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NLP Training and...
I need your personal and expert advice about something that just happened to me... since I registered for the NLP Practitioner training certification and when I went Saturday morning to help with registration, I kind of lost trust in this person... and I need your help to help me decide how is this persons credibility is...
OK, here is the full story, Last week I have received an email from an NLP meetup group that I have been involved about an NLP training for the amount of $1500, I thought it was great, but can't come up with this kind of money right now, so I said to myself, maybe next time...
Shortly after that email, I receive another email that went of course to all members with this message to a specific person, who is already an NLP practitioner who offered to help.
It said: If you'd like to attend the actual course, I can give it to you for the incredible CRAZY price of $197.00, Yes, the FULL 12-day certification. Interested?
So I jumped on this offer and I said, M I hallucinating or is this correct the $197.00 for the FULL 12-day certification, and If Yes, Hell I am Interested... and of course all members emailed with the same request... lol isn't it...
Then we all received this message: Sorry all, that was meant to be for ___ only! He has completed his basic and master practitioner courses so I give certified students a killer deal to attend and help out with training. Though because you want to attend so badly ill make YOU a killer deal also. Call my cell 000000000000. Lets get you certified!
So here I am calling, we talk, I get a good deal, 999, but don't tell anyone....well 999 is a good number, so hey why not, and we agreed on payment as well, really an attractive offer... so far so good, I am excited, very happy and early as was asked to come and help, since I got a good deal, and why not, I am at the training center the next day to help set up the class, and I was assigned to do the registration, so yes, I collected the money.... and Guess what?
Everybody paid $197.00, only few paid a little more, like $500, $700 and $995, and I got the killer deal, don't tell anyone for $999... so I am now asking each and every one, are you a currant student of this organization? do you have any background training? the answer is, The only NLP they knew is from the meet-up, just the way I was involved...
And I kid you not, I was analyzing the whole thing, since I was doing the registration, I decide to wait with my payment and talk to him abut it....
Funny, one of the lady got in even for FREE, because she refereed her two friends for $197 each... and this was her email response to the killer deal of $197.00... That is what she wrote... Yes, I'm wondering if I'm hallucinating, as well?
$197 for the entire course?
Or am I missing something?
Button line, they all got it for $197 except few that didn't...
So I have talked to him and he basically ignored me, saying well let me know if you are paying what we agreed, or I will take you out of the meet-up list? Funny I was so excited and I did enjoy the training, I came home and wrote this on his meet-up: “ xxx is great and Insightful with all the tools that can transform your life, looking forward for next week ”
During the training when he was teaching, what did strike most was the subject "Credibility", he kept bringing that up as how important it is for us to be credible... and of course it kept triggering the fact that he lied to me about the killer deal, when everybody else got the deal...
I still want to go to the training but not for 999 anymore, and it seems that now he plays the game, as we have agreed that this is how much I will pay, I did emailed him and said, Yes, I have agreed to this price knowing that the deal was for one person, and since he asked me to register everyone and now I know the truth, I should not pay the 999
So I want your opinion please, My understanding is like that, Doreen he is not credible and forget about this training, other part of me says, well it is only 999 and he did screwed up, but maybe the training will be a good thing for me anyways... other part of me says, well, if he is not going to charge you $197 like he did with everyone else, turn your back and move on, even if you could learn a little more about NLP, Since he was not fair enough to handle this situation in a professional and a honorable way...
By the way, I did take it very hard, that same night I had few panic attacks for keeping this disappointment to myself, and for not standing up for myself and facing it right then, it really bothered me, now i am OK, and I still want to go to the training, just want to hear your opinion, so I can make up my mind as if I should go or should not.
Respectfully, Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
OK, here is the full story, Last week I have received an email from an NLP meetup group that I have been involved about an NLP training for the amount of $1500, I thought it was great, but can't come up with this kind of money right now, so I said to myself, maybe next time...
Shortly after that email, I receive another email that went of course to all members with this message to a specific person, who is already an NLP practitioner who offered to help.
It said: If you'd like to attend the actual course, I can give it to you for the incredible CRAZY price of $197.00, Yes, the FULL 12-day certification. Interested?
So I jumped on this offer and I said, M I hallucinating or is this correct the $197.00 for the FULL 12-day certification, and If Yes, Hell I am Interested... and of course all members emailed with the same request... lol isn't it...
Then we all received this message: Sorry all, that was meant to be for ___ only! He has completed his basic and master practitioner courses so I give certified students a killer deal to attend and help out with training. Though because you want to attend so badly ill make YOU a killer deal also. Call my cell 000000000000. Lets get you certified!
