Hypnosis is termed as suggestible acts performed by clients.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by AK. RATHOD PsychoHypnotist INDIA on February 26, 2010 at 11:35pm

Yes , it is true that many suggested acts may be performed even without inducing " trance state."
Even the trance is also a suggested act. The degree of trance depends on nature of suggestion, acceptability by the client.
Even entire hypnotic behavior is suggestible and hence it is a suggested behavior.

The subject / client is a "real performer actor" as per the direction of "well fabricated audio stream" coming from the hypnotist or from an "audio player".

There fore the role of well trained, qualified hypnotist is a roll of best director capable of handling the client using his skills of best scripted audio stream flow in soothing monotonous voice.

You are most welcome to suggest your right opinion for discussion on this vital subject.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ricky Strode on February 26, 2010 at 11:59pm

I think of it this way cause-effect. That is also because of the kind of hypnosis I usually do. I don't like induction, because that would mean they aren't already in a trance when I am with them and being around me in person it is really hard for anyone to try and stay conscious. I aways am doing things here and there and I do it all so often they just go deeper. People say they forget, become dazed and confused, or just daze completly out when talking to me. I got so wound up in practicing it had became habitiual, but atleast I can keep it in a light to almost nonexistant trance during normal conversation. I do like to play around with everyones unconscious to learn more and affect more. I know this is kind of a repeat, but I wanted the each of both of you to "feel what I am saying", now and then it is good to see things differently and hearn a new perspectve. Even if you don't agree or perhaps yu do and that is up to you. As long as we advance in trance in and tracning down thats just fine. People can always go deeper still into things do you see any points in this message.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by bob burns on February 27, 2010 at 4:41am

Ricky Strode said:
[quote]
being around me in person it is really hard for anyone to try and stay conscious. I aways am doing things here and there and I do it all so often they just go deeper. People say they forget, become dazed and confused, or just daze completly out when talking to me.
[/quote]

This is perfectly natural behaviour of course when in the presence of a great hypnotist. Many of the people in here, including me, are sick fed up with people simply collapsing at our feet as we merely gaze into their eyes and cough. What are we to do? How are we to control these gifts? It's a mystery!!!

Bob

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on February 27, 2010 at 5:50am

Here is a somewhat different model of hypnosis :)

I have found that hypnosis is simply the purposeful induction of a trance state, by whatever means is successful.

In short, hypnosis instigates trance.

I have found that trance, is a natural state for our species in which we automatically react to outside input.

Trance is necessary for us because the analytical mind can only do one thing at a time, and yet we have a survival need to do more than one thing at a time. Trance is the only way we are able to do this multi-tasking.

Hypnosis takes advantage of these trance states by realizing that the outside input that we automatically react to, can be in the form of a suggestion, and reacting to these suggestions will amplify our acceptance of the outside input from the same source.

Trance has nothing to do with relaxation, or sleep, those are just suggestions that we know how to react to.

Eye closure is also not required, as we use mini trance states ourselves every day, all day long.

The analytical mind is very used to being front and center lucid during a trance state, it only begins to go dormant when we deepen the trance.

This model was the basis of my book "The Nature of Trance".

I hope I said this in an understandable manner
John

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by AK. RATHOD PsychoHypnotist INDIA on February 28, 2010 at 9:07am

The influence [ name, fame, position ] of well reputed hypnotist works automatically, since the clients are "auto suggestible" having "faith, respect and submission" for "IMAGE of HYPNOTIST". It is known as "implied suggestion" working between Teacher / students , Doctor / patients, Guru / follower, Leader / followers, Actor / fans, National President / common people, Girlfriend / boyfriends etc etc and since they are suggestible they follow suggestions blindly as in waking hypnosis. Many religious trance, suggested trance, auto induced trance are the results of programmed [ previously suggested ] acts. Here we must consider " Self Talk" of the client / subject during "self thinking" about any respected / elder, performer, artist, magician, police, faith healers, popular personalities are working as Hypnotist for "some followers".

