MayoClinic.com on Hypnosis

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on December 20, 2009 at 3:35pm

Melissa,

Yes indeed, the Mayo brothers would be spinning in their graves.
Absolutely disgraceful!!

Saul

www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com

P.S. did I read correctly that they asked you if you wanted to meet "their hypnotherapist" as in SINGULAR-
as in they only had ONE hypnotherapist?!





Melissa J. Roth said:

Approimately 4 1/2 years ago my daughter was at Mayo in Rochester for 3 very long weeks. I was not impressed. They had only recently added hypnotherapy to their services. When they found out what I did they asked me if I wanted to meet their hypnotherapist. Her approach to IBS hypnosis was not what I thought would work very well but it didn't matter because she hardly got any GI referrals. Her approach to Fibromyalgia was simplistic and wasn't working very well. I offered to train her in Fibromyalgia hypnosis and was told by the head of tne department that she was NOT allowed to take classes outside of the Mayo system. I'm not sure the same person is still working there but their committment to hypnosis is minimal and only to placate patients who insist on an alternative to conventional medicine. The Mayo bothers would be spinning in their graves if they knew the mindset of their current practitioners. This article was obviously written by someone who does not know hypnosis but was simply doing a literature search and pulled out sound bytes. Shame on the Mayo system.

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Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on December 20, 2009 at 9:04pm

Out of curiosity I emailed this article to 3 family members and 3 friends, none of whom as far as I know have ever had a hypnosis session. Their knowledge of hypnosis is what I would consider to be that of the average person on the street - pretty limited. I asked them to read the article and let me know what they thought. Every one of them emailed back that they were "impressed that Mayo Clinic was endorsing hypnosis" and that I must be really excited by the article.

This is certainly an unscientific and very limited "poll" - but I am wondering if those of us who perhaps know a bit more on the subject that most people saw the flaws, but maybe we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. What do you think?

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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on December 20, 2009 at 9:17pm

I think with "friends" of hypnotism like those ignorant incompetent dolts at the Mayo Clinic- who needs enemies?
The phrase that comes to mind is not "gift horse", but rather "horse's ass"...!

Saul

www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com




Roger Moore, PhD said:

Out of curiosity I emailed this article to 3 family members and 3 friends, none of whom as far as I know have ever had a hypnosis session. Their knowledge of hypnosis is what I would consider to be that of the average person on the street - pretty limited. I asked them to read the article and let me know what they thought. Every one of them emailed back that they were "impressed that Mayo Clinic was endorsing hypnosis" and that I must be really excited by the article.

This is certainly an unscientific and very limited "poll" - but I am wondering if those of us who perhaps know a bit more on the subject that most people saw the flaws, but maybe we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. What do you think?

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Permalink Reply by Pattie Freeman CH.t, MST on December 20, 2009 at 10:10pm

Thanks for sharing..

Pattie Freeman CH.t, MST

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on December 21, 2009 at 3:43am

Roger,

Asking what they think is not enough... Ask them if they would use the Mayo guidelines, if they were actually going to be selecting a hypnotherapist or hypnosis practitioner after reading it...

This gift is a Trojan horse --

Warmest regards,
Michael E.

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Out of curiosity I emailed this article to 3 family members and 3 friends, none of whom as far as I know have ever had a hypnosis session. Their knowledge of hypnosis is what I would consider to be that of the average person on the street - pretty limited. I asked them to read the article and let me know what they thought. Every one of them emailed back that they were "impressed that Mayo Clinic was endorsing hypnosis" and that I must be really excited by the article.
This is certainly an unscientific and very limited "poll" - but I am wondering if those of us who perhaps know a bit more on the subject that most people saw the flaws, but maybe we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. What do you think?

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Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on December 21, 2009 at 3:50am

Honestly - I doubt anyone read beyond the first page.

Michael Ellner said:

Roger,

Asking what they think is not enough... Ask them if they would use the Mayo guidelines, if they were actually going to be selecting a hypnotherapist or hypnosis practitioner after reading it...

