making a living? just how likely?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Shirley R. Patterson on June 23, 2009 at 5:35am

@Grumpy "Key is to avoid doing low ROI-activities which other hypnotists seem to focus on (ie. giving free talks, participating in the hypnosis community, recording CDs, relying on "word of mouth", jumping on marketing bandwagons, etc. --- that stuff is fine if you want to wait 10 years or so to build your practice)."

For those just starting out with no marketing budget, these are great ways to get your name out there. The most important thing is to have as many people as possible know who you are and where you are. You have to be proactive and do whatever it takes to get your name out.

Shirley

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on June 23, 2009 at 6:05am

by the way

Neil said:

++++but they are not afraid to pay money for drugs, medication, alcohol, movie and food.++++
This is because they are guaranteed to get what they pay for.

++++Not likely at all++++
This is because they need to fix themselves first. e.g. Confidence, determination, personality.......

++++My advice will be, keep your job and start part time, If it works for you, then become full time...++++
Hypnosis is an art. Some people, like Doreen, just have it. Bitch! Lol ( This really is just a joke. Pleased don't burn my house down).

++++a good 5 years to establish yourself++++
Fair enough! But, Nongard and Grumpy have very valid points.

++++You must be an entrepreneur first++++
It doesn't matter how skilled you are, there's always gonna be the problem of proving it. You can't prove it unless you hit your potential client's convincer strategy! Decide on the type of client you can get on with and want to help. Then you just go out there and meet them; deliberately and on purpose.

What does 'btw' mean?

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Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on June 23, 2009 at 6:12am

John,
Don't let other peoples 'suggestions' deture you from your goals.
Some people may say "unlikely" and some people (myself) say... it is likely - if you work at it.
Once you get the training, I think the key is: doing it.
Not thinking about it.
Not rehearsing in your mind how you would like it to be (for the millionth time).
To get results...you have to take action.
Sometimes it is easier to blame lack of clients on the economy or whatever the other excuses are.
GET REAL!!
When I don't have clients...I know who to look at: myself.
Have I "really" done all the things I could have, to generate business?
Nearly every time this has happened I can safely say: NO. I haven't.
There is NO END to the opportunities out there.
To get results...you have to take action.
Lack of results means...lack of action.

One must ask themselves..."How motivated are you?"
If the answer isn't: totally motivated...
I know a good group of hypnotherapists who can help you with that.

My 2 cents.
~D.

John Tolles said:

"not likely at all"
I was afraid of that. Thought I'd ask anyway in case someone was able to. Tho to be honest I'm more afraid that I might be unable to solve the client's problems.

"figure on it taking a good 5 years to establish yourself."
gosh.

"Where were you thinking about taking your training?"
Hypnotherapy Academy of America.

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Permalink Reply by Bruce Taylor C.Ht on June 23, 2009 at 6:19am

John,
Richard gives great asvice. I work out of my home and see that it would be difficult doing it full time from there. I live out in the country and do find that some potential clients never call back once they learn I am working out of my home office. I however at this time am fine with it since I make a good living at my day job. Hypnosis is a suplimental income at this time. You never know what the future holds. I agree with Richard that if you give enough time and effort you can acheive that number you mentioned. Whatever you do I wish you the best.

Bruce Taylor

Richard Nongard - HypnosisGurus.com said:

3K a month is a bit low. Charging only $229 for smoking cessation (2 sessions - this is the LOW end of pricing for such a protocol) means you only need 20 clients a month to make $4500 a month... Charge $279 and have 20 clients a month, just for smoking cessation and earn $5500 a month....

How do you get that many clients? People seach for hypnotists online by geography. Pick a domain name that leads people to you like www.ScottsdaleHypnosis.com or something. Learn about SEO and get good search engine results. (For example, just type in the word "hypnosis" into google and the first video is ME. Not bad search engine placement. (I do not own scottsdalehypnosis.com It is just an example, I do not know who owns it).

