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NHS say Hypnosis could save them money...but only Doctors, Dentists, Nurses, Psychologists, Physiotherapists etc should treat people
It is great that after years of poo-poo-ing hypnotherapy, then accepting it for IBS that the Royal Society of Medicine are saying that hypnosis works for depression, pain and IBS, according to Monday's Daily Telegraph:
And the president of that association's hypnosis and psychosomatic medicine section (Mrs Jacky Owens) is more than suggesting that 'lay' hypnotherapists should be put out to grass - to quote the newspaper "If doctors were able to refer patients to properly trained hypnotherapists it would save the NHS a great deal of money" and she was reported to have said "making hypnosis a standard part of NHS treatment would also mean that vulnerable people would be less likely to turn to 'unqualified practitioners' whose work was not properly monitored" further she added that "The group fears non-medically trained hypnotists often lack the understanding of the diseases their patients have and can cause real harm" and that "We need doctors, dentists, nurses, psychologists, physiotherapists, radiotherapists the whole gamut of people who treat patients - trained in hypnosis"
No 1 Re IBS it is a disorder not a disease - I am not a clinician Mrs Owen, but I can get that right..and you don't actually 'cure' diseases by hypnosis/hypnotherapy, you have a positive impact on the mind-body link therefore the mind to immune and endocrine pathways and the effects of 'stressors' so you help people cope with the symptoms of chronic disease and the way it affects their quality of life and perception of pain...
No 2 Most hypnotherapists are 'properly' trained these days - and actually minimum standards of training can be applied by statute
No 3 Doctors doing hypnotherapy in 10 minute GP sessions? (Shurely shome mishtake - Ed) - and considering that their pay has increased in real term by 150%+ in the past 30 years (even more than lawyers and accountants) that is not particularly cost effective...
The NHS have generally and historically dismissed hypnotherapy as a circus trick (apart from recently IBS and also Henxy's forward looking PCT at Sandwell) and now it is being suggested that clinicians some of whom can hardly write legibly (any one tried to read their doctor's handwriting?) should be stringing together complex linguistic patterns - now that is a big ask!
Having decried us and suggested that we are charlatans with snake oil and mirrors - I love it that now there is increasing scientific evidence for the efficacy of hypnosis the medical profession want to have it all for themselves....
Grrrrr...rant...rant!!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Henxy on -
Hey Mr M!
I do love that you're so clear on what is a disorder and not a disease! ;-P
We're back to that preciousness and 'us and them' rubbish here. Properly trained does not have to mean medical. It has to mean thorough, rigorous, stands up to questioning, ethical, moral, professional. None of these is unique to medicine/HCPs. Interesting that the society is providing said training...
I am highly-qualified at reading dr's writing (should have a masters in it!), so if ever you want a hand...
Did you see the BBC breakfast slot on this yesterday? They had a mousey nursey hypnotherapist (NOT me!), and the usual GP, Rosemary Leonard who slates anything and everything that she doesn't earn a fee for. She spends so much time on TV talking about being a GP that she can't have any time to BE a GP! She also implied that the 'hour' that a hypnotherapist gets with a patient is what makes the difference, and she has 'less than 10 minutes'. Placebo effect by any other name?! But hey, let's give her credence because she's a doctor and we're mere mortals. How about gaining some experience of hypno and then judging?! And the rudeness of her to say she'd rather learn to play tennis!
The GP pay thing you cite isn't entirely fair- their income is the business's income, and not just their pay. They weren't paid awfully well for all the hours they did (like hospital bods), then somehow, out of hours care was removed from the contract, the money was hiked up big stylee, but noone noticed the absence of out of hours... So then the government tried to get them to work out of hours for free! No brainer if you're a GP!
I had a copy of a letter about a patient I had seen once... and not had the time to hypnotise, due to all the paperwork I have to do at first appointment, from the referrer to someone else involved in their care... it said 'hypnotherapy hasn't helped with [their] symptoms, as obviously it would not, but [their] anxiety has decreased'. WAAAHH!
Don't worry, Mr M. I am certain that insufficient numbers of HCPs will have any interest in hypno, let alone any prowess in it.
Their loss! X
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Permalink Reply by Duncan Murray on -
Hey Henxy
Disorder/Disease - somebody drummed that one into me Henxy!
I was just imagining my GP doing hypno on me...AARRRGGGHHH! What an authoritarian experience that would be! 'You can stop doing....because it's bad for you and costs the NHS money'...what a lovely therapeutic approach that would be - actually they would like to see me burned at the stake for witchcraft probably being a very religious practice...
I know that very few clinicians will probably want to do hypno, probably because they have been told it is all smoke and mirrors and has no scientific basis - I just got wound up by Mrs Owen's darned precociousness, attitude and complacency as its efficacy and the scientific evidence for hypno mounts up...
- Did you do a masters in hieroglyphics or was it squinting and guess-work?
Breakfast TV Henxy - far too busy for that! I have to get up and do stuff (what I don't know!!)
Anyway the point being made was 'bandwagon' and 'jumping on' after years of derision by clinicians - I actually wish they had spent the energy in ensuring that interested 'lay-people' were trained in an ethical (etc) way that they were happy with and were involved in ensuring minimum quality standards... so that 'lay-practitioners' weren't perceived as a danger by the medical bods (who used to be barber surgeons!)...