This gift is a Trojan horse --

Warmest regards,
Michael E.

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Out of curiosity I emailed this article to 3 family members and 3 friends, none of whom as far as I know have ever had a hypnosis session. Their knowledge of hypnosis is what I would consider to be that of the average person on the street - pretty limited. I asked them to read the article and let me know what they thought. Every one of them emailed back that they were "impressed that Mayo Clinic was endorsing hypnosis" and that I must be really excited by the article.
This is certainly an unscientific and very limited "poll" - but I am wondering if those of us who perhaps know a bit more on the subject that most people saw the flaws, but maybe we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. What do you think?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on December 22, 2009 at 7:33am

Yes, Saul, SINGULAR. One hypnotherapist for the entire Rochester system. She was busy trying to drum up referrals from the MD's there. I haven't checked back to see how busy she is now. Like I said, their program was just beginning. Maybe there are several hypnos working their now...... On contrast, the Rheumatology department at Georgetown Medical School has it's own hypnotherapist on staff who is swamped all the time---just from that one department, not the entire medical school.

Saul Rosenfeld said:

Melissa,

Yes indeed, the Mayo brothers would be spinning in their graves.
Absolutely disgraceful!!

Saul

www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com

P.S. did I read correctly that they asked you if you wanted to meet "their hypnotherapist" as in SINGULAR-
as in they only had ONE hypnotherapist?!





Melissa J. Roth said:

Approimately 4 1/2 years ago my daughter was at Mayo in Rochester for 3 very long weeks. I was not impressed. They had only recently added hypnotherapy to their services. When they found out what I did they asked me if I wanted to meet their hypnotherapist. Her approach to IBS hypnosis was not what I thought would work very well but it didn't matter because she hardly got any GI referrals. Her approach to Fibromyalgia was simplistic and wasn't working very well. I offered to train her in Fibromyalgia hypnosis and was told by the head of tne department that she was NOT allowed to take classes outside of the Mayo system. I'm not sure the same person is still working there but their committment to hypnosis is minimal and only to placate patients who insist on an alternative to conventional medicine. The Mayo bothers would be spinning in their graves if they knew the mindset of their current practitioners. This article was obviously written by someone who does not know hypnosis but was simply doing a literature search and pulled out sound bytes. Shame on the Mayo system.

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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on December 22, 2009 at 7:51am

Melissa,

Actually, I don't know why I'm even surprised. Like I wrote in an earlier thread, my daughter got her M.D. at the highly regarded and progressive medical school at Rotterdam University in Holland, and she told me that in all her years of study they had but a SINGLE ONE-HOUR lecture about the possible role of hypnosis in healing...!

Saul

www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on December 22, 2009 at 5:11pm

I have a great deal of respect for your opinions Roger and I truly hope you're right about this, but I respectfully disagree. I really think people are under-estimating the intellegence of the people who are seeking information about hypnosis and reading the Mayo article on-line.

In my opinion the belief that all publicity is good publicity is a sacred cow because it ignores the distinction between "positive bad publicity" and" NEGATIVE bad publicity"

Examples: Paris Hilton gets "positive" bad publicity and it keeps her in the public eye - on the other hand Tiger Woods is damn near in ruins because of "negative" bad publicity and former NYC Governor Elliott Spitzer had to resign in disgrace when he was exposed as client #9 for a shady "escort" service

Knowing this, corporations and celebs welcome positive bad publicity and pay huge amounts of money to PR agents to protect them from negative bad publicity- In my opinion the Mayo hit piece was intentionally written to give us negative bad publicity while promoting hypnotherapists who are also licensed health care providers.

FYI- Several years ago IMDHA member Dr Michael Smith pointed out the we can always cut and paste what we like from articles on hypnosis and put a "According to" in front of or at the end of our snippet and make it work for us during a discussion on this subject on the IMDHA Mentoring Group and I thought and continue to think it's great advice, but it won't help with people reading the article on-line...