So here I am calling, we talk, I get a good deal, 999, but don't tell anyone....well 999 is a good number, so hey why not, and we agreed on payment as well, really an attractive offer... so far so good, I am excited, very happy and early as was asked to come and help, since I got a good deal, and why not, I am at the training center the next day to help set up the class, and I was assigned to do the registration, so yes, I collected the money.... and Guess what?
Everybody paid $197.00, only few paid a little more, like $500, $700 and $995, and I got the killer deal, don't tell anyone for $999... so I am now asking each and every one, are you a currant student of this organization? do you have any background training? the answer is, The only NLP they knew is from the meet-up, just the way I was involved...
And I kid you not, I was analyzing the whole thing, since I was doing the registration, I decide to wait with my payment and talk to him abut it....
Funny, one of the lady got in even for FREE, because she refereed her two friends for $197 each... and this was her email response to the killer deal of $197.00... That is what she wrote... Yes, I'm wondering if I'm hallucinating, as well?
$197 for the entire course?
Or am I missing something?
Button line, they all got it for $197 except few that didn't...
So I have talked to him and he basically ignored me, saying well let me know if you are paying what we agreed, or I will take you out of the meet-up list? Funny I was so excited and I did enjoy the training, I came home and wrote this on his meet-up: “ xxx is great and Insightful with all the tools that can transform your life, looking forward for next week ”
During the training when he was teaching, what did strike most was the subject "Credibility", he kept bringing that up as how important it is for us to be credible... and of course it kept triggering the fact that he lied to me about the killer deal, when everybody else got the deal...
I still want to go to the training but not for 999 anymore, and it seems that now he plays the game, as we have agreed that this is how much I will pay, I did emailed him and said, Yes, I have agreed to this price knowing that the deal was for one person, and since he asked me to register everyone and now I know the truth, I should not pay the 999
So I want your opinion please, My understanding is like that, Doreen he is not credible and forget about this training, other part of me says, well it is only 999 and he did screwed up, but maybe the training will be a good thing for me anyways... other part of me says, well, if he is not going to charge you $197 like he did with everyone else, turn your back and move on, even if you could learn a little more about NLP, Since he was not fair enough to handle this situation in a professional and a honorable way...
By the way, I did take it very hard, that same night I had few panic attacks for keeping this disappointment to myself, and for not standing up for myself and facing it right then, it really bothered me, now i am OK, and I still want to go to the training, just want to hear your opinion, so I can make up my mind as if I should go or should not.
Respectfully, Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
Tags: NLP, Practitione, Training, certification, credibility, meetup, mind
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on -
HI Doreen,
Interesting story. and a bit of an ethical as well as a preactical dilemma for you.
I have a client arriving very shortly, but will think about this and give yu a considered response later today.
Thanks for not disclosing the details of trainer, and 999
Love and hugs,
Fable
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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on -
Thank You Fable, and as to your comment for not disclosing the details of the trainer, well I like to feel that I am more professional in respecting peoples privacy, It is important to me to do so, after all it could be a stupid mistake on his part, and I don't want to be responsible for cutting him away from his bread and butter, if you know what I mean.
I truly beleive in this statement: "Don't do unto others what you don't want done to you." If a person want to be loved, or to attract love, or to experience love, all they need to do is to be willing to do the same for others.. Maybe I am too naive lol, but I beleive the more good a person does, the more love they give, the more good and love will come into their lives.
Respectfully, Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on -
Doreen, I can see where you would be upset ... this has the appearance of a bate and switch routine -- airlines do something very similar in the manner they run their websites, offering limited bargain seats so you go to their site, then those seats are never available, and people pay different prices based on when and how they buy -- but your situation seems a bit questionable to me, almost as if you have found the "timeshare sales" of NLP instruction. Too good to be true schemes normally play on your inner sense of greed - that feeling of getting something for nothing, and when they happen to you, you tend to not want to walk away. There is an old con scheme called the Pigeon Drop that works on the same premise, and many con games play to your inner sense of greed (we all have it).
Ask yourself why would you want to continue the training at this point? Consider your inner feelings, look at your motive, what is your goal? And look for an honest answer within yourself. Is the price still too good to be true? Are you attracted to the idea of "getting something for nothing", meaning you are allowing him to play on your inner greed for his own financial gain? What is your motive -- getting the education, staying in good graces with your MeetUp group, is this person's certification worth having, are you willing to pay just anyone to have a certificate to hang on your wall? I have seen many of those classes offered for several years now, and some run several thousand dollars, but I don't know that they are any better than others.
Check out Gary De Rodriguez. I am sure he has a website somewhere. His prices seemed reasonable last time I looked. I have not personnally taken classes from him, but the person I learned from speaks very highly of him.
