Hypnosis without trance

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Permalink Reply by Jan Krüger on February 16, 2010 at 3:58pm

The question is (without wanting to get into the argument, as you said...), what is trance... and what are signs of trance? Some sources talk about rather minimal signs of trance, such as changes in swallow reflex, blinking, breathing, pulse, skin tone etc. Did you look for these kinds of signs, and if so, did you spot them? I'm just asking because it's hard to know from which kind of idea about trance you're coming. Some people see trance pretty much everywhere, and if that's your kind of perspective, what you experienced (i.e. hypnosis without even that) would be seen as pretty special by virtually everyone here, I guess. On the other hand, many people, when they think of trance, mean that kind of eyes-closed and seemingly asleep state. If that's what your model of trance was before, then congratulations for discovering a new tool are in order, and I'll welcome you to the rather large club of people who have managed to discover the same thing (though some, like me, probably can't wield the tool of "waking hypnosis" quite as impressively).

Personally I've never created that sleep-like trance state in anyone, but I've definitely helped people experience hypnotic effects.
What did you do to achieve the phenomena you mentioned, by the way? I generally tend to use parts of John Cleesattel's expectancy-based approach (which has been presented on this forum a number of times) and the far too little-known non-awareness set (which I'll be happy to explain if anyone asks), both of which can be used without the traditional notion of trance... but even though I've found those to be pretty effective, I'm always interested in new ideas.

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Permalink Reply by Ricky Strode on February 16, 2010 at 4:48pm

Well of course you can. Might I add even without permission. Life is a trance and we are always moving from one to another and If you don't agree that is fine you are entitled to your opinion. However, I will add that if you find this to be aleast a workable theory there is alot you can do without traditional hypnosis and when combined are extremely powerful and can change lifes profoundly more than the either of them without the other. All reality is, is perception anyways.

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on February 16, 2010 at 5:03pm

As you describe, Scott, that most therapuetic effect is due to muscular relaxation, I must expand: once the body relaxes, it is possible for the mind to relax. For a person to experience what might even be a rare body relaxation opens the door for amazing progress of the mind, which of course, results in further reactions of the body, and so on...which proves your mentor's premise of the power of the imagination!

Scott Brown said:

Hi Bob,

I've always considers hypnosis as merely suggestion working through the imagination.I read a book by the late stage hypnotist Romark, who had drifted away from the idea that hypnosis was some sort of trance brought about through some sort of induction.

And as a stage hypnotist myself I know the induction although perceived by the audience as the most mystical and mysterious part of the act, is in fact the lest relevant.

With stage hypnosis its a combination of the audience expectations, the individuals that volunteer capacity to unconsciously role play and wiliness to follow along with suggestion rather than some trance induction.

In a therapy situation I believe most of the benefit is derived from deep relaxation rather than the suggestion given. Most therapist use PMR as a hypnotic induction, even thought muscular relaxation has no relationship to hypnosis, trance or suggestibility.

However what you describe Bob is partially due to body magic (physiological tricks, effects ) rather than suggestion. But because it convinced them that they where hypnotised it allowed for the amnesia to occur through suggestion.

I will finish by saying the chap that taught me hypnosis, use to say that hypnosis only existed in the realms of the imagination and as such can be what ever you decide it to be.

Warmest Regards

Scott

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on February 17, 2010 at 4:05am

Welcome to the next level Bob :)

John

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Permalink Reply by bob burns on February 17, 2010 at 5:32am

LOL. Very possibly the perfect reply! Thankyou John.
To Jan, yes I consider myself fairly experienced in hypnosis and witnessed no signs of trance whatsoever. If anything the exact opposite. By that I mean a seemingly complete lucidity including the use of humour on the part of the hypnotees.
To Kelly and Scott, in this procedure there is no relaxation of the mind or body required and Scott, on the contrary, in this procedure you do NOT convince them they are hypnotised, but rather you DO convince them they are NOT.
Can't argue with anything Ricky said since I've studied 'statuing' with complete strangers.
The guy who showed me this wa: James Tripp, feel free to look him up. By the way I had never met him before and went in very cagily. LOL. But yes, it's nice to have your modalities kicked hard now and again. I feel better for it.
I do feel that we all need to challenge our own truths every so often. No harm can ever come of that.
Yours aye,
Bob

Bob

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Permalink Reply by Jan Krüger on February 17, 2010 at 5:47am

>> To Jan, yes I consider myself fairly experienced in hypnosis and witnessed no signs of trance whatsoever. If anything the exact opposite. By that I mean a seemingly complete lucidity including the use of humour on the part of the hypnotees.

