Hypnosis...part of us

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kevin on January 2, 2010 at 1:54pm

Mhmmm

I been out of state fr the past week and finnaly made it back home.... I left this discussin the way it is to see something...matter of fact I would like to state the fact that NO ONE responded to my discussin...

Is there a reason for this or do people see this as childs play?

Or is it that no one knows?

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Permalink Reply by Michael Haifleigh on January 2, 2010 at 4:57pm

Kevin,

I think there is an opportunity here for you to speculate on why.

Michael


Kevin KonKolics said:

Mhmmm

I been out of state fr the past week and finnaly made it back home.... I left this discussin the way it is to see something...matter of fact I would like to state the fact that NO ONE responded to my discussin...

Is there a reason for this or do people see this as childs play?

Or is it that no one knows?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on January 2, 2010 at 5:23pm

Kevin,
I traveled this same path some time ago (and of course wrote a book about the journey).

What you seek is to find the true nature of trance; to understand the hypnosis/trance mechanism so you know what the minimum requirements are to facilitate a trance state in your subject. To understand the hows and whys of hypnosis and trance and why we can be hypnotized to begin with.

You also need to understand how the mind works in reference to hypnosis and trance, and then create a model that reflects all you have learned and proven out.

When you have done all that, your model of hypnosis and trance will join the hundreds of others models out there.

The real benefit you will gain is how much better a hypnotist it will make of you personally.

Understanding the hows and whys of hypnosis is not all that valuable to the hypnosis community. It is not necessary to get the job done. What they already do works. If it doesn't work, they go read a book or take a class by someone else and use that method.

No one will accept that there is an accurately defined model of hypnosis unless they themselves made it, because of the difficulty of proving an intangible (like electricity, gravity, or magnetism) and the only evidence is the effect it has on other things.

Its just the nature of our community. Stop and think for a moment; if you have been successfully hypnotizing people since before dinosaurs roamed the earth, what would make you believe anything that someone else might come up with when you already know what works?

I think this is why you have a lack of response to this discussion. This place is much more technique based than theory based.

I hope this helps you
John

P.S. If interested, check out this discussion: http://www.hypnothoughts.com/forum/topics/how-to-hypnotize-people-part


Kevin KonKolics said:

Mhmmm
I been out of state fr the past week and finnaly made it back home.... I left this discussin the way it is to see something...matter of fact I would like to state the fact that NO ONE responded to my discussin... Is there a reason for this or do people see this as childs play? Or is it that no one knows?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ricky Strode on January 2, 2010 at 8:17pm

No, you don't have to use them. I think they just add to your credibility when doing street work. Hell, I go around, make ppl feel good for no reason at all and more. If you think you need to then do it, if not, then don't.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin on January 3, 2010 at 11:24pm

Very interesting I must say....

When you say, "community" are you saying Hypnothoughts or hypnosis? This leads me to think about the true nature of the people who get into the field of hypnosis...if everyone is so concern about technique over theory, then what real people we have here?

Hypnosis is very powerful and should not be used for people who see no good in the form...it feels like there are to many chickens are running around with their heads cut off. People are just doing what is because their guru told them so without realizing how powerful the tool really is...

Kind of reminds me of the whole argument of people obtaining college degrees vs hypnosis certifications....the idea of psychologist over a practitioner.... There are people who look into the future and there are people who only live in the present....

Frankly, what you had to say John, disguised me on why people have not been responding...as part is that you are right... I talked to my local hypnotherapist a few months back and sadly this GIRL had 0 knowledge about the process and the utility of trance... She is one of the girls who is a believer of scripts...someone who browses the Internet for the script that will work for you....she claims she needs a minimum of 5 sessions for someone to stop smoking...she is the one who uses the subconscious because "the unconscious is behind the conscious"

I was very put off with EVERYTHING she had to say...she could not indulge into intelligent conversations about change work and the process in which the brain changes....sad and disappointing...

I talk to MANY mental health professionals about change work, theory, and the process of how the brain can change in short seconds...I give many "pre-talks" and demonstrations to anyone and everyone who I talk to about mental health...its one thing to do something but its another thing to BACK IT UP....that is one aspect MANY people dont see when it comes to psychology, is the research and experiments that must take place in order to consider an idea or theory...

If someone has been playing with hypnosis and has not read or QUESTIONED how it works and the culture of trance...then that person is a fool!