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Permalink Reply by Victoria Hancock-Ford on -
All sounds very unethical to me, but that's just my opinion. I would recommend you 'go inside' and ask yourself how you really feel about it! Do you really want to be 'trained' by this person? There are a number of trainers out in the field that are passionate about their work and will give good, sound training without it being tainted by such 'negative' energy. If you are familiar with EFT perhaps you can do some self testing on whether or not this is the 'right' person to guide you into this type of work. I feel 'trust' should be an important part of a trainer-trainee relationship...it seems to be sadly lacking in this scenario! In all my training I have been fortunate to maintain a good 'working' relationship with my trainers and felt supported for many months after (actually years as I am still in-touch with some today).
Incidentally, $197.00 seems incredibly cheap for 12-day certification in NLP! I have only ever seen NLP available for FREE if you attended the 3-day seminar and bought all the books that were required to complete the course (and I'm pretty sure these ranged somewhere between $300-$500 (aus) but perhaps this converts to the same sort of price for American dollars! Tempting but I haven't yet succumbed - too busy paying a Grad Dip certification at $500 a month, lol!!!
Anyway, good luck following your inner guidance! Wishing you well,
Regards, Victoria
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Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on
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Hi Doreen,
I'm sorry you were so upset about this. I can understand why you felt jerked around.
This sounds like it could be nothing more than marketing ineptitude (giving the trainer the benefit of the doubt.)
The truth is, anyone can charge anything they want for their time and effort, according to the law of supply and demand. In some industries, price fluctuations are constant (for example, on any given airline flight, there may be 20 different fares for the same seats. Hotel rooms are sold the same way.) In my own business, I don't have a fixed price list--I have a "bottom line" that I won't go below, but if I'm really busy my prices tend to go up, and when I'm not busy at all, they go down.
"Early-bird" pricing is almost standard when it comes to special events. Event organizers have a lot of non-refundable, up-front costs they have to cover to get an event off the ground, so they're willing to take the first batch of registrations at a lower rate to cover those costs. (Having an early bird deadline usually encourages people to get their registrations in fast.) Once the event venue is paid for, later registrations cover marketing costs, materials, etc. The last few people to register may represent the event organizer's profit margins.
Those are the facts of life when it comes to special events and the laws of supply and demand. Even the HypnoSummit has three different price points, and I'm sure some people complained that they had to pay $175 when early birds paid $99.
There's absolutely nothing unethical about charging different prices to different people. What is sounds like to me is that the event organizer isn't very savvy when it comes to communicating his price points (again, giving him the benefit of the doubt.) His communication about his price points may have been unethical (lying to people is just stupid, in addition to being unethical) but he has the right to charge whatever the market will bear for his services.
I really think this is an example of what happens when amateurs do their own marketing. The negative publicity this person may get could cost him a lot more than I would have charged to do a professional marketing campaign.
Kathleen
Client, HypnoFan, Hypnotic Marketer
@KathleenHanover on Twitter
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Permalink Reply by Leshem Yosef on -
hi Doreen
I my self would not be able to receive knowledge from people I'm not trust and respect
you don't need to be in the dark
you deserve to be explained and you have the right to get answers
don't go there if you not sure you are going to have fun and fill the joy of growing in the professional and personal levels
look in your heart and ask your self if you want it and if you fill you can be happy with the course and if not don't sell your self to the "devil"[ money considerations ]
its your life and your decision to make them good
you can make it right
Good luck!
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Permalink Reply by Susan French on -
I'm sorry you got so badly "jerked around" as Kathleen put it. If it is who I think it is, all I can say is that I'm not surprised.
If you want to find a training on DVD for about $500 and do it together and split it, let me know. I've been looking for awhile. Wil Horton has a good one and so do the Andreas' (Steve and Connie Rae).
I have a bunch of books by the Andreas'. "Heart of the Mind," "Change your Mind and Keep the Change" are the two I've learned the most from. It would be good to go through it with someone in a methodical way. They have a very clear way of showing 6-step Reframe, Visual Squash and a bunch of others.
Personally, I don't find in-person trainings to be much different from DVD trainings. In the final analysis, I prefer reading and then doing hands on. Most trainings, even in person, are nothing more than you would see on a DVD. I think the difference is primarily the excitement of the social contact and hands-on practicing but you don't get any hands-on even in person, usually.
I'm really sorry they pulled such a lousy bait-and-switch con game on you.
Let me know if you want to go over the materials together...for free.
Susan
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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on -
Hello Doreen,
The question, as I see it, is whether you are willing to pay the requested (and agreed upon) price for the education offered. It comes down to perceived value: do you think the training is worth the price you are asked to pay. At one point, you did believe it was worth it...has that changed? Be sure to base your assessment on the product you are buying, not on the price that others might be paying.
