Myths about the Unconscious Mind

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on January 22, 2010 at 4:44pm

Hey- Hey -- If we're gonna quote Ludwig:

"There are remarks that sow and remarks that reap."

Speaking of Myths about the Unconscious Mind -- Whatcha think Wittgenstein had in mind:
"Man has to awaken to wonder - and so perhaps do peoples. Science is a way of sending him to sleep again."

Question: What do you think Ludwig meant by "awaken" and "sleep again" -- Huh, huh, huh?

Michael E.

Ian Jay said:

Adrian

It's the 'Bread and Circus' theory of mine coming into play. Do try to keep up, old chap! ;-)

Ian

Adrian Tannock said:

Sorry, thought we'd started a word-association game, because we've certainly stopped answering questions.
Thanks, Adrian

Adrian Tannock said:

"Live long and prosper."
- Mr. Spock, USS Enterprise(NCC-1701), Stardate 47155

(only kidding ;-)

Doc Regal said:

"You know more than you think you do."
- Dr Benjamin Spock, The Common Sense Book of Baby and Child Care © 1946

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Permalink Reply by Pattie Freeman CH.t, MST on January 22, 2010 at 10:01pm

I have been ask if the uncounscious mind is there to help why does it harm us with bad habits, phobias etc...

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Permalink Reply by Paul Dennehy (Paul Dee) on February 3, 2010 at 4:15pm

Teue. Fear can sometimes prevent us from showing ourselves.

Ian Jay said:

I see fear as one of the many empty boxes in the new born baby's innate emotional warehouse. We are born without fears, but with the capability to learn and store them. As it is with all our emotions. The purpose of fear is survival, nothing more - nothing less.

Ian

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on February 3, 2010 at 8:07pm

It is because the reactive part of the unconscious mind, the part that handles things like that, has been programmed by US to react that way. It has no intellect to do anything else.

Pattie Freeman Ch.t, said:

I have been ask if the uncounscious mind is there to help why does it harm us with bad habits, phobias etc...

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Permalink Reply by Jan Krüger on February 4, 2010 at 1:56pm

I don't support the model of conscious vs. unconscious mind either. I believe that there can't be a completely accurate model of the mind... but I think if you're going to use a model at all, you can do better than the conscious/unconscious mind one. And it just occurred to me that you can probably do better than John's model, too. Don't worry, I'll back that up.

The big problem is that that thing that just occurred to me was actually a big bunch of ideas, a huge mess basically, and it will take a LOT of contemplation to weed out the stupid parts and refine it down, and probably a fair bit of writing to share what remains. So I won't actually be able to post it for quite a while. I can try to get the ball rolling, though... perhaps some other people will get interesting ideas, too, while I work through mine.

John, have you thought about how creativity (in the broadest sense possible) interacts with and fits into your model? That idea was basically what started the... well, whatever it is I've got in my head now.

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on February 4, 2010 at 4:41pm

As a matter of fact, yes. In my model, creativity lies in all three minds. The judgmental, analytical, and reactive minds. The judgmental mind because how we feel greatly influences what we create, and the analytical mind because it is required to figure out how to make the creation work, and the reactive mind that provides the existing macros (learned programmed reactions) to work with.

Example: Writing a song. The music and/or lyrics must convey the feeling we want to express, the mood we want to set, and the direction we want it to go, the tempo we will use, etc. Yet; it must flow well and be structured correctly in order to do so. The imagination also plays a significant part in that we use its ability to complete things to make connections that spark the creative ideas. Playing a musical instrument (once you have learned how to play) is a trance state itself.

I hope that makes sense, the way that I said it.
John

P.S. I maybe can identify with what you have going on in your head right now, I had that several years ago and it was the birth of my model. An epiphany I believe it is called ;)


Jan Krüger said:

I don't support the model of conscious vs. unconscious mind either. I believe that there can't be a completely accurate model of the mind... but I think if you're going to use a model at all, you can do better than the conscious/unconscious mind one. And it just occurred to me that you can probably do better than John's model, too. Don't worry, I'll back that up.
The big problem is that that thing that just occurred to me was actually a big bunch of ideas, a huge mess basically, and it will take a LOT of contemplation to weed out the stupid parts and refine it down, and probably a fair bit of writing to share what remains. So I won't actually be able to post it for quite a while. I can try to get the ball rolling, though... perhaps some other people will get interesting ideas, too, while I work through mine.
John, have you thought about how creativity (in the broadest sense possible) interacts with and fits into your model? That idea was basically what started the... well, whatever it is I've got in my head now.

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