The suggestibility and the acceptability for "suggestions" from any one or some one, is dependent on client / follower state of mind.
One example:
A hypnotist tried his level best to hypnotise his lady client by trying 10 best methods available with him. But he failed in inducing the so called trance, Finally he asked the lady , "what do you know about hypnosis?" . She replied " as I have seen in movie , hypnotist swings a pendulum and client goes in trance!" Hypnotist followed her suggestion ! He brought pendulum and just started swinging, the lady was in trance!!!

[ The " self suggested concept "about Hypnosis was so strong in the mind of the lady that she went in deep trance within minutes just by seeing the swinging pendulum in the right hand of Hypnotist.]

Thanks for reply.

bob burns said:

Ricky Strode said:
[quote] being around me in person it is really hard for anyone to try and stay conscious. I aways am doing things here and there and I do it all so often they just go deeper. People say they forget, become dazed and confused, or just daze completly out when talking to me. [/quote]
This is perfectly natural behaviour of course when in the presence of a great hypnotist. Many of the people in here, including me, are sick fed up with people simply collapsing at our feet as we merely gaze into their eyes and cough. What are we to do? How are we to control these gifts? It's a mystery!!!

Bob

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by docregal.com on March 1, 2010 at 8:26am

Without the client's faith or trust in the operator as well as his method of induction, a hypnotic procedure will be ineffective, as documented in the example AK has provided: He asked the lady,"What do you know about hypnosis?" She replied, "As I have seen in a movie, the hypnotist swings a pendulum and the client goes into trance!" Compliance therefore requires a client's perceived believability in the method as well as credibility in the process, so an appropriate means of suggestibility that is well suited to the client is required for hypnosis to take place.

Lacking the expectation of hypnotizability precludes trance depth. Narrowing the focus of the client's awareness is another predeterminate influence. Unsuitable environmental features may also interfere with an induction. An overactive, analytical or questioning brain can easily block out or override simple direct suggestions. Due to these reasons and other shortcomings that may be presented by others, one can surely surmise that declaring any one factor alone is the just cause for hypnosis is a fallacy.

Dr. Regal
Atlanta, GA
www.regalhypnosis.com

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on March 1, 2010 at 8:47am

There are only three requirements for someone to be hypnotized by someone who understands how; desire, permission, and the ability to follow instructions.

It has nothing to do with monotonic voices, or closing their eyes, or collapsing into a puddle at your feet.

Expectancy; be it from the reputation of someone, or an observed act of hypnosis, or by direct suggestion, greatly improves the trance enhancing process. It is one of the main support pillars of the foundation of hypnosis.

Trance is caused when we have to multi-task, the focus of the analytical mind creates the need for a trance state, especially when that focus goes inside the body. This applies to confusion/surprise, traditional inductions, or NLP.

Want to check this out for yourself? Get permission to hypnotize someone (sets expectancy), then ask what year they were in the 6th grade of primary school. While they go inside to get this info, just say either: Sleep, relax, or freeze. (words that have no doubt in their meaning or how to react to them) and snap your fingers. No yell, no yank, no grab, no touch...at all.

John

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on March 1, 2010 at 9:18am

Trance =
noun
1.
a half-conscious state, seemingly between sleeping and waking, in which ability to function voluntarily may be suspended.
2.
a dazed or bewildered condition.
3.
a state of complete mental absorption or deep musing.
4.
an unconscious, cataleptic, or hypnotic condition.
5.
Spiritualism. a temporary state in which a medium, with suspension of personal consciousness, is controlled by an intelligence from without and used as a means of communication, as from the dead.

Except as the pattern most people run when 'Hypnotised' trance has nothing to do with hypnosis at all. Except as the symptom of the acceptance of suggestion.

I can see why hypnotherapists need to believe and sell the point that rapport and trust are need to 'hypnotise'. Usually because they have taught and been taught that.

