Is Hypnosis the most mocked vocation?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on December 29, 2009 at 5:35pm

Hmm...I'm surprised no one has listed used car salesmen, politicians, or televangelists.

As a former theater major, however, I have no room to talk. :)

Kathleen Hanover
"The Pretty Goodest Public Relations, 
Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet"

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on December 29, 2009 at 7:39pm

I am assuming the definition of "mock" as used here is: to treat with contempt or ridicule, according to Miriam Webster Dictionary.

I prefer to think of it in one of its other meanings: "to imitate closely", in which case I instantly think of that wonderful rendition of "Mockingbird" performed by Jim Carey and Jeff Daniels. And that makes me feel good.


No erasies!

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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on December 29, 2009 at 9:00pm

Saul-

MANY medical schools teach hypnosis. In fact, in the world of outcome based treatment it is the buzz. They just call it meditation. Hypnosis=meditation, same thing. Frankly I could care less what they call it, but John Kabot-Zinn, Steven Hays, Marsha Linnehan, Francis Shapiro, are AL the LEADERS in what is called the "third wave of psychiatry" ALL of them are currently the best selling authors in mental health, all of them are research and university based, and ALL of them teach hypnosis- under various names. Hypnosis is NOT rejected by the medical community. They just reject those they don't think qualified to do i (weather that judgement is fair or ot a an entirely different debate).

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on December 29, 2009 at 9:10pm

Public, Personal and Professional Images --

If you think about recent news items it seems to me that generally speaking:

Nurses who screw up tend to be bad apples - Nurse-midwifes who screw up tend to be dangerous. Accountants who screw up tend to be bad apples - Lawyers who screw up tend to be those Bastards! Engineers who screw up tend to be bad apples - Protologists who screw up are a laughing stock. Librarians who screw up tend to be bad apples - Teachers/Clergy who screw up tend to be perverts. High End Prostitutes who screw up become authors and consultants - Low end Prostitutes who screw up are Ho's for life. Stage Hypnotists who screw up are mostly viewed as bad apples - Clinical Hypnotherapists who screw up give all of us a bad name.

Just thinking out loud,,,

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Permalink Reply by Graham Old on December 29, 2009 at 11:40pm

I think I'd want to add Preachers and Social Workers to the list. However, I echo most of what Saul's written.

The fact that few of us have been mocked to our faces is hardly a surprise. Yet, that doesn't mean that Hypnosis and Hypnotists as a whole aren't viewed less than seriously.

After all, isn't this the reason that so many of us have to spend so much time reassuring our clients that we're not going to humiliate them or turn them into zombies?

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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on December 30, 2009 at 6:35am

Richard,

Not true. Almost NO medical schools "teach" hypnosis! A statistically insignificant handful of medical schools might expose their students to a brief lecture or two on the subject, but that's about IT.
Perhaps the ONLY medical school in the country that actually "TEACHES" it is the "Arizona Center for Integrative Medicine" at the University of Arizona College of Medicine under the auspices of Dr. Steve Gurgevich. Dr. G is the right hand man of Dr. Andrew Weil, and his Center for Integrative Medicine is absolutely UNIQUE in this aspect.
As it so happens, the very first testimonial for my book is from Dr. Gurgevich (he recommends it to all his medical students), and he even did me the honor of linking my website to his- so you can see for yourself.

As for equating utilizing "meditation" with teaching hypnotherapy- c'mon, let's get real! Suggesting to one's patients that they learn to "relax" by passively meditating is a FAR cry from a physician ACTIVELY helping them with hypnoTHERAPY!
In point of fact, learning hypnosis is NOT a part of a physician's (or psychologist's) education- not by a long shot.
My own daughter received her M.D. in 2001 at the progressive and prestigious University of Rotterdam (in Holland), and in all her years of study only had a SINGLE ONE-HOUR lecture about hypnosis!

Are there M.D.s who go beyond their study to learn something about the subject? SURE there are! But like I said before, these comprise an infinitesimally tiny handful when compared to the TOTAL number of physicians!

One more thing: what I've been saying about the harm caused to hypnotism's image by STAGE hypnosis is NOT meant to be "unkind", but is the result of thirteen years of fanatical research. Ask yourself what POSSIBLE motivation could I have for saying this?! Why should I otherwise give a rat's ass about stage hypnotists and their acts? What does that have to do with ME for God's sake?!