I think it is rather unfortunate that a clinician has responded in in this way rather than supporting the wider respected professional hypnotherapy bodies...strange really that the 'NHS' CAMS Directory includes hypnos from certain bodies...oh well!
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Permalink Reply by Henxy on
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Loving the pun though... 'pooh-poohing' became 'poo-pooing' for IBS! ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Henxy on
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It was years of translating/guessing WTF surgeons had written in the notes that made me who I am today! ;-)
You think it's bad now? Just wait until the GPs get the budget: 'you're costing ME money!'
Fret not, Mr M. The derision is still very much alive and kicking, even in 'enlightened' Sandwell :-(
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Permalink Reply by Duncan Murray on
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I would say I 'aim-to-please' but that would be taking scatology too far for the delicacies of this forum!!
Henxy said:
Loving the pun though... 'pooh-poohing' became 'poo-pooing' for IBS! ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Duncan Murray on
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And maybe the derision will be the saviour of the 'lay' practitioner as no MD wants to be derided by their peers by actually looking to the mind-body rather than the peddling of The Drug Co.s..so maybe fair point Henxy!
If only it had been in the 'Grauniad' I would have read it as a typo - but in the 'Get-a-Laugh' it was in the 'serious news pages' not the funnies!
Hmmm - I do wonder if the GPs will have a slight case of 'money-dismorphia' and see it as their own???
Henxy said:It was years of translating/guessing WTF surgeons had written in the notes that made me who I am today! ;-)
You think it's bad now? Just wait until the GPs get the budget: 'you're costing ME money!'
Fret not, Mr M. The derision is still very much alive and kicking, even in 'enlightened' Sandwell :-(
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Permalink Reply by Henxy on
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Young man, that's it. STOPPIT with the 'MD' thang. They do not exist in the UK!
They're not allowed to have the drug company thing either- the ABPI is so concerned that drs would/could be swayed to prescribe something purely based on the freebie sandwich, pen or post-it that they've banned it!
I had a lovely conversation with my favourite gastroenterologist yesterday. When I was saying I fear for my vulnerable patients who couldn't afford hypno privately if my service is stopped, he said 'pity the doubters, because they don't have the gift of sight that we do. They are stuck in a bad place, and we are lucky enough to be set free to see that there are different ways of helping people, all of which work'.
Hurrah for people like him, who keep me (vaguely) sane.
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Permalink Reply by Henxy on
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You'd be rather talented, and I'd have to ask for a demo! ;-)
Duncan Murray said:I would say I 'aim-to-please' but that would be taking scatology too far for the delicacies of this forum!!
Henxy said:Loving the pun though... 'pooh-poohing' became 'poo-pooing' for IBS! ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Duncan Murray on
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Ah Henxy
Thanks for the 'Young man' compliment!! I haven't been called that for a while apart from by myopic septogenarians!
I was translating for those across the pond - maybe I should stop reading Joe Roberts' rather funny 'Talkin' Texan' guide to translating Texan to spoken English...
...but MBBS is a bit of a mouthful! And yes I am aware of the ABPI thingy...but the point was more one on new drugs and the real efficacy of them/the clinical trials that are internalised by the drug cos and therefore the sometimes spurious claims made...and how with 10 mins at a GP's that pills are overly relied on...for symptoms... rather than causes!
The gastroenterologist is indeed enlightened...have you any spare ones you could export down to 'Dampshire' ?
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Permalink Reply by Duncan Murray on
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Demo??!! - Now then, now then, I'd have to charge for that and it wouldn't be a pretty sight!!! ;-)
Henxy said:
You'd be rather talented, and I'd have to ask for a demo! ;-)
Duncan Murray said:I would say I 'aim-to-please' but that would be taking scatology too far for the delicacies of this forum!!
Henxy said:Loving the pun though... 'pooh-poohing' became 'poo-pooing' for IBS! ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Henxy on
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Soon, you'll be removing vowels from words in order to translate for those across the pond! ;-)
Is 'dr' REALLY so hard to write?! It's just as many/few characters! I'm sure they have them across the pond! ;-)
The issue with meds over other stuff, as it is with my service, is that if a med does control symptoms, the patient presents less often, and hey presto! Everyone's happy... ish. My service takes time, and therefore money, and addresses way in excess of what the patient has been referred for, but as they weren't referred for confidence, well-being, general health etc etc, I don't get any credit for that (in fact I get told off at times!).
He's MY gastro. I'm not letting him go! Sadly, he doesn't get the respect he deserves from colleagues, because they think he's barking mad. The fact that he gets great results from his truly holistic approach doesn't seem to figure...
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Permalink Reply by Henxy on
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Turned into Jimmy Saville?!
Duncan Murray said:Demo??!! - Now then, now then, I'd have to charge for that and it wouldn't be a pretty sight!!! ;-)
Henxy said:You'd be rather talented, and I'd have to ask for a demo! ;-)
Duncan Murray said:I would say I 'aim-to-please' but that would be taking scatology too far for the delicacies of this forum!!
Henxy said:Loving the pun though... 'pooh-poohing' became 'poo-pooing' for IBS! ;-)
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