The truth is that fear and mistrust are just as easy to use to induce hypnosis because they can not be there without the pattern for hypnosis to occur. teach the use of what I call 'Awe Rapport' simply because for the majority of people it's faster and easier than trying to build trust and acceptance consciously.

Personally if fear and mistrust are there I use them. They go soon enough when the hypnotee has their beliefs confirmed. But it isn't My experience that they have to be there for hypnosis to work.

Hypnosis is quite simply the giving, accepting and management of psychological suggestion with the intent to create a specific process of events in the recipient, and nothing more nor less. Kreskin apparently proved that in a court of law in the United States winning his case that Hypnotic Trance does not exist and that all that happens is the acceptance of suggestion.

Now lets not get suggestion mixed up here. As with many English words it has more than one meaning. Hypnotic suggestion however is specifically:
a.
the process of inducing a thought, sensation, or action in a receptive person without using persuasion and without giving rise to reflection in the recipient.
b.
the thought, sensation, or action induced in this way.

So to think of 'Induction' and 'Suggestion' as to separate things is just wrong. To think of Hypnosis and Suggestion as two separate things is also just wrong.

And no, I didn't invent or chose the meanings of these words. I just choose to work wth them because it makes life easier.

The situation that causes the most misunderstanding as I see it is the use of 'Hypno' in HypnoTherapy which doesn't always employ suggestion and isn't always hypnosis.

I have no idea what catalepsy and hypnosis have to do with each other except that one can indeed induce catalepsy. But then one can induce fear, sexual excitement, and a deep belief in the restorative effects of mayonnaise for athletes foot. All of those can occur naturally without hypnosis as well.

I think the important thing is to understand where the inducement comes from and why it works because although it's the hypnotee that experiences change it s not the hypnotee that enduces that change. The act isn't the change, it's the result of the change induced by the hypnotist.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on March 1, 2010 at 9:57am

Jonathan,
This is why I had to redefine trance, the old definitions weren't accurate to what was actual.

I define trance as a natural state where we automatically react to outside (outside the body) input, as long as there is no reason not to.

Hypnosis is just the purposeful induction of this trance state, by whatever means is successful.

I wasn't at the trial, but I can understand why Kreskin would want the law to see it that way. What he says is true, as you can see from my definition above, except that the trance state is what facilitates the automatic responses.

A trance state is not a visible phenomena, no matter how limp you make a subject. We can enhance or "deepen" it as we say and it will produce some external indications, but that is something that we make happen with deepening, it does not happen naturally.

I agree that inductions are just composed of suggestions, that's all.

I had to re-define hypnosis and trance in order to accurately identify them. Just like the geographical shape of the world had to be re-defined, as round by Columbus in the Spanish court of Ferdinand and Isabella, in order to be accurate.

I had to do the same with the multiple minds model; conscious, subconscious, and super conscious, or conscious and unconscious just didn't accurately identify what was actual.

Catalepsy is a perfect example of automatic reaction to suggestion, and proves it is not a willful act.

John


Jonathan Chase said:

Trance =
noun 1. a half-conscious state, seemingly between sleeping and waking, in which ability to function voluntarily may be suspended. 2.
a dazed or bewildered condition.
3.
a state of complete mental absorption or deep musing.
4.
an unconscious, cataleptic, or hypnotic condition.
5.
Spiritualism. a temporary state in which a medium, with suspension of personal consciousness, is controlled by an intelligence from without and used as a means of communication, as from the dead.

Except as the pattern most people run when 'Hypnotised' trance has nothing to do with hypnosis at all. Except as the symptom of the acceptance of suggestion.

I can see why hypnotherapists need to believe and sell the point that rapport and trust are need to 'hypnotise'. Usually because they have taught and been taught that.

The truth is that fear and mistrust are just as easy to use to induce hypnosis because they can not be there without the pattern for hypnosis to occur. teach the use of what I call 'Awe Rapport' simply because for the majority of people it's faster and easier than trying to build trust and acceptance consciously.

