Is there anyone in control?

I have always believed there was a God/Universal intelligence/Love, whatever you want to call it, in control of this world.
This has always provided me with a certain comfort, a reassurance that no horrendous act is without an underlying reason, that a baby's death can be rationalized away "it was meant to be."
I've never really believed the addage "God doesn't give you more than you can cope with." Some people kill themselves over things that have been "sent" their way.
Lately I have really started to question this supposition, I'm really not sure what has prompted this re-evaluation.
I know that I can rationalize anything to support my beliefs, no matter what they happen to be, I can take opposing views on something and argue both sides at the same time.
This makes me question the validity of my beliefs.
What if there IS no controlling entity?
There would be no-one to call on for help...there would be no point.
I guess atheists have been just fine with this idea and live full and productive lives.
The mind is so amazing, will I see and experience whatever I require to support my belief? It's certainly well accepted that we don't see the obvious, that is right in front of our faces, if we don't want to...
I don't want to let go of my belief that gives meaning to everything, that gives me comfort, so why do I find myself questioning my own beliefs with a feeling that there is some vital flaw there.
That actually, there are people who die, not because it was their time, but...just because, wrong place/wrong time. Innocent children get murdered, was there something they needed to experience from that? Maybe there wasn't, and we are just left with a gaping wounded hole with nothing to soothe it, no, "quick stuff a rationalization in it so we can heal." Are we MEANT to face the gaping hole of pain and just "sit with it?"
Does it matter one way or the other?
I used to have answers to all this, now all I have are questions.
I guess my concern is, even with just having an incling of how powerful the mind is, can I trust ANYTHING that my mind tells me?

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on May 16, 2009 at 9:44am

Conrad,
I love the way your logical mind works. Brilliant!
(that's one)

Susan

Conrad Cook said:

Sure, glad to talk..

You know, you mention elsewhere on the thres something about being more comfortable not knowing. It reminded me of something--

Very frequently, self-help systems that aim to teach patterns of thinking that are meant to make people happy and prosperous will talk about Finding Your Mission. I could never really relate to that, and therefore always found such talk vaguely alienating.

I tend to resist the idea that people are for anything, because it has always seemed to me that to think of people as means to an end, is kind of dehumanizing. It makes them into tools, in other words. (Kant says that we should always think of people as ends and never as means, and there's something about this being related to Christ's Golden Rule. I never followed the argument, but anyway I was glad to know he agreed with me.)

A while ago someone pressed me on this, asking what then gave my life meaning. It's kinda a bogus question, to me. We give symbols meaning; symbols are empty, meaningless things until we agree that they point to something we care about, and then we say we've given them meaning. Or you give something meaning when you know it will cause something important to happen.

But it seems to me that my life, and anyone's life, is meaningful in its own right; they have importance and value without needing to be symbols for something outside of them.

Not everyone sees what I mean by that. I was trying to explain it to this person who felt I needed a mission, or quest, or relationship with God, and they asked, "Well if you don't have a sense of purpose in your life, what have you got?"

I thought about it and said, "Well, I guess I have a sense of mystery." And they replied, "Oh, yuck!"

I'm more an explorer; interested in finding out what's there. Developing a sense of importance isn't important to me. -- It's a fun cheap thrill; I don't mind it when it comes along; but it's nothing I want to base my life around. And it's kinda a foolish reason to have ambitions, in my opinion.

Conrad.

ps - Re: God - I had a weird conversation where I was explaining that, if God existed, I felt confident He wouldn't hold my atheism against me. So in a sense, you could say I had faith. "That's not faith! That's not how it works!"

C.

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Permalink Reply by Darren on May 16, 2009 at 1:04pm

Hi Susan

Too bad not everyone is as open minded as you....or you would never have felt the need to “hide” your beliefs from anyone.

And you are exactly right, we will definitely NOT know what happens after death, which separates open minded people as well as atheists from the ultra-religeous folk who claim that they do know.

Having said that, my only issue (a very small one) with your point is that not everyone is afraid to die. Personally, I am afraid, not of death itself, but of a brutal mode of death. I was once severely injured and crippled...the accident which created this problem was something to be feared, for sure, but there came a point in time where the pain was so severe that I seriously wanted to die. I am also afraid of dying for some stupid reason (a thermo-nuclear war started by fanatical screwballs would qualify, so wouldbeing pancaked by a drunk driver, which is why I have little tolerance for fanatics and drunk drivers).

Many people use their faith in a god to bolster their courage when facing death, and that is fine for them. For a non-believer, the balm is in the feeling they have that they will be permanently freed from their pain and will not even know.
Just to clarify, I don’t absolutely discount the possibility of a spiritual ‘after-existence’ of some form, only the idea that we, as humans, can assign the framework of this possibility to the morals laid out in ancient man-made scriptures.

On his deathbed, the philosopher Voltaire was asked to denounce Satan, to which he responded:
"This is no time to make new enemies."
I am certainly no satanist, and I don’t feel that Voltaire believed in him either. I simply find this quote a testament to the man’s incredible sense of humor and wit. He also coined the phrase:
“I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.” which can hardly be considered an immoral sentiment to anyone who isn’t a fascist or communist.

cheers

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on May 16, 2009 at 1:44pm

Hi Darren,

I stand corrected: I should never make a statement suggesting an absolute...lol. As you mention, I have been in that kind of pain and couldn't quite get up the nerve, so I really relate to what you're saying. Also, you are right, not everyone is afraid to die. I shouldn't have stated it in the absolute. Actually, I am no longer afraid to die either, whether there is afterlife or just worms, but let's say, I'm not in a hurry either.

Are you better now, I hope?

Darren said:

Hi Susan

Too bad not everyone is as open minded as you....or you would never have felt the need to “hide” your beliefs from anyone.

And you are exactly right, we will definitely NOT know what happens after death, which separates open minded people as well as atheists from the ultra-religeous folk who claim that they do know.

Having said that, my only issue (a very small one) with your point is that not everyone is afraid to die. Personally, I am afraid, not of death itself, but of a brutal mode of death. I was once severely injured and crippled...the accident which created this problem was something to be feared, for sure, but there came a point in time where the pain was so severe that I seriously wanted to die. I am also afraid of dying for some stupid reason (a thermo-nuclear war started by fanatical screwballs would qualify, so wouldbeing pancaked by a drunk driver, which is why I have little tolerance for fanatics and drunk drivers).

Many people use their faith in a god to bolster their courage when facing death, and that is fine for them. For a non-believer, the balm is in the feeling they have that they will be permanently freed from their pain and will not even know.
Just to clarify, I don’t absolutely discount the possibility of a spiritual ‘after-existence’ of some form, only the idea that we, as humans, can assign the framework of this possibility to the morals laid out in ancient man-made scriptures.

On his deathbed, the philosopher Voltaire was asked to denounce Satan, to which he responded:
"This is no time to make new enemies."
I am certainly no satanist, and I don’t feel that Voltaire believed in him either. I simply find this quote a testament to the man’s incredible sense of humor and wit. He also coined the phrase:
“I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.” which can hardly be considered an immoral sentiment to anyone who isn’t a fascist or communist.

cheers