Michael E.

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Honestly - I doubt anyone read beyond the first page.
Michael Ellner said:

Roger,

Asking what they think is not enough... Ask them if they would use the Mayo guidelines, if they were actually going to be selecting a hypnotherapist or hypnosis practitioner after reading it... This gift is a Trojan horse --

Warmest regards,
Michael E.

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Out of curiosity I emailed this article to 3 family members and 3 friends, none of whom as far as I know have ever had a hypnosis session. Their knowledge of hypnosis is what I would consider to be that of the average person on the street - pretty limited. I asked them to read the article and let me know what they thought. Every one of them emailed back that they were "impressed that Mayo Clinic was endorsing hypnosis" and that I must be really excited by the article.
This is certainly an unscientific and very limited "poll" - but I am wondering if those of us who perhaps know a bit more on the subject that most people saw the flaws, but maybe we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. What do you think?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on December 22, 2009 at 7:56pm

Hey Michael,
When I first read this article I hit the roof. After my rant I showed it to a few people and their response was "WOW" - that is really great. I was puzzled by their response so I emailed it to 6 people and got similar responses. The past two days I have been handing copies to friends and clients - they all "read" it and thought I should be excited that Mayo was supporting hypnosis. I posted it here and on the IMDHA site purposefully without my opinion on this article to see if I it was just me who was upset by this. So, thank you all for for your reactions - I'm not alone!

I think Michael you and I have a bit a separation on how the average person on the street would read this. Because of my unscientific poll with people I know, I wondering if they read beyond the first couple of paragraphs. You seem more sure that people on the street will read it in depth and understand that we would take issue to this article. I'm just not so sure they understand the "Licensed" issue. It could also be that because I am a counselor and In Washington we do have Registration for hypnotherapists its a non-issue for the people I have shown it to since they all know me.

I'm glad you raised the sacred cow issue on bad publicity - I have always struggled with that one.

Thanks for your thoughts on this everyone.
Roger

Michael Ellner said:

I have a great deal of respect for your opinions Roger and I truly hope you're right about this, but I respectfully disagree. I really think people are under-estimating the intellegence of the people who are seeking information about hypnosis and reading the Mayo article on-line.

In my opinion the belief that all publicity is good publicity is a sacred cow because it ignores the distinction between "positive bad publicity" and" NEGATIVE bad publicity"

Examples: Paris Hilton gets "positive" bad publicity and it keeps her in the public eye - on the other hand Tiger Woods is damn near in ruins because of "negative" bad publicity and former NYC Governor Elliott Spitzer had to resign in disgrace when he was exposed as client #9 for a shady "escort" service

Knowing this, corporations and celebs welcome positive bad publicity and pay huge amounts of money to PR agents to protect them from negative bad publicity- In my opinion the Mayo hit piece was intentionally written to give us negative bad publicity while promoting hypnotherapists who are also licensed health care providers.

FYI- Several years ago IMDHA member Dr Michael Smith pointed out the we can always cut and paste what we like from articles on hypnosis and put a "According to" in front of or at the end of our snippet and make it work for us during a discussion on this subject on the IMDHA Mentoring Group and I thought and continue to think it's great advice, but it won't help with people reading the article on-line...

Michael E.

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Honestly - I doubt anyone read beyond the first page.
Michael Ellner said:

Roger,

Asking what they think is not enough... Ask them if they would use the Mayo guidelines, if they were actually going to be selecting a hypnotherapist or hypnosis practitioner after reading it... This gift is a Trojan horse --

Warmest regards,
Michael E.

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Out of curiosity I emailed this article to 3 family members and 3 friends, none of whom as far as I know have ever had a hypnosis session. Their knowledge of hypnosis is what I would consider to be that of the average person on the street - pretty limited. I asked them to read the article and let me know what they thought. Every one of them emailed back that they were "impressed that Mayo Clinic was endorsing hypnosis" and that I must be really excited by the article.
This is certainly an unscientific and very limited "poll" - but I am wondering if those of us who perhaps know a bit more on the subject that most people saw the flaws, but maybe we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. What do you think?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on December 23, 2009 at 4:13am

Ah Ha,

I see the light! I was not thinking or talking about the man or women on the street - I agree we need not be concerned about the average reader.