Before I retired from practice, the ONLY "inconvenience" I suffered as a result of my patients being filled with harmful misconceptions was the need (as Graham Old also reported) to reassure them ALL that they wouldn't be under my "Power" or be compelled to obey my "commands". This is something that EVERY hypnotherapist must do because people the world over are anxious about "giving up control" to a hypnotist.
So try asking yourself WHY I have such disdain for the practice of stage hypnosis- is it because I suddenly had an urge to spend thirteen years researching and writing a book that, among many OTHER things, reveals the great harm such public exhibitions have always done to hypnotism's IMAGE, and thought this was a brilliant plan to earn perhaps a few pennies an hour in subsequent royalties IF it sells THOUSANDS of copies?
Or could it perhaps be because I wished to improve mankind's terribly skewed understanding of this remarkable phenomenon, and sincerely believe that as long as hypnosis is crassly exploited for "entertainment", it will NEVER be accepted by the majority of serious health care professionals as an aid to HEALING ?

Saul

www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com






Richard Nongard - HypnosisGurus.com said:

Saul-
MANY medical schools teach hypnosis. In fact, in the world of outcome based treatment it is the buzz. They just call it meditation. Hypnosis=meditation, same thing. Frankly I could care less what they call it, but John Kabot-Zinn, Steven Hays, Marsha Linnehan, Francis Shapiro, are AL the LEADERS in what is called the "third wave of psychiatry" ALL of them are currently the best selling authors in mental health, all of them are research and university based, and ALL of them teach hypnosis- under various names. Hypnosis is NOT rejected by the medical community. They just reject those they don't think qualified to do i (weather that judgement is fair or ot a an entirely different debate).

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on December 30, 2009 at 7:13am

I think the thread conclusively shows the old adage we all know and love.......

What you're thinking about ... You're being about !

Hugh Cole
Joyous New Year to everyone

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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on December 30, 2009 at 7:59am

Graham,

Unfortunately (but hardly surprisingly), those who make their LIVING either by doing, or teaching, STAGE hypnosis will NEVER admit that there's even a remote possibility that what they're also doing is propagating all of these negative stereotypes about the phenomenon, and thereby sullying its image in the eyes of the public AND for health care professionals.

Denial, as the old adage we all know and love goes, is NOT a river in Egypt...; - )

Saul

www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com




Graham Old said:

I think I'd want to add Preachers and Social Workers to the list. However, I echo most of what Saul's written.

The fact that few of us have been mocked to our faces is hardly a surprise. Yet, that doesn't mean that Hypnosis and Hypnotists as a whole aren't viewed less than seriously.

After all, isn't this the reason that so many of us have to spend so much time reassuring our clients that we're not going to humiliate them or turn them into zombies?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Pete & Lorraine on December 30, 2009 at 8:11am

Hello chaps
I think at the end of the day Hypnosis is going in the right direction, yeah there is a way to go, but it is getting there!
We had a similar debate on a forum here in the UK and someone pointed out that stage hypnosis was ruining the therapy side, it was also pointed out that if someone mentioned that old "turned into a chicken" stuff all you need to say is "so you know hypnosis works"!
Remember the people who go on stage VOLUNTEER to be mocked or they wouldn't be there, so it is a choice, they have given permission to be hypnotised for the purpose of entertainment, this can also be pointed out to a prospective client, so they have seen proof that it works. you could add "So imagine how it could help with your issue". I have worked with people who were worried about me taking control and were pleasantly surprised how good it felt,(not me taking control ;-) ) and pleased with the overall results at the end of our work. Because of the hypno-band we are getting a lot of enquiries from people who would never normally think of using hypnosis for weight loss, having tried everything else, and unable to afford the actual gastric band. So despite it's history, the perception of hypnosis is definitely changing for the better, add to that more and more people are looking for courses in hypnosis, more doctors are starting to recommend us. I have noticed a change taking place in the few short years of being a therapist. Paul mc Kenna was a stage hypnotist and is fast becoming well known and respected for the therapy side, this is also showing there are positive benefits to hypnosis and of course showing the difference to stage work.

Pete

Saul Rosenfeld said:

Richard,
Not true. Almost NO medical schools "teach" hypnosis! A statistically insignificant handful of medical schools might expose their students to a brief lecture or two on the subject, but that's about IT. Perhaps the ONLY medical school in the country that actually "TEACHES" it is the "Arizona Center for Integrative Medicine" at the University of Arizona College of Medicine under the auspices of Dr. Steve Gurgevich. Dr. G is the right hand man of Dr. Andrew Weil, and his Center for Integrative Medicine is absolutely UNIQUE in this aspect.
As it so happens, the very first testimonial for my book is from Dr. Gurgevich (he recommends it to all his medical students), and he even did me the honor of linking my website to his- so you can see for yourself.

