making a living? just how likely?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on June 24, 2009 at 3:07pm

Kathleen,

re: "It's spreadsheet time!" Yes! I think the #1 skill all hypnotists need to develop is using EXCEL. Forget scripts and techniques and that junk. It's PIVOT TABLE TIME!!! I'm only slightly exaggerating here.

re: "Beginners need a very high-ROI way to generate leads." Yes! There seems to be a flaw in how sometimes beginners think they can afford to spend time, money, resources on low-ROI activities because they are just beginners, and maybe they will focus on more profitable activities later, when they become successful. This is totally backwards thinking, if you think about it. Only established businesses can afford to diddle around with low-multiple marketing activities, perhaps in an attempt to diversify.

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Permalink Reply by John Tolles on June 24, 2009 at 5:24pm

Thanks everybody. Gave me a lot to think about. I'm seriously contemplating on going into the hypnosis business but it looks like I need to save up on the capital to sustain the first year of operation. Read some books on marketing while I'm at it.

I'm actually working on my apprenticeship right now to become a journeyman as an electrician. Don't feel like doing this for the rest of my life anymore.

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Permalink Reply by Zoilita Grant on June 24, 2009 at 6:42pm

Dear All...I am so sorry to see that so many of you have experienced challenges in making a great living with hypnosis. I do believe and have experience myself that you can make $100,000 a year, working part time and making the world a better place. I think that you can take a year to get to $50,000 and two to be at $100,000. You can make more than that by doing hypnosis classes. I don't actually believe much in paying for advertising, but I do think a good web site and developing a referring network are essential. Always work smarter not harder. I like a balance of inner and outer marketing. I believe in having a clear picture of your ideal client and manifesting for your clients weekly. I think good hypnosis skills are critical. Continuing education keeps you vital and build depth in your skills. Hypnosis is art and science. The science is pretty easy to learn, the art creates real transformation. The real key to successful private practice is successful clients. Zoilita www.coloradohypnotherapy.com

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Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on June 24, 2009 at 7:06pm

Zoilita, as usual, you summed it up honestly and beautifully.

Zoilita Grant MS. CCHt.Certified Hypnotic-CoachTM said:

Dear All...I am so sorry to see that so many of you have experienced challenges in making a great living with hypnosis. I do believe and have experience myself that you can make $100,000 a year, working part time and making the world a better place. I think that you can take a year to get to $50,000 and two to be at $100,000. You can make more than that by doing hypnosis classes. I don't actually believe much in paying for advertising, but I do think a good web site and developing a referring network are essential. Always work smarter not harder. I like a balance of inner and outer marketing. I believe in having a clear picture of your ideal client and manifesting for your clients weekly. I think good hypnosis skills are critical. Continuing education keeps you vital and build depth in your skills. Hypnosis is art and science. The science is pretty easy to learn, the art creates real transformation. The real key to successful private practice is successful clients. Zoilita www.coloradohypnotherapy.com

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on June 25, 2009 at 5:52am

Hi Zolita and all

Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm so glad this discussion took off.

I created my teaching business through advertising in the trade magazines but that was 30 or so years ago and it's a specialized field. I agree with everyone about regular advertising: it's a tough and expensive way to go.

When I talked about advertising, I meant through the internet with a good website and a lot of SEO research and using PPC alongside of natural ranking. That's worked for me though I'm at a place where I'm ready to move forward and build again, so I'm really grateful that this discussion is expanding.

@Zolita: you found yourself most successful with classes? Could I chat more with you about that? I was going to do that but have been trying to keep myself focused, so I've stayed with learning how to market on the internet.

Thanks,

Susan

Melissa J. Roth said:

Zoilita, as usual, you summed it up honestly and beautifully.

Zoilita Grant MS. CCHt.Certified Hypnotic-CoachTM said:

Dear All...I am so sorry to see that so many of you have experienced challenges in making a great living with hypnosis. I do believe and have experience myself that you can make $100,000 a year, working part time and making the world a better place. I think that you can take a year to get to $50,000 and two to be at $100,000. You can make more than that by doing hypnosis classes. I don't actually believe much in paying for advertising, but I do think a good web site and developing a referring network are essential. Always work smarter not harder. I like a balance of inner and outer marketing. I believe in having a clear picture of your ideal client and manifesting for your clients weekly. I think good hypnosis skills are critical. Continuing education keeps you vital and build depth in your skills. Hypnosis is art and science. The science is pretty easy to learn, the art creates real transformation. The real key to successful private practice is successful clients. Zoilita www.coloradohypnotherapy.com

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on June 25, 2009 at 6:23am

Hi Kathleen,

It sounds like you have my missing information...lol.

