly declined, and it should be much, much higher than it is.

That said, I believe I've also heard/read that Americans in general tend to be the most charitable people. Giving to charities, donating time, etc. I wonder how much *more* of that we'd do for our own needy, if it weren't for the gov't assuming responsibility?

Joshua

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Permalink Reply by Laura E. Mirian on March 21, 2009 at 6:24pm

Hi Don- One action that has already started to include alternative practitioners has started at the University of California, San Francisco's Oshner Center. This is an alternative health center that uses various forms of treatment and practitioners in their program. All practitioners wishing to practice at the center present their credentials and are inteviewed by a panel from the center prior to being accepted/or not accepted to practice. I think this model may be used for alternative practitioners if health care is nationalized.

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