As for equating utilizing "meditation" with teaching hypnotherapy- c'mon, let's get real! Suggesting to one's patients that they learn to "relax" by passively meditating is a FAR cry from a physician ACTIVELY helping them with hypnoTHERAPY!
In point of fact, learning hypnosis is NOT a part of a physician's (or psychologist's) education- not by a long shot.
My own daughter received her M.D. in 2001 at the progressive and prestigious University of Rotterdam (in Holland), and in all her years of study only had a SINGLE ONE-HOUR lecture about hypnosis!

Are there M.D.s who go beyond their study to learn something about the subject? SURE there are! But like I said before, these comprise an infinitesimally tiny handful when compared to the TOTAL number of physicians!

One more thing: what I've been saying about the harm caused to hypnotism's image by STAGE hypnosis is NOT meant to be "unkind", but is the result of thirteen years of fanatical research. Ask yourself what POSSIBLE motivation could I have for saying this?! Why should I otherwise give a rat's ass about stage hypnotists and their acts? What does that have to do with ME for God's sake?!

Before I retired from practice, the ONLY "inconvenience" I suffered as a result of my patients being filled with harmful misconceptions was the need (as Graham Old also reported) to reassure them ALL that they wouldn't be under my "Power" or be compelled to obey my "commands". This is something that EVERY hypnotherapist must do because people the world over are anxious about "giving up control" to a hypnotist.
So try asking yourself WHY I have such disdain for the practice of stage hypnosis- is it because I suddenly had an urge to spend thirteen years researching and writing a book that, among many OTHER things, reveals the great harm such public exhibitions have always done to hypnotism's IMAGE, and thought this was a brilliant plan to earn perhaps a few pennies an hour in subsequent royalties IF it sells THOUSANDS of copies?
Or could it perhaps be because I wished to improve mankind's terribly skewed understanding of this remarkable phenomenon, and sincerely believe that as long as hypnosis is crassly exploited for "entertainment", it will NEVER be accepted by the majority of serious health care professionals as an aid to HEALING ?

Saul

www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com






Richard Nongard - HypnosisGurus.com said:

Saul-
MANY medical schools teach hypnosis. In fact, in the world of outcome based treatment it is the buzz. They just call it meditation. Hypnosis=meditation, same thing. Frankly I could care less what they call it, but John Kabot-Zinn, Steven Hays, Marsha Linnehan, Francis Shapiro, are AL the LEADERS in what is called the "third wave of psychiatry" ALL of them are currently the best selling authors in mental health, all of them are research and university based, and ALL of them teach hypnosis- under various names. Hypnosis is NOT rejected by the medical community. They just reject those they don't think qualified to do i (weather that judgement is fair or ot a an entirely different debate).

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on December 30, 2009 at 8:11am

Richard Nongard - HypnosisGurus.com said:

Saul-

MANY medical schools teach hypnosis. In fact, in the world of outcome based treatment it is the buzz. They just call it meditation. Hypnosis=meditation, same thing. Frankly I could care less what they call it, but John Kabot-Zinn, Steven Hays, Marsha Linnehan, Francis Shapiro, are AL the LEADERS in what is called the "third wave of psychiatry" ALL of them are currently the best selling authors in mental health, all of them are research and university based, and ALL of them teach hypnosis- under various names. Hypnosis is NOT rejected by the medical community. They just reject those they don't think qualified to do i (weather that judgement is fair or ot a an entirely different debate).

That all seams very clear Richard.
and I agree.
Hypnosis is being taught and used left, right and centre,
in all sorts of institutions, but not neccesarilly,
under the brand name 'Hypnosis'


I am sure however, that
there is scope for anyone who wants to,
to misunderstand what you wrote,
Read what they thought you said,
and argue with that point.
.

We see things through the lens filters we happen to be wearing,
and some people habitually wear negative filters.