@Shirley, that was me too. I didn't know which path to follow and whose advice to listen to. Truthfully, even at this point, I'm still learning how to market effectively with the least amount of up-front money.

By upfront money I include the things that someone listed: rent, business cards, brochures, website design and other expenses, ongoing education and skill building, search engine optimization, insurance, research, reading, learning etc, PLUS the all-important "living life money".

I really started from absolutely nothing but what I knew about hypnosis, what I felt to be very inadequate training, and what I had learned from building my teaching business.

I guess what I'm trying to say are two things.

1) all good suggestions for marketing and promotion welcomed

2) I have a guess that there are more like me trying to build a practice: low on money, having to make a living while starting a new business, not a lot of sales skills, trying to find their way in the wilderness. At least when I started my teaching business I had been teaching for some time through our music store (no longer available), insignificant living expenses AND a reasonable amount of startup money. So, again: all good suggestions for marketing an promotion welcomed.

Susan


Susan

I agree with Zolita and that is how I have moved forward: a little marketing, more skill building, more marketing, more skill building.

I mentored with a teacher from the school that I went to and her advice was to take the free speaking and talking to strangers route. I tried it for a little while but wasn't really sure it was the right use of energy.

In time, my clients via my website and my WOM have been building steadily. Maybe I'm slower than others but it's taken me awhile. I, I think like most people, had to keep enough money coming in to sustain me and to build my business (education, skills, trial-and-error, everything it takes).

@Kathleen: since you are at the highest end of your field (and congratulations for that, whew, especially in that field), are there books, classes, websites, ideas to develop?

@Melissa: I think I finally have enough of the pieces of the puzzle in place to begin to follow your suggestions. I wanted a nice brochure, a nice website, a nice business card and the right words to use (because I really had the knowledge and skills and wasn't BSing) before I went to speak to doctors. I wanted to be really conversant in some medical hypnosis and pain management too. I have that down now. But I know myself. I cringe at the idea of "cold calling" or anything resembling it. That's probably why I've dragged my feet too.





Kathleen Hanover said:

I have to second what everyone else is saying about having six months of operating expenses in the bank before launching your private practice. That way you won't be making business decisions from a place of desperation and poverty mentality. And you'll be treating it as a business from the beginning.
Billings and profits are two different things. If you want to clear $3,000 a month, you may need billings of $6,000 or more, depending on where you're located. But, as others have pointed out, that shouldn't be difficult with a decent hourly rate. Which brings me to the budget issue. You won't know how much you have to bill to hit $3K a month until you know what your expenses will be. It's spreadsheet time! Taxes, utilities, rent, insurance, professional memberships, continuing education (very important), incorporation costs (if appropriate), office furniture (my hypnotherapist spent quite a bit of money on his comfy chair, e.g.), computer equipment, software, phone, Internet access, bookkeeper, accountant, lawyer, etc. etc.

And then there's marketing and PR. A marketing and PR plan would be a good idea. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by skimping on marketing. It's not difficult to spend $10,000 on marketing when you first launch a business. And there will be recurring monthly marketing costs as well.

You must have a search-engine-optimized website. This is not optional. Melissa Roth can get away with having a crappy website because she is a world-class expert in her field, she absolutely dominates her niche in her geographic area, and she has mastered the art of personal referrals. (Here's a great book on building a referral business: Endless Referrals by Bob Burg Highly recommended.)

Beginners need a very high-ROI way to generate leads, and a SEO website and Internet marketing is one of the best ways to do that.

A business identity package is highly recommended (logo, tag line, graphic design elements, positioning statement, "about us" boilerplate, etc.) It might be a good idea to have marketing collateral that is very professional, especially when you're starting out.

A media kit is highly recommended. (This is an assortment of information you make available on your website for media inquiries.) This will help you take advantage of PR opportunities when they arise.

So how much should you budget for all that jazz?