John Cleesattel said:

Kevin,
I traveled this same path some time ago (and of course wrote a book about the journey).

What you seek is to find the true nature of trance; to understand the hypnosis/trance mechanism so you know what the minimum requirements are to facilitate a trance state in your subject. To understand the hows and whys of hypnosis and trance and why we can be hypnotized to begin with.

You also need to understand how the mind works in reference to hypnosis and trance, and then create a model that reflects all you have learned and proven out.

When you have done all that, your model of hypnosis and trance will join the hundreds of others models out there.

The real benefit you will gain is how much better a hypnotist it will make of you personally.

Understanding the hows and whys of hypnosis is not all that valuable to the hypnosis community. It is not necessary to get the job done. What they already do works. If it doesn't work, they go read a book or take a class by someone else and use that method.

No one will accept that there is an accurately defined model of hypnosis unless they themselves made it, because of the difficulty of proving an intangible (like electricity, gravity, or magnetism) and the only evidence is the effect it has on other things.

Its just the nature of our community. Stop and think for a moment; if you have been successfully hypnotizing people since before dinosaurs roamed the earth, what would make you believe anything that someone else might come up with when you already know what works?

I think this is why you have a lack of response to this discussion. This place is much more technique based than theory based.

I hope this helps you
John

P.S. If interested, check out this discussion: http://www.hypnothoughts.com/forum/topics/how-to-hypnotize-people-part


Kevin KonKolics said:

Mhmmm
I been out of state fr the past week and finnaly made it back home.... I left this discussin the way it is to see something...matter of fact I would like to state the fact that NO ONE responded to my discussin... Is there a reason for this or do people see this as childs play? Or is it that no one knows?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on January 4, 2010 at 10:56am

Kevin,
As I said before; it is a matter of not being able to "prove" how it all works, as much as it is not wanting to know how it all works.

After all, do you need to know how to fix a car to be able to drive one? And; when talking with other drivers, how do you prove how the engine works? And does not having the knowledge of how the car engine works make you a bad driver?

The other point is, most people don't WANT to know how it works. It doesn't matter how it works, as long as it does. Do you really understand how vitamins work in the body? Yet, have you taken them anyway?

Not everyone has a scientist's mentality, or for that matter, a scientist's curiosity. We live in a world where we use most things without understanding how they work, but we are just secure in the knowledge that they do work.

Think about your own understanding of the devices you use, as you use them. Can you explain in detail how a microwave works, or a cell phone, or your computer. Can the bus driver fix the bus? A switchboard operator fix the switchboard? Can a surgeon fix the heart monitor? or the laser he is using for a scalpel?

I, for one, DID need to know how it works. As a systems analyst, I had a need to have a good grasp on the entire hypnosis/trance mechanism in order to optimize it, and then be able to use my understanding to extrapolate with it.

The result was successfully being able to troubleshoot and correct it when people had difficulty achieving a purposeful trance. People with problems experiencing purposeful trance now seek me out and I show them how. Several on this site have done so already. I am able to do instant inductions without touching people or yelling at them; the value being that it can then be applied (and has been) while trancing over the internet.

Do I now understand how it all works? Other than "the proof being in the pudding", my model of hypnosis and trance is just one of the hundreds out there. The difference to me, is what I can do now because of my understanding of it, that I couldn't do before that understooding.

The bottom line to me is: that what we call trance, is a naturally occurring phenomenon in humans. It is how we naturally cope with the inability of the analytical mind to do more than one thing at a time. Hypnosis simply takes advantage of the fact this phenomenon can be manipulated by outside sources.

John


Kevin KonKolics said:

Very interesting I must say....
When you say, "community" are you saying Hypnothoughts or hypnosis? This leads me to think about the true nature of the people who get into the field of hypnosis...if everyone is so concern about technique over theory, then what real people we have here? Hypnosis is very powerful and should not be used for people who see no good in the form...it feels like there are to many chickens are running around with their heads cut off. People are just doing what is because their guru told them so without realizing how powerful the tool really is... Kind of reminds me of the whole argument of people obtaining college degrees vs hypnosis certifications....the idea of psychologist over a practitioner.... There are people who look into the future and there are people who only live in the present....