I have just been watching Mary Poppins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1dkTrNH92Y

Love and hugs,

Fable

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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on December 30, 2009 at 9:03am

Greetings Pete,

1. yes, there is indeed "a way to go", and at the present rate it'll most likely take ANOTHER hundred years before it becomes accepted and utilized by the majority of clinicians instead of just a relative handful of the ultra-progressive ones;

2. those people who volunteer to be mocked on stage are NOT the ones I'm talking about- it's the AUDIENCE that goes away filled with misconceptions about hypnosis after witnessing these exhibitions. It's the AUDIENCE who believes that the stage hypnotist is CONTROLLING his subjects, and "making" them comply with his commands- EVEN those that make them look ridiculous and/or foolish, and would be immediately rejected by any "normal" person in their "right minds".

3. do you have access to empirical statistics proving that "the perception of hypnosis is definitely changing for the better", or is this just a "seat of the pants" feeling because nowadays it's in the news more often? The reason I'm asking is because interest in hypnosis has ALWAYS been a "cyclical" affair- usually every 20 years or so. Suddenly there appear reams of articles extolling its virtues for a wide range of ailments, and such articles usually trumpet this news as if it has SUDDENLY been "discovered" that "such and such an ailment can be "miraculously" healed with hypnosis!"
After a few years however, it invariably fades away, and hypnosis once again becomes relegated to the relatively few diehards who continue to use it DESPITE its being abandoned by the vast majority of mainstream health care professionals.

Perhaps THIS time things will be more positive. I certainly HOPE so; and the added stimulus of all the publicity surrounding the current health care crisis might well be a contributing factor this time around.
But if you consider the vast POTENTIAL that hypnotherapy has ALWAYS had, it boggles my mind that so many people on this forum continue to DENY that two centuries of LOST potential has NOTHING to do with the fact that it has always suffered from a terribly negative IMAGE as a result of widespread misuse and cheap exploitation by successive generations of stage hypnotists.

We see things through the lens filters we happen to be wearing.
And some people habitually wear negative filters as soon as it directly impacts THEIR livelihood.

Saul

www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com




Peter Bateman & Lorraine Gleeson said:

Hello chaps
I think at the end of the day Hypnosis is going in the right direction, yeah there is a way to go, but it is getting there! We had a similar debate on a forum here in the UK and someone pointed out that stage hypnosis was ruining the therapy side, it was also pointed out that if someone mentioned that old "turned into a chicken" stuff all you need to say is "so you know hypnosis works"! Remember the people who go on stage VOLUNTEER to be mocked or they wouldn't be there, so it is a choice, they have given permission to be hypnotised for the purpose of entertainment, this can also be pointed out to a prospective client, so they have seen proof that it works. you could add "So imagine how it could help with your issue". I have worked with people who were worried about me taking control and were pleasantly surprised how good it felt,(not me taking control ;-) ) and pleased with the overall results at the end of our work. Because of the hypno-band we are getting a lot of enquiries from people who would never normally think of using hypnosis for weight loss, having tried everything else, and unable to afford the actual gastric band. So despite it's history, the perception of hypnosis is definitely changing for the better, add to that more and more people are looking for courses in hypnosis, more doctors are starting to recommend us. I have noticed a change taking place in the few short years of being a therapist. Paul mc Kenna was a stage hypnotist and is fast becoming well known and respected for the therapy side, this is also showing there are positive benefits to hypnosis and of course showing the difference to stage work.
Pete

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Permalink Reply by Robert S on December 30, 2009 at 9:37am

I was at a bikerbar I regularly visit - and had a recent encounter with a scoffer.

Whilst siting with my GF at the bar, a rather immature and abrasive guy axed me what I do for living, he axed in an attempt to impress (her) me with his own accomplishments whilst seeking to demean mine.

I claimed I was a Hypnotist - he didn't quite know what to do with this answer because he couldn't get traction for his impressive comparitive comback.- mulled around with it a bit.

So, he proceded with the tired and predictable taunt: "Go ahead hypnotize me now! ... I'll bet you cant hypnotize me because I'm too smart! ! my mind is too strong! hypnosis is all F***n bulls***! etc.

(My GF just offered a coy and knowing smile ...)

So, I control the frame and said something like: "Your right!, you do seem like you have a strong mind, and I dont want you to go into trance ... right now.. you know.. and as you think about it... I wonder.. what do you think it would be like to.. be in a trance now .. now, would you notice any amnesia... or forget about amnesia.. again remember that I dont want you to go into trance ... however.. I wonder ... how do you know ... your not in a trance right now... how can you even notice your in a trance now.. with that amnesia.. .. thats right...


};>

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