Marketing and PR are what I do for a living. I tend to be at the "BMW" end of the spectrum. You can get acceptable quality work for less than I charge. But this should help you put a ballpark figure in place. It's always better to estimate at the high end, and be pleasantly surprised that you have money left over.

In general, I charge between $500 and $1000 for an initial consultation and planning. A very basic Web site and geographic targeted SEO would start at about $4,000. A Media Kit is about $1,500 and up, depending. An identity package will run about $1,500 to $2,000.

It is absolutely true that you can learn how to market yourself and some people do a good job of it. DIY marketing tends to be very time-consuming, though. You have to decide if your time is better spent seeing clients, learning to be a world-class hypnotherapist, or teaching yourself marketing copywriting, PR, marketing strategy, and SEO.

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on June 27, 2009 at 3:55am

Hello Marie,

I had a bit of an advantage in terms of office because I already had office space when I started. I think working from home is disadvantage but not a critical factor. Renting office space if you do not have your marketing and business skills up to speed adds substantial risk, depending on your financial cushion. But on the other hand it can force you to take action to build the business and get better at marketing.

"I have spent thousands in live and video training, books and travel; I can't help but wonder if I had not spent so much on training and saved instead, enough would have been saved to cover all the costs of starting up."

No need to wonder. Your suspicion is correct. After a short while, continuing to spend on training etc. without practical experience and application, reaches a point of diminishing returns. The only person really benefitting at that point is the trainer who sells you those materials and courses. Training only truly makes sense when combined with real-world experience, anyway.

Personally I find support and encouragement from others to be irrelevant. In fact, part of what motivates me to build a successful practice is to give a big "F.U." middle-finger to people who told me or thought that I was crazy for leaving a lucrative and comfortable profession to go into this weird business. But I was fortunate to have spouse who was not negative about it; she thought it was a nutty idea but she likes nutty ideas in general.

Of course everyone's personality is different and some people do want encouraging words and emotional support. But the encouragement and support I would give to those folks is: "Who cares what other people think?"

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on June 27, 2009 at 6:15am

PS. Marie, I just want to add some thoughts re: support and encouragement from friends and family. I would not expect or hope for those things, partly because I think humans by nature often do not like to see people close to them "grow". Because it is an uncomfortable reminder of their own stagnation. So they will often unconsciously obstruct or denigrate a person who is showing signs of growth. This is partly why it is important to get in the habit of being around people who are more successful than you.

My point is that if you aren't getting support and encouragement from friends and family, do not think that is something wrong with you and your goals. It's just human nature.

On the other hand, if those close to you make negative comments about certain things, they may have a point, but you need to be able to objectively assess if they do --- for example, if someone close to you has made comments regarding the amount of money you've been spending on training with no profitable results... well, maybe they have a point there.

On the other other hand, unless the friends and family have personal experience with being successful in the way that you are aiming for, then their opinions need to be taken with a barrel of salt. An example is: I was talking to a client about building her spiritually-inclined yoga-related personal training business. She mentioned that in her marketing materials, she had wanted to use the term "namaste" in the signature. But her sister laughed at her and told her that no one knows what that word means. I asked the client if her sister would be considered part of her target market, and she said no way, she's not into any of that stuff. So I said to the client: "Then why would you shape your marketing message based on the opinion of someone who would never be your client anyway???"

I mean, in one sense, her sister is correct --- 95% of the people out there have no idea what "namaste" means, and they don't care either. But who cares what those people think? Using that term will help build a connection with the people that matter. And even people who don't know what that word means, if they have the any interest in that sort of work, will become curious about it. Ah well.

Anyway, I hope this helps. I figure you asked the question regarding emotional support and encouragement from friends/family because you have had some negative experiences in that area.

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Permalink Reply by Katherine Zimmerman on June 27, 2009 at 7:48am

Marie,

When I started I worked out of my home and kept my day job. I was fortunate b/c I worked for a university and could reduce my time gradually. But I still saw clients at home for 9 years. I did share an office with another hypnotherapist briefly but I was always concerned about the rent so I went back to the home office. When I was finally ready to rent an office I found a place that I could sublease. The rent was $300/month and she had furniture in the waiting room already. Seeing only 3 clients a month paid the rent and I wasn't worried about who I was inviting into my home.

