Is anyone here at HT normal?

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on July 27, 2010 at 7:55am

Hey Roger-

Normal is just another way to say average -- Who the heck wants to be average?

Michael E.
PS - Your link is not working...

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Permalink Reply by Ron Franks on July 27, 2010 at 8:14am

Good question Roger, and ....

by any definition we might choose to accept for "normal" my answer is likely to be the same....NO!

Your link did work for me here in the USA.

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Permalink Reply by James Malone on July 27, 2010 at 8:19am

Roger, I seem to recall some years back the late Robert Anton Wilson got the Skeptical Inquirer people all in a tizzy when he posted a million dollar challenge if anyone could produce evidence of a normal person! Jim

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Permalink Reply by tony cott on July 27, 2010 at 8:21am

my kids would say "dad is far from normal" lol..and the link did work here in Calif.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on July 27, 2010 at 8:32am

Hey - I am in the USA and the link wasn't working this morning-
Here is the news item:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66Q4BJ20100727?feedType=RSS&a...(News+/+US+/+Health+News)&utm_content=Google+Reader


Mental health experts ask: Will anyone be normal?

LONDON | Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:28am EDT
(Reuters) - An updated edition of a mental health bible for doctors may include diagnoses for "disorders" such as toddler tantrums and binge eating, experts say, and could mean that soon no-one will be classed as normal.

Leading mental health experts gave a briefing on Tuesday to warn that a new edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), which is being revised now for publication in 2013, could devalue the seriousness of mental illness and label almost everyone as having some kind of disorder.

Citing examples of new additions like "mild anxiety depression," "psychosis risk syndrome," and "temper dysregulation disorder," they said many people previously seen as perfectly healthy could in future be told they are ill.

"It's leaking into normality. It is shrinking the pool of what is normal to a puddle," said Til Wykes of the Institute of Psychiatry at Kings College London.

The DSM is published by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) and contains descriptions, symptoms, and other criteria for diagnosing mental disorders. It is seen as the global diagnostic bible for the field of mental health medicine.

The criteria are designed to provide clear definitions for professionals who treat patients with mental disorders, and for researchers and pharmaceutical drug companies seeking to develop new ways of treating them.

Wykes and colleagues Felicity Callard, also of Kings' Institute of Psychiatry, and Nick Craddock of Cardiff University's department of psychological medicine and neurology, said many in the psychiatric community are worried that the further the guidelines are expanded, the more likely it will become that nobody will be classed as normal any more.

"Technically, with the classification of so many new disorders, we will all have disorders," they said in a joint statement. "This may lead to the belief that many more of us 'need' drugs to treat our 'conditions' -- (and) many of these drugs will have unpleasant or dangerous side effects."

The scientists said "psychosis risk syndrome" diagnosis was particularly worrying, since it could falsely label young people who may only have a small risk of developing an illness.

"It's a bit like telling 10 people with a common cold that they are "at risk for pneumonia syndrome" when only one is likely to get the disorder," Wykes told the briefing.

The American Psychiatric Association did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The scientists gave examples from the previous revision to the DSM, which was called DSM 4 and included broader diagnoses and categories for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), autism and childhood bipolar disorders.

This, they said, had "contributed to three false epidemics" of these conditions, particularly in the United States.

"During the last decade, how many doctors were harangued by worried parents into giving drugs like Ritalin to children who didn't really need it?," their statement asked.

Millions of people across the world, many of them children, take ADHD drugs including Novartis' Ritalin, which is known generically as methylphenidate, and similar drugs such as Shire Plc's Adderall and Vyvanse. In the United States alone, sales of these drugs was about $4.8 billion in 2008.

Wykes and Callard published a comment in The Journal of Mental Health expressing their concern about the upcoming DSM revision and highlighting another 10 or more papers in the same journal from other scientists who were also worried. DSM 5 is due to be published in May 2013.

(Editing by Peter Graff)



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Michael Ellner said:

Hey Roger-

Normal is just another way to say average -- Who the heck wants to be average?

Michael E.
PS - Your link is not working...

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on July 27, 2010 at 8:54am

Wasn't that a favourite line of Erickson's? 'What is nor-mal?'

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Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on July 27, 2010 at 9:43am

Hi Michael - the link worked for me- it is a Reuters article - here is the title: Mental health experts ask: Will anyone be normal?

Average is boring

Michael Ellner said:

Hey Roger-

Normal is just another way to say average -- Who the heck wants to be average?

Michael E.
PS - Your link is not working...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Walt Potter on July 27, 2010 at 11:35am

All,

Sadly average elements may not exist.

Consider {1,2}. The average of the elements in this set is 1.5.

The number 1.5 is not a member of the set {1,2}.

I have two nails on my workbench, one is 1 inch long, the other is 2 inches long. I have no nails on my workbench that are 1.5 inches long.

Why such a sad workbench? I have two boys......

Walt

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on July 27, 2010 at 12:22pm

lol Walt.

I suspect I may have a disorder...of my much too sparse underwear drawer! The only cure is a glass of merlot, which leads to my drinking disorder. Refraining from that cure, I suppose I could go shopping and feed that particular disorder. Or, I may just go underwearless, which promotes a sense-of-freedom disorder, highly discouraged by most psychiatrists.

Walt Potter said:

All,

Sadly average elements may not exist.

Consider {1,2}. The average of the elements in this set is 1.5.

The number 1.5 is not a member of the set {1,2}.

I have two nails on my workbench, one is 1 inch long, the other is 2 inches long. I have no nails on my workbench that are 1.5 inches long.

Why such a sad workbench? I have two boys......

Walt

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Permalink Reply by Chris Witherspoon on July 27, 2010 at 1:16pm

It is my firm belief that all of us are a bit crazy, some of us are just handling it better than others.

Chris

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Permalink Reply by Samantha Nohs Paitakis on July 27, 2010 at 3:37pm

The agenda of creating this terminology for the sake of further harming individuals by controlling them and their health,... just to further the security of allopathic treatment and medicines is unbelievable! Everyone has their own chemistry and multidimensional makeup. I do know that today there are many people who are turning to more wholesome mind/body natural methods to experience balanced well-being. This is why hypnosis is so important to the world... as well as the practitioners who serve to assist people in their sojourn towards a healthy balance.

I have faith that what is healthy and natural will always prevail in good for all!

~Samantha

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Permalink Reply by Walt Potter on July 27, 2010 at 6:39pm

Great big smiles here! LOL! Fun!

It's good to laugh just before I go to sleep!

Freedom!

Thanks Kelly!

Kelley Woods said:

lol Walt.
I suspect I may have a disorder...of my much too sparse underwear drawer! The only cure is a glass of merlot, which leads to my drinking disorder. Refraining from that cure, I suppose I could go shopping and feed that particular disorder. Or, I may just go underwearless, which promotes a sense-of-freedom disorder, highly discouraged by most psychiatrists.
Walt Potter said:

All,

Sadly average elements may not exist.

Consider {1,2}. The average of the elements in this set is 1.5.

The number 1.5 is not a member of the set {1,2}.

I have two nails on my workbench, one is 1 inch long, the other is 2 inches long. I have no nails on my workbench that are 1.5 inches long.

Why such a sad workbench? I have two boys......

Walt

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