I was thinking about people who are actually inquiring about hypnotherapy. -- These folks are likely to read the whole article and because its the Mayo Clinic they are likely to seek hypnotherapists who are licensed health care providers. Trust your gut!

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Hey Michael,
When I first read this article I hit the roof. After my rant I showed it to a few people and their response was "WOW" - that is really great. I was puzzled by their response so I emailed it to 6 people and got similar responses. The past two days I have been handing copies to friends and clients - they all "read" it and thought I should be excited that Mayo was supporting hypnosis. I posted it here and on the IMDHA site purposefully without my opinion on this article to see if I it was just me who was upset by this. So, thank you all for for your reactions - I'm not alone!

I think Michael you and I have a bit a separation on how the average person on the street would read this. Because of my unscientific poll with people I know, I wondering if they read beyond the first couple of paragraphs. You seem more sure that people on the street will read it in depth and understand that we would take issue to this article. I'm just not so sure they understand the "Licensed" issue. It could also be that because I am a counselor and In Washington we do have Registration for hypnotherapists its a non-issue for the people I have shown it to since they all know me.

I'm glad you raised the sacred cow issue on bad publicity - I have always struggled with that one.

Thanks for your thoughts on this everyone.
Roger

Michael Ellner said:

I have a great deal of respect for your opinions Roger and I truly hope you're right about this, but I respectfully disagree. I really think people are under-estimating the intellegence of the people who are seeking information about hypnosis and reading the Mayo article on-line.

In my opinion the belief that all publicity is good publicity is a sacred cow because it ignores the distinction between "positive bad publicity" and" NEGATIVE bad publicity"

Examples: Paris Hilton gets "positive" bad publicity and it keeps her in the public eye - on the other hand Tiger Woods is damn near in ruins because of "negative" bad publicity and former NYC Governor Elliott Spitzer had to resign in disgrace when he was exposed as client #9 for a shady "escort" service

Knowing this, corporations and celebs welcome positive bad publicity and pay huge amounts of money to PR agents to protect them from negative bad publicity- In my opinion the Mayo hit piece was intentionally written to give us negative bad publicity while promoting hypnotherapists who are also licensed health care providers.

FYI- Several years ago IMDHA member Dr Michael Smith pointed out the we can always cut and paste what we like from articles on hypnosis and put a "According to" in front of or at the end of our snippet and make it work for us during a discussion on this subject on the IMDHA Mentoring Group and I thought and continue to think it's great advice, but it won't help with people reading the article on-line...

Michael E.

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Honestly - I doubt anyone read beyond the first page.
Michael Ellner said:

Roger,

Asking what they think is not enough... Ask them if they would use the Mayo guidelines, if they were actually going to be selecting a hypnotherapist or hypnosis practitioner after reading it... This gift is a Trojan horse --

Warmest regards,
Michael E.

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Out of curiosity I emailed this article to 3 family members and 3 friends, none of whom as far as I know have ever had a hypnosis session. Their knowledge of hypnosis is what I would consider to be that of the average person on the street - pretty limited. I asked them to read the article and let me know what they thought. Every one of them emailed back that they were "impressed that Mayo Clinic was endorsing hypnosis" and that I must be really excited by the article.
This is certainly an unscientific and very limited "poll" - but I am wondering if those of us who perhaps know a bit more on the subject that most people saw the flaws, but maybe we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. What do you think?

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Permalink Reply by Kent Fullarton on December 23, 2009 at 10:51am

I went to Mayo's' online magazine a searched hypnosis. The few articles I read were very amateurish. Not at all well done, researched, written. The only thing to recommend them was that the author had a nice picture. I had expected more from their reputation.

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