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Is it possible to hypnotize someone without their knowledge or consent?
Is it possible to hypnotize someone without their knowledge or consent? If so, under what conditions?
And can someone be compelled to do something they find moraly objectionable?
I was taught these things are impossible, but sometimes I wonder...
And can someone be compelled to do something they find moraly objectionable?
I was taught these things are impossible, but sometimes I wonder...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Thomas on -
Hey
Good question, and one which there is still a lot of debate about.
Anthony Jacquin says yes, you can, easily, and goes into this in really great detail at his interview here:
http://keystothemind.blogspot.com/2008/04/hypnosis-interviews.html
(The interview is near the bottom of the page)
Hope this is useful
Nathan
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Permalink Reply by Michael Zappellini on -
Hi Gloria,
it sounds like a rhetorical question, but anyway the answer is yes, we are hypnotized everyday by media,clergy,doctors and etc.etc. and we don't realise that. You don't need to have your eyes closed in a recliner to be in hypnosis, you can be covertly hypnotized, you are a hypnotist think about what parameters are necessary to create hypnosis and you are set. Now I don't personally think is ethical to do that to people
without their consent just because you know how, hypnosis is a magnificent tool to resolve most of the issues
a mind can develop and it should be used responsibly. Remember Hyppocrates don't do harm.
my 2 cents
Michael
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Permalink Reply by Skeitel on -
Yes. You can for example go from normal conversation to NLP patterns to "suggestibility tests" and then directly into waking hypnosis. Once there you can progressively take over increasing the strenght of suggestions going to the milder ones and easily accepted to the most difficult ones with which the subject would not normally comply to. To the untrained person it would sound like normal conversation, if a bit grammatically incorrect at times.
I believe it takes a very well-versed hypnotist to do but it is possible if you have the attention of the potentail hypnotee and the environment is on your side (no noise, no flashing or annoying lights, no friends' distractions, no time limit...)
Personally I have only taken it to the pre-strong suggestions level coming from the seduction side of things. I know it works because I have seen the signs of trance while I talked, partial amnesia after the event, and the feeling by the hypnotee of "not knowing how I got here/do this/feel that"
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Permalink Reply by Eric G. Schneider on -
Happens all the time....Marketing companies get paid lots to create stuff that will by pass our better judgement. Just look at the economy.
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Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig - HypnosisAustin on -
There's a lengthy and rather heated discussion of this question in this thread:
http://www.hypnothoughts.com/forum/topics/sacred-cow-people-can-not-be
Enjoy,
James
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Permalink Reply by Michael Johnson on -
YES!
If we were to consider that even a person adamantly apposed to being hypnotized could be maneuvered into a simple state of confusion using simple physiological methods, the answer would and is - YES!
Take the two simple videos with Derren Brown for example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_-QcW4Q4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vz_YTNLn6w
I think even in this example of confusion the answer is self evident.
Michael
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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on -
Hi Gloria, et al,
As James indicated we are in the process of discussing this subject and every one is invited to join us-
http://www.hypnothoughts.com/forum/topics/sacred-cow-people-can-not-be
FYI -- I believe that most hypnosis takes place outside of our offices and/or off-stage
The link below is to a recent podcast on hypnosis in the social realm -- where people are hypnotized without their knowledge or consent every day...
Warmest regards,
ME
http://www.aidsisover.com/audio/BeautifulTruth090111.mp3
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Permalink Reply by Bruce Taylor on -
I would say yes as we are hypnotised many times a day without even realizing it.
I use to live in Phoenix and work for a company that had a Branch Manager that would zone out in meetings. He was very hypnotizable and would go into and out of trance during meetings. I would think it was very distracting to some of us but I think that is proof that it could happen even though it was unintentional.
Bruce Taylor CHT
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Permalink Reply by Bob Brenner on -
The simple truth about hypnosis is that it is nothing more then mental focus. The more focused a person becomes the greater their ability to accept suggestion. When we talk about deepening a person all we are really talking about is helping them to narrow their scope of awareness. This happens naturally in conversations. Someone is talking to you and you focus on their words blocking out the other possible distractions. The same thing happens when reading or watching TV. When this happens you are in fact in a state of hypnosis without your realizing it.
Bob Brenner
www.UnlockingMinds.com
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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on
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Everyone is welcome to join us and share their opinions about the second part of this discussion: Can being hypnotized without your knowledge or consent be harmful?
http://www.hypnothoughts.com/forum/topics/sacred-cow-people-can-not-be
As hypnosis practitioners we generally practice "SAFE" hypnosis and our clients are paying to be hypnotized -- The discussion I started asks hypnosis practitioners to consider a natural form of generally unrecognized hypnosis that is happening outside of our practices.
Example: A patient gets very disturbing news from a doctor - the patient unknowingly slips into a trance and becomes hyper-suggestible. The person gets lost in his or her thoughts and is focusing on their fears and concerns-- At this point the patient is not really consciously listening to the doctor...
Now imagine that instead of getting the patient's attention before advising the patient of "POSSIBLE" side effects and explaining that not every one gets them and they may not experience any "unwanted" effects -- the doctor just rambles on -- warning the patient about All of the possible side effects in a way that suggests-- they will experience all of them
As hypnosis experts do you believe that the person was hypnotized? Do you believe the person is likely to experience all or most of the side effects?
Michael E.