Run a business like a business. DO NOT practice out of your house unless you want to chop out 80% of the potential clients who were willing to scedule an appointment. Buy some classified ads in the weekly paper. Spend every minute you are not seeing clients meeting people and doing marketing ie./ Chamber of commerce or Rotary. Meet other professionals.

Set the bar high. As I tell people all the time, in a county the size of your county can you find ten people a week willing to pay you $250 to help them quit smoking? That is 10K a month.

Oh, and learn how to promote a market a hypnosis practice from those whith successful practices, not at home hypnotists who never see clients.

I know skilled hypnotists who can;t pay the bills at the end of the month, and some real lousy hypnotists making tons of money. Hypnosis is the product, but it's just a business like any other so get basic business skills and use them and you will be successful.

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on June 23, 2009 at 6:33am

I think the fairest answer to someone starting out is to be prepared to build slowly. I found much easier to build a clientele of professional singing students than I did marketing hypnosis, and I remember it taking me a lot longer to build that clientele than six months. In the end I had a waiting list and my name was fairly well-known around L.A. in that community.

I think your circumstances were a bit different from most, though, Melissa. You already had relationships in that field and it sounded as if you already really knew how things functioned in that world. Your strategy was a great one. I watched your video from the NGH and I have several of your books, including the one about connecting with medical people. The ideas were clearly outlined and wonderful.

But most people are not skilled or naturals at marketing and promotion. Most people are not natural networkers. Most people are not natural salespeople Most people can't go out and create business out of the blue, which is what is required in our field.

It took me a long time to figure out the best way to go about developing a practice. In fact, the school I went to was successfully sued because they promised a success level that was unrealistic. In fact, because I listened to their estimates, I allowed my other business to founder and DID almost lose everything.

I'm not saying it can't be done because obviously it can. So, then, John: go for it but make sure your bases are covered financially while you figure out how to make it work. Then, once you have followed through on your training, don't give up!

Anyhow, those are my thoughts.

Susan











Melissa J. Roth said:

It took me about 6 months. By 3 yrs I was totally booked for three weeks out and partially booked 6 weeks out. In those days I was seeing 25-30 clients a week. I still need that kind of income (daughter in college with champaigne tastes) but I'm too lazy to see that many clients again. Now I see no more than 20.
the grumpy hypnotist said:

@Richard, re: "I know skilled hypnotists who can;t pay the bills at the end of the month, and some real lousy hypnotists making tons of money." I agree that's true, but I also think that is sometimes used by practitioners as an excuse for not succeeding. In other words, where people tell themselves, "Oh, I just know I'd be a wonderful hypnotist if only I'd get the chance... that other fellow who is busy is just good at marketing. Me, on the other hand, I deeply care about hypnosis and just want to help people..."
@Melissa, you mention that you've never advertised, and instead developed relationships with professionals in other fields (great strategy btw). I am curious, how long did it take you to go full-time using that strategy? I am wondering because I always figured that someone who just got trained, a total novice, would have difficult time building that kind of relationship when they are still in very early stages of practicing?

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Permalink Reply by Neil on June 23, 2009 at 6:49am

Thank you Susan,

Yours with thanks, Neil.

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on June 23, 2009 at 7:20am

@Melissa, that is great. Personally I am not inclined to putting the kind of effort to schmooze (as you put it) and build connections, but I can see how building relationships with non-hypnosis professionals and picking related niche can make a big difference for people who are inclined to do so. I had thought that was something better done once a hypnotist had a great deal of experience and real expertise but maybe not, I guess that strategy could work even for a novice?

@Fable, I think there is a difference between person who consciously chooses not to market to full capacity, nothing wrong with that, versus the common scenario where a person uses that as an after-the-fact rationalization for not doing well. My point is that leads to self-comforting fallacy of "the busy hypnotist is just better at marketing, while the struggling hypnotist really cares about the work".

@Neil, btw means "by the way".