Frankly, what you had to say John, disguised me on why people have not been responding...as part is that you are right... I talked to my local hypnotherapist a few months back and sadly this GIRL had 0 knowledge about the process and the utility of trance... She is one of the girls who is a believer of scripts...someone who browses the Internet for the script that will work for you....she claims she needs a minimum of 5 sessions for someone to stop smoking...she is the one who uses the subconscious because "the unconscious is behind the conscious"

I was very put off with EVERYTHING she had to say...she could not indulge into intelligent conversations about change work and the process in which the brain changes....sad and disappointing...

I talk to MANY mental health professionals about change work, theory, and the process of how the brain can change in short seconds...I give many "pre-talks" and demonstrations to anyone and everyone who I talk to about mental health...its one thing to do something but its another thing to BACK IT UP....that is one aspect MANY people dont see when it comes to psychology, is the research and experiments that must take place in order to consider an idea or theory...

If someone has been playing with hypnosis and has not read or QUESTIONED how it works and the culture of trance...then that person is a fool!

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Permalink Reply by Kevin on January 4, 2010 at 2:11pm

John, thanks for your thoughts about the subject matter, I knew I was not the only one...


Yes I do agree with the idea that you do not need to know how something works to use the item....a buss driver probably does not know how to fix the bus...

This is the notion in which NLP was first created, the whole idea about modeling. If someone can do something, then I can do it too, all I have to do is follow them! I dont care why it works, I just want to do it!

Yes yes, Hypnosis is the same idea.... a lot of people dont know how it works only that it DOES work...now one of my first gurus in Hypnosis use to say "Dont wright down my examples, just understand the theory then you can make your own examples". I took that to heart and that is where I started to explore outside the realm of gurus and people's model of hypnosis and started to explore theory.

From there....once you understand how it works then you hold unlimited power...the sad part is that people do not see this and are by passing so much!! Once you do see the theory and the mechanics then you can start to play with them and start to develop new ideas and progress the science of hypnosis and the way the brain works...every so often someone comes around and moves the science...we call this progress!!

Remember when you are doing hypnosis based on mechanics only, then you are trapped on how you can use it...no room to expand, no room to move forward...just do what you have been told...

Please John, you have very much intrigued me with your thinking and your progress already... Can you point me in the direction of your book and your model. Its a small world, I too been studying "Business System Annalist" for the past 3 years but recently moved into the Clinical-Psychology field...haha....

You can say I went from Computer Technology to Brain Technology ;)

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Permalink Reply by Ricky Strode on January 4, 2010 at 2:24pm

Funny, I went from computer science to psychology. I thought of the ideal of reprogramming people to be much more fun, than writing thousands of lines of codes. Most ppl don't like that way of saying it, but thats pretty much what it is. Nice to see some fellow techies on here.

Kevin KonKolics said:

John, thanks for your thoughts about the subject matter, I knew I was not the only one...


Yes I do agree with the idea that you do not need to know how something works to use the item....a buss driver probably does not know how to fix the bus...

This is the notion in which NLP was first created, the whole idea about modeling. If someone can do something, then I can do it too, all I have to do is follow them! I dont care why it works, I just want to do it!

Yes yes, Hypnosis is the same idea.... a lot of people dont know how it works only that it DOES work...now one of my first gurus in Hypnosis use to say "Dont wright down my examples, just understand the theory then you can make your own examples". I took that to heart and that is where I started to explore outside the realm of gurus and people's model of hypnosis and started to explore theory.

From there....once you understand how it works then you hold unlimited power...the sad part is that people do not see this and are by passing so much!! Once you do see the theory and the mechanics then you can start to play with them and start to develop new ideas and progress the science of hypnosis and the way the brain works...every so often someone comes around and moves the science...we call this progress!!

Remember when you are doing hypnosis based on mechanics only, then you are trapped on how you can use it...no room to expand, no room to move forward...just do what you have been told...

Please John, you have very much intrigued me with your thinking and your progress already... Can you point me in the direction of your book and your model. Its a small world, I too been studying "Business System Annalist" for the past 3 years but recently moved into the Clinical-Psychology field...haha....

You can say I went from Computer Technology to Brain Technology ;)

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Permalink Reply by Ricky Strode on January 4, 2010 at 2:28pm

Oh and the people that rely on scripts, just look at it this way we could make alot of money off of them selling them scripts. Atleast thats the way I see it. The things ppl don't want to learn is were the ppl, like me come in and make a market out of it and thats a pretty big market.

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