Personally if fear and mistrust are there I use them. They go soon enough when the hypnotee has their beliefs confirmed. But it isn't My experience that they have to be there for hypnosis to work.

Hypnosis is quite simply the giving, accepting and management of psychological suggestion with the intent to create a specific process of events in the recipient, and nothing more nor less. Kreskin apparently proved that in a court of law in the United States winning his case that Hypnotic Trance does not exist and that all that happens is the acceptance of suggestion.

Now lets not get suggestion mixed up here. As with many English words it has more than one meaning. Hypnotic suggestion however is specifically:
a.
the process of inducing a thought, sensation, or action in a receptive person without using persuasion and without giving rise to reflection in the recipient.
b.
the thought, sensation, or action induced in this way.

So to think of 'Induction' and 'Suggestion' as to separate things is just wrong. To think of Hypnosis and Suggestion as two separate things is also just wrong.

And no, I didn't invent or chose the meanings of these words. I just choose to work wth them because it makes life easier.

The situation that causes the most misunderstanding as I see it is the use of 'Hypno' in HypnoTherapy which doesn't always employ suggestion and isn't always hypnosis.

I have no idea what catalepsy and hypnosis have to do with each other except that one can indeed induce catalepsy. But then one can induce fear, sexual excitement, and a deep belief in the restorative effects of mayonnaise for athletes foot. All of those can occur naturally without hypnosis as well.

I think the important thing is to understand where the inducement comes from and why it works because although it's the hypnotee that experiences change it s not the hypnotee that enduces that change. The act isn't the change, it's the result of the change induced by the hypnotist.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on March 1, 2010 at 10:11am

I prefer to use the dictionary understanding of the word John because it's what 99% of people understand as the meaning. Perhaps you should let them know your understanding?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on March 1, 2010 at 1:02pm

Jonathan,
Thank you for your delightful participation in the discussion on this topic. I have been doing what you suggested and have been letting others know my understanding. It is rapidly becoming their understanding also.

While I compiled a book about it and have it for sale on my website, it is really not that much about the money to me. I charge for it because I realized that "free" things have no value.

As an example; I gave away two copies of my book at Christmas time, to two different people, neither one read it. Yet; I currently sell one to two copies every day and get rave reviews from the hypnotists who bought it and who now use what I presented (see some of the reviews on my website from people here on hypnothoughts).

I sincerely want people to understand what they are doing with hypnosis and trance. What it is, how it works, why it works, so they can make it their own and move forward into a more successful future.

When they do, there is no more failure, no more wondering why what they did before didn't work.

My target audience isn't you Jonathan, or any of the other long timers here. For those like you to accept it could create some undesirable ramifications in your own businesses. You are my test bed. My hole finder if you will.

I purposely present this in these discussions for this purpose. It doesn't do me any good to present it to someone that has nothing else to go on. I present it here, to what I consider some of the greats of present day hypnosis, and I fully understand when you choose not to agree.

But I have yet to be presented with anything that will hold water, other than that of personal choice.

If the only holes you can find are that my definitions aren't in the dictionary, or in the other old texts you have read, or weren't part of the training that you received, then I still have no holes ;) That's why they call it innovation.

My target is the next generation, the up and comers that want an easy to understand model with no holes in it. One they can use successfully in any situation and use their knowledge of it to personalize it to each person they hypnotize.

A lot of folks spend a lot of effort to make simple things difficult in every walk of life. I am just not one of them.

Thank you again, genuinely
John



Jonathan Chase said:

I prefer to use the dictionary understanding of the word John because it's what 99% of people understand as the meaning. Perhaps you should let them know your understanding?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by docregal.com on March 2, 2010 at 9:19am

John, do you distinguish trance (a natural state where we automatically react to outside input) from a conditioned reflex?

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• Next ›
• Page