@Shirley, I guess it doesn't make sense to me that anyone would start a business lacking in resources to devote to the marketing (not speaking strictly of advertising but also time and other resources). But anyway, networking and chatting with fellow hypnotists, writing scripts, going to conventions, chasing more certifications, creating CDs, etc. do very little in regards to effectively reaching the people who want and need your services. And passively hoping for "word of mouth" as a brand-new practitioner is a common dead-end, from what I observe.

@Donna, i'm with you there. There is no "economy". There are only market conditions that can be used to your advantage.

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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on June 23, 2009 at 9:21am

Neil,

++++My advice will be, keep your job and start part time, If it works for you, then become full time...++++
Hypnosis is an art. Some people, like Doreen, just have it. Bitch! Lol ( This really is just a joke. Pleased don't burn my house down).

Damn, you are really a straight forward guy.. lol.. My type of guy :), and I take it as a compliment, by the way, How did you know my middle Name was "B*** :) One of the scenes I adopted during the years,was from a Movie "Dolores Claiborne"- Sometimes Being A Bitch is All Women Has to Hang On To It.
Sometimes, you have to be a high riding bitch to survive...
Now, lets be realistic here, I wish I was successful as it seems to be, but I promise you One Day I Will.
What I am lacking is Marketing, the right advertisement without trowing my hard earn money to a wait, and this is my biggest dilemma.

So If anyway want to share their sweet secret, feel free to email me privately lol....

Enjoy It...
Respectfully Doreen Cohanim C.Ht

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Permalink Reply by Scott Sandland on June 23, 2009 at 6:40pm

It took me just over six months to reach that amount. It took work and a planninng, and I definitely recommend a part time job or having a good chunk of savings before you launch a private practice.

It's absolutely possible (depending on your rates and where you are located) to gross 3 grand a week from clients without any gimicky upsells. I don't have vitamins or candles to sell, I give recordings to my clients rather than sell them, I don't ask them to commit to any number of sessions or give discounts for packages. The only thing I charge them is my fee for services, which is a flat rate per session. With that you can build a strong income, but it takes time, dedication, and great training. Lots of hypnos honestly don't have the training or insight to be successful, and it's not their fault.

Too often people are trained by instructors who haven't ever made their total income from seeing clients. I've seen people teach their students what they were taught, even though it didn't work for them, simply because they didn't have a better solution. These poor students haven't received the therapeutic techniques, marketing understanding, or business insight needed to succeed in their new business.

Starting a private practice must, in my opinion, be seen as starting a business. Lot's of hypnotists are looking to help people, which is wonderful. Now learn how to keep your lights on and food on the table while helping people so you can focus on doing it. That way you don't need a second job to support your passion.

I always say that if I won the lottery tomorrow nothing would change in my business except finding someone to do my paperwork for me. I really mean that. Your practice can't be all about the money, but if it doesn't make the money you won't be there long enough to help people.

I'm going to cut this short before I get carried away talking about pyramid schemes and deceptive marketing.

Good luck,
Scott

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on June 24, 2009 at 7:54am

Scott,

What a wonderful post. Sensible and honest.

Can you share with us some of the things you found really helpful and some that don't work at all (besides the lottery and pyramid schemes)? It sounds as if you did a lot of research and found some solutions.

Susan

Scott Sandland, C.Ht. said:

It took me just over six months to reach that amount. It took work and a planninng, and I definitely recommend a part time job or having a good chunk of savings before you launch a private practice.

It's absolutely possible (depending on your rates and where you are located) to gross 3 grand a week from clients without any gimicky upsells. I don't have vitamins or candles to sell, I give recordings to my clients rather than sell them, I don't ask them to commit to any number of sessions or give discounts for packages. The only thing I charge them is my fee for services, which is a flat rate per session. With that you can build a strong income, but it takes time, dedication, and great training. Lots of hypnos honestly don't have the training or insight to be successful, and it's not their fault.

Too often people are trained by instructors who haven't ever made their total income from seeing clients. I've seen people teach their students what they were taught, even though it didn't work for them, simply because they didn't have a better solution. These poor students haven't received the therapeutic techniques, marketing understanding, or business insight needed to succeed in their new business.