I tell my students that having a web presence is essential. I used to get 1/3 of my clients from the yellow pages but now they find me on the internet. It's quite affordable, esp. if you build your own website. My sister built her own site and she is not that computer literate. Check it out: www.venturahypnotherapy.com

I did not have much outside support on any level. I had (and still have) a fire burning inside me that kept me going.

My best marketing plan was teaching classes to the general public. While I was teaching self hypnosis I was being paid to advertise myself. My students consistently came for private sessions after taking the class. They also said that they wouldn't have come in for sessions if they hadn't taken the class first.

Katherine

Marie Laso-Barros said:

Question to the posters of this very helpful thread.
When all of you started working as hypnotists and renting out an office. Did you start by renting out space for a full month or a couple of days every week by yourself or sharing with another practitioner?
Right now I'm stuck working from home seeing the odd client through word of mouth. I have money for rent and to live but not to spend on a hypnosis practice, believe me, I have made every effort to save, yet every time money is stashed away, something happens where it needs to be used.
I have spent thousands in live and video training, books and travel; I can't help but wonder if I had not spent so much on training and saved instead, enough would have been saved to cover all the costs of starting up.

Another question I have is, did you find that you were more able to succeed at what you wanted to do because you had the encouragement, emotional support, if not financial, of your friends and family?
How many of you were able to succeed without any support or encouragement from others?

Marie

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Permalink Reply by Al Whitton on June 27, 2009 at 10:45am

So glad for this thread.

I have a website - www.westessexhypnotherapy.co.uk whick i slaved over for 3 months at end of last year, but I get ZERO back from it.
I really mean zero.

My marketing skills are non existent, other than twitter and facebook type posts... so this is all helpful, thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on June 27, 2009 at 12:32pm

Hypnosis is searched more than hypnotherapy. so for a website i would prefer westessexhypnosis.com to westessexhypnotherapy.com And you should own both the .co.uk and the .com and actually both hypnosis and hypnotherapy in both versions. One example fo the many domain names I do own, is I own BOTH www.hypnosis.ph and www.hypnosis.com.ph
(For those who wonder why, the Phillippines is the worlds third largest English speaking country with 93 million English speakers and virually an untouched hypnosis market. See my youtube videos for MANY videos done in the Philippines)

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on June 27, 2009 at 10:09pm

Hi Susan,

Thanks for the compliment, Susan. I do okay. It has only taken me 20 years of hard work to become an overnight sensation. ;) Becoming really good at marketing and PR probably takes as long as becoming really good at hypnotherapy. So I don't know that it would be a good return on your investment (in terms of time) to try to become a marketing expert. Unless it's something you're excited about and into anyway.

However, it might make sense to at least become familiar with marketing concepts, so when you do set out to buy marketing services from someone, you can recognize the difference between quality and crap. I have a bookstore on my website with a list of my favorite marketing, PR, networking and copywriting books. (So I don't run afoul of the no-ads policy, please don't buy anything from my store. If you see a book you like, look it up on Amazon, or better yet, get it free at the library.)

There are a lot of good free resources online. Wordpress is a great open-source blogging platform that can pass for a website (in fact, my site is a customized WP blog.) Twitter and Facebook are free. HypnoThoughts is free. Cold calling is free. Asking for referrals is free.

Re: cold calling, get a copy of The Sandler Rules: 49 Timeless Selling Principles and How to Apply ... For referrals, get Endless Referrals.

I haven't taken a lot of classes. Truth be told, I have no formal training in marketing or PR...I have a BFA in theater directing (I concentrated in Shakespeare.) I've worked for and learned from some really smart people and I've done a lot of reading. However, I can wholeheartedly recommend Sandler sales training. It's very expensive, and worth about 10 times what I paid for it. Every business owner should join Sandler's Presidents Club immediately if not sooner. It's really life-changing. My billings have gone up about 50% a year for the past two years with help from Sandler.

Hope this helps!

Kathleen
Seeing the world through marketing-colored glasses

Susan French said:

Hi Kathleen,

It sounds like you have my missing information...lol.

@Kathleen: since you are at the highest end of your field (and congratulations for that, whew, especially in that field), are there books, classes, websites, ideas to develop?

But I know myself. I cringe at the idea of "cold calling" or anything resembling it. That's probably why I've dragged my feet too.

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