Ah, now that's more like it. I've never understood why hypnosis was supposed to be impossible if people aren't in a world of their own. It may be one effective way to do it, but I rarely believe in exclusivity.
I've heard of James's stuff before... I suppose you've just convinced me to actually take a closer look.

>> I do feel that we all need to challenge our own truths every so often. No harm can ever come of that.

Absolutely. Truths are just that: truths. They often turn out to be wrong.

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Permalink Reply by bob burns on February 17, 2010 at 5:51am

Hi Rachael,
I'm sure you and your partner know exactly what your doing, as did the extremely highly experienced hypnotists from all over the world who attended this course with me with a collective experience of some 200 years plus.
Whilst everyone in there including myself totally understood that the concept of this was nothing new (as you say: we all know that part), everyone confirmed the the 'procedure' was in fact completely new and applauded Tripp for moving our art just that tad further. Yes I've been hypnotising people with eyes open for over 30 years. This is something different. Some will instantly get that. Whilst others... simply cannot.
By the way, if I can just add that for you it may well seem a marketing gimmick, and of course if it seems that to you then quite simply... it is. But to many of us it is absolutely no such thing and we find the whole process fascinating.

Bob

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Permalink Reply by James Tripp on February 17, 2010 at 7:01am

Hi Rachel

You are right, no-trance hypnosis is not new, because hypnosis (I believe) has nothing to do with trance. But to say that my approach is a "marketing gimmick" is unfair. I have a particular model for hypnosis which is unique to me, and a particular way of teaching it. The vast majority of the distinctions within my system originate with me, from my own experience of doing hypnosis.

May I suggest that you grab my free report at:

http://www.hypnosiswithouttrance.com/

All the very best

James

Rachel Houghton said:

My partner has been teaching how to do this since 1993 (yes over 18 years) its nothing new and the "hypnosis without trance" is nothing more than a amrketing gimmick.

Any good stage hypnotist certainly any of them who have done personal training with my partner would be able to do all of these stunts and more with peoples eyes open (or closed) and without the need for any formal trance induction and indeed without any so called hypnosis being used whatsoever.

I suggest you grab the Free 80 Page Report covering all these topics and many more from:


http://magicalhypnotist.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/hypnosis-nlp-expos...

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Permalink Reply by James Tripp on February 17, 2010 at 7:03am

Bob, thank you for defending my honour in this ;-)

It was great to meet you at the weekend, and I do hope that we can catch up some time in the future.

All the very best

James

bob burns said:

Hi Rachael,
I'm sure you and your partner know exactly what your doing, as did the extremely highly experienced hypnotists from all over the world who attended this course with me with a collective experience of some 200 years plus.
Whilst everyone in there including myself totally understood that the concept of this was nothing new (as you say: we all know that part), everyone confirmed the the 'procedure' was in fact completely new and applauded Tripp for moving our art just that tad further. Yes I've been hypnotising people with eyes open for over 30 years. This is something different. Some will instantly get that. Whilst others... simply cannot.
By the way, if I can just add that for you it may well seem a marketing gimmick, and of course if it seems that to you then quite simply... it is. But to many of us it is absolutely no such thing and we find the whole process fascinating.

Bob

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on February 17, 2010 at 7:33am

This was the reason I wrote my book "The Nature of Trance", after I found out what trance really was, an how and why it works, and why we can be hypnotized in the first place. Its also why I changed the definitions of both hypnosis and trance, to fit what is real. It is also the reason that to me, years and years of experience, and/or learning hypnosis from God himself, doesn't carry much weight. Knowing how and why, is what carries weight with me.

Check out the videos on my profile here.

John

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Permalink Reply by Karena Stone on February 17, 2010 at 9:31am

Hey Bob,

Non-hypnosis hypnosis... I have experienced it myself. As a matter of fact it is one of the things that amazes my Tist since he found it. Here is an example of his work and "Waking hypnosis"

http://www.youtube.com/user/steveb0914#p/u/7/9FfKxMMeaHY

I was highly amazed myself with the effect it had on me and the power of suggestion. I am a highly suggestable person anyway. And perhaps the others are right... however traditionally I have found the "signs" of trance don't show when "Waking hypnosis" is used. I was fully concious.. fully aware.. no glazed eyes... no slow breathing or even deep relaxation. for me I was very excited and very intrigued by my actions still being controlled by suggestion without a formal induction or the such. Anyway this is a short post, but it is my experience. My tist actually did a similar thing to me only using a pen instead of a back scratcher, and a VERY heavy penny to show me the power of suggestion without being in "trance"

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Permalink Reply by JT Moore on February 17, 2010 at 9:47am

Great stuff! Thank you all, I gotta know more.

Jan, I would love to hear more about this "non-awareness set" of which you mentioned.

Just thinking; A no trance trance may be like intentless intent.

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