Starting a private practice must, in my opinion, be seen as starting a business. Lot's of hypnotists are looking to help people, which is wonderful. Now learn how to keep your lights on and food on the table while helping people so you can focus on doing it. That way you don't need a second job to support your passion.

I always say that if I won the lottery tomorrow nothing would change in my business except finding someone to do my paperwork for me. I really mean that. Your practice can't be all about the money, but if it doesn't make the money you won't be there long enough to help people.

I'm going to cut this short before I get carried away talking about pyramid schemes and deceptive marketing.

Good luck,
Scott

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Permalink Reply by Greg Turner on June 24, 2009 at 10:41am

John, Hypnotherapy Academy of America is a great school - I went there myself. However, (at least when I was there 2 years ago) like most schools they are very weak on teaching how to run a practice as a business. Depending on how hard you work it should take much less than 5 years to get yourself established. You need to find yourself a niche market and market the heck to your niche promoting the benefits to the niche (not the feature which is hypnosis - nobody cares about hypnosis or nlp). The very best way to market for what you do is to give talks to your niche market about the benefits you provide to your niche market. At the end of the talk, offer a free 30 consultation. Do networking with a great elevator pitch. And finally, get envolved with social media marketing (website, email list, twitter, facebook, youtube, blog). DO NOT waste money putting ads in newspapers or yellow pages. Hope this helps.

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on June 24, 2009 at 2:46pm

I have to second what everyone else is saying about having six months of operating expenses in the bank before launching your private practice. That way you won't be making business decisions from a place of desperation and poverty mentality. And you'll be treating it as a business from the beginning.

Billings and profits are two different things. If you want to clear $3,000 a month, you may need billings of $6,000 or more, depending on where you're located. But, as others have pointed out, that shouldn't be difficult with a decent hourly rate.

Which brings me to the budget issue. You won't know how much you have to bill to hit $3K a month until you know what your expenses will be. It's spreadsheet time! Taxes, utilities, rent, insurance, professional memberships, continuing education (very important), incorporation costs (if appropriate), office furniture (my hypnotherapist spent quite a bit of money on his comfy chair, e.g.), computer equipment, software, phone, Internet access, bookkeeper, accountant, lawyer, etc. etc.

And then there's marketing and PR. A marketing and PR plan would be a good idea. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by skimping on marketing. It's not difficult to spend $10,000 on marketing when you first launch a business. And there will be recurring monthly marketing costs as well.

You must have a search-engine-optimized website. This is not optional. Melissa Roth can get away with having a crappy website because she is a world-class expert in her field, she absolutely dominates her niche in her geographic area, and she has mastered the art of personal referrals. (Here's a great book on building a referral business: Endless Referrals by Bob Burg Highly recommended.)

Beginners need a very high-ROI way to generate leads, and a SEO website and Internet marketing is one of the best ways to do that.

A business identity package is highly recommended (logo, tag line, graphic design elements, positioning statement, "about us" boilerplate, etc.) It might be a good idea to have marketing collateral that is very professional, especially when you're starting out.

A media kit is highly recommended. (This is an assortment of information you make available on your website for media inquiries.) This will help you take advantage of PR opportunities when they arise.

So how much should you budget for all that jazz?

Marketing and PR are what I do for a living. I tend to be at the "BMW" end of the spectrum. You can get acceptable quality work for less than I charge. But this should help you put a ballpark figure in place. It's always better to estimate at the high end, and be pleasantly surprised that you have money left over.

In general, I charge between $500 and $1000 for an initial consultation and planning. A very basic Web site and geographic targeted SEO would start at about $4,000. A Media Kit is about $1,500 and up, depending. An identity package will run about $1,500 to $2,000.

It is absolutely true that you can learn how to market yourself and some people do a good job of it. DIY marketing tends to be very time-consuming, though. You have to decide if your time is better spent seeing clients, learning to be a world-class hypnotherapist, or teaching yourself marketing copywriting, PR, marketing strategy, and SEO.

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