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Permalink Reply by John Kelly on -
I wrote this article originally on Sacred Cows, the Unconscious
A few years ago I came across a book called Apprentices of Wonder: Inside the Neural Network Revolution by William F. Allman ( which was about neural nets because at the time instead of having the mind model the computer they were wondering if the computer could model the mind). so they had to create multi-layered nets...that could emulate solving for Unknowns by having a input, a hidden net in the middle to process, and a output net....something pretty close to a schema in my mind. Well what was interesting not only multi-layers were necessary for learning Artificial intelligence but there were different kinds of hidden nets.( I am reminded of algebra where one has to use and unknowns to solve for another unknown hehehehe,)
The first kind where competitive nets...the system competes for the right to dominate in its solution...very slow process like mixing a deck of cards and trying by trial and error to come up with the right suits...The Second kind were cooperative nets...like the Easter egg hunt one is dependent on and outside sources for the solution....definitely faster.....(however remember that wild dogs pack which are very social are competing for food but they are considered one of the most efficient systems....now let's take corporations hehheheh to be truely a cooperative net one has to be self transcendant and not self serving) The third kind Backward propagating systems in one starts with the end in mind and works backward and include mistakes as part of aligning the adjusting feedback.
If I may use a metaphor here, I was thinking that; the single cell to the reptilian brain the primitive part of the brain seems to be competitive in its solution in nature (hindbrain). The Coorperative brain or the Mammalian brain or mid brain would be cooperative because of the demands of a long gestation period in mammalian development (a the strategy here that might be used is Robert Axelrod cooperative strategies built on tit for tat with forgiveness upfront for teaching computer long term cooperative relationships). Then last but not least the Cerebral cortext which has the capacity for Future planning requires some aspect of a Backward propagation this is the area of the brain that alchoolics usually destroy as part of their drinking habit and can't process consequences to their behaviors. As you may have noticed I have used The Triarchic Mind by Robert Sternberg. I am also inclined to think that the cell has its own brain which at the cell membrane and not the genes this idea was proposed by Bruce Lipton Ph.D.
It seems like the Brain has different evolutionary stacked layers of networks which process differently ...and this metaphor seems useful to talk about activated neuro-density networks and their different functions evolutionarily. There seems also to be some studies on the embryonic development of the Amydala in pregnant women....this was reported by Dr Bruce Lipton Ph.D basically he was saying that the if a child was gestating in a chaotic environment that later the amygdala gets triggered would go towards more primitive reflexes of the hind brain while children gestating in peaceful but stimulating environment would feed more towards the neocortical response for creative adaptation. Bruce has created several videos including Nature, Nurture, & the Power of Love: The Biology of Conscious Parenting (Spirit 2000, Inc., 2002).
On the hypnotic side.. can a competitive network take over without the operator knowing about it since it is a hidden net? I can't remember where I read about this story but the function is still the same, a good example of that was of the best horse coraller in the US history...who would stash food in the country side and hang out with his horse until he would lose his personal scent. Then would travel down wind from the herds and inch his way in little by little until he found himself in the middle of the herd. He would then Proceed to challenge the dominant horse and would win and then coral the horses where he wanted them to go.....mirroring and pacing which hidden nets...? is my question. It would also explain why some of the NLP big wigs were not successful even with their techniques...to resolve their differences and be models of what they were talking about..there seems to be little doubt in my mind that NLP is an effective technology not necessarily in the right hands for the right reasons under the right circumstances. Isn't it interesting that a lot of Milton Erickson Patient go married and had children...just an observation.
On the more esoteric side of this...some groups do believe that you cannot go and teach this stuff without taking care of the hidden nets because these will contaminate the work unbeknownst to the practioner and the person receiving the treatment..this could also be true of people who haven't resolved their own personal trauma and do trauma work on others. The donkey (competivitive net) that gets you to the door still has to be dismounted.(http://ishk.net/sufis/lessing_commandingself.html by Doris Lessing.) Preserved at the right level but not destroying the competitive net giving it just enough to help the person to live but can no longer dominate in the scheme of things (processes) Idries Shah's The Commanding Self (1994). The requirement was that they could not go back to a more primitive state of being in the world."The Commanding Self"; you should see the cover of his book, is a Sufi technical term for the false personality (hidden net?), which is made up of what a culture puts into a person--parents, schools, the zeitgeist (Doris Lessing). (The hidden competitive net...We have have found the enemy and it is us...as Pogo would say) This false self is an enemy which has to be recognized for what it is and then by-passed (but not destroyed) if the Sufi understanding is to be received. The Founder of Aikido, Morihei Ueshiba, talked about a Agatsu, (Self Victory) was talking about the Victory of the Higher Self over the lower self "Let that day arrive quickly!"and believed in protecting the attacker even thought they were aiming to kill... through the art of non contention..The Art of Peace by John Stevens. (The more accurate meaning of Jihad might be found here)
It was mentioned in Idries Shah work; the "Sufis" 1964 in the introduction by Robert Graves that these (Ollahms or Ollaves) Sufi masters (good humoredly accepted but no name could really could be ascribed to them) were required to study for 12 years and if a person asked in person to be helped (not family or well wishers) they would put them into a trance to diagnose their own disease and prescribe their own cure and then the master would make recommendations for preventing its reoccurence, all at the price of no more then a handful of barley. The Original quote was from Dr Jaffar in the International Journal of Clinical Hypnosis (1957).. I believe....not sure I don't have to book for referrece.
If our natural state is vulnerable at the core of our being then the competitive nets would assure we stay that way (ecology it may be that at our weakest state we are in our strongest state..hmmmm)...Then to allow the fools to persist in their folly until they realize it is foolish, at least for me doesn't violate a learning process (but perhaps under certain circumstances they need to be contained from doing too much harm).
No Gnat stings from malice!
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Permalink Reply by Pattie Freeman CH.t, MST on -
Exactly what Eric had stated..we are hypnotized most of the time from the marketing standpoint of businesses. Also, a hypnotist can do it and the person will be unaware of it at times.
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