You might also ask yourself:
1. Is the value of this item diminished due to the credibility level of the seller?
2. Can I find a similar product elsewhere, at the same or lower cost, without the apparent flakiness attached to it?
3. If the product is excellent and worth the asking price, am I resisting only because of my emotional reaction to the price variances?
4. Is there something that I can do to influence the provider of this product to gain his empathy and inspire him to give me a discount like the others enjoy?
5. Do I believe this is my only opportunity to gain this training? Am I willing to pay not only the monetary price, but also the emotional price to attend?
I wish you the best in making the right choice for yourself!
Regards, Kelley
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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on
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I have a slightly different perspective on this from some others.
I do not think it is to do with the money,
(I am sure Doreen is more than happy
to part with her money,
all other things being equal).
It is to do with integrity,
honesty,
transparancy,
trustworthyness.
I ask you:
if this is ethical salesmanship,
what does it say about the healing dynamic
that is being transmitted ?
Does it postively reek of integrity?
or does it have the stench of dishonesty?
Is it wholesome?
what will it do for you?
what will it do for your clients
if your integrity is compromised,
by being associated with this.?
If it is not wholesome, and integral.
then it is not a healing dynamic,
and that will continue down the line.
do you want to be part to an
unethical healing system?
I am not offering answers,
but asking questions
which I hope will be useful
in helping you make your own best decision
in the light of you best present knowledge
Love and hugs,
Fable
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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on
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Thank you Dennis,
I read your post and I am going to answer you with the most honest way that it is possible.
Yes I understand the appearance of a bate and switch routine such vacations, rentals, hotels and airlines do to run their websites, in regards to their limited bargains.
As to getting my NLP Certification, I thought about it a lot, and Yes, It is too good to be true, I calculated even the 999 to 12 days, 16 hours a week, and it is really a good deal, about $5.20 and hour more or less... logically it worth it, Yes others got it for even cheaper $197.00 for the entire training, which it is Basically FREE... and yes I agree with you that we all play on our inner sense of greed - that feeling of getting something for almost nothing.
And In my case that wasn't the real reasons why I didn't want to pay, because initially I did agreed to pay the 999, and I still think it is a great deal... also It is almost like FREE, but this is not my real concern, my real concern is, if someone act like this instructor did, can I still trust him to by paying the 999 to get my NLP certifications?
The reason I want to walk away is for few good reasons, and the reasons I don't want to walk away is also for a good reason, so I am having a conflict here...
And before I read your post, I have asked myself the same exact questions you have asked me and sleeping on this thought and by posting my discussion, I was able to decide what is the best thing for me to act on.
Ask yourself why would you want to continue the training at this point? I want to have an NLP understandings to add on my knowledge, and even to be better in areas I may need an extra help.
Consider your inner feelings, look at your motive, what is your goal?
My motive is to be able to afford it, my goal is to get the NLP Certification also as a continue education, something I have been interested to know for a quit some time.
And look for an honest answer within yourself. Is the price still too good to be true? YES, The price is too good to be true, and I am not necessarily attracted to the idea of "getting something for nothing", therefore I have decided that no matter how food it sounds, It is not good enough for me, again it does go hand in hand with the way he initially got me to agree for the 999, meaning with his 197 trap...
My motive was strictly to get out of it the continue education, therefore this person certification is no longer worth having, even if it was for Zero Money... I am not sure his certification on my wall will be something I will be proud of...
I have check out Gary De Rodriguez as well as Todd James,they are both grate and credible from all I have herd about them, and I have decided to take care of my financial crisis first before I spend any money at this time, so when I am ready and financially more flexible. I can enjoy my training... In the mean time, many people already offered to help me to get some NLP knowledge, so I will continue with their generous offer and will do self study in the mean time, until I get the right certification to hand on my wall...
Also This specific NLP person tolled us that he took Todd James training and Anthony Robins, and he did say that Todd's training is not as good as his, because he gives people manual and DVDs to learn from then a week later he sees them in a training and just review his manual, not sure if that is true or not, but I think 99% of his resume and success is his wild imagination..
So here I am and thank you so much with your replay...
Respectfully Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on
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Thank you Victoria,
As far as I am concerned, this person lost any credibility with me, and yes, I don't "trust" him as a person, too me it sounds that he is not confident in what he can teach and therefore he is selling himself too short, especially when his resume sounded way too long and impressive...
I do practice EFT and I love it, although I didn't use it with my deception, I think, I just had to write this discussion and as I did, It allowed me to vent out and at the same time it allowed me to make a final decision that I am very happy about...
Respectfully, Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on
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Paul Thank you,
I guess we all respond to fight and flight a little differently, and in the end we are the one who is right with our decision, I beleive that we do have, the same understanding, except the part that I stayed the first day through the training feeling I had a good vibe regardless to what I found out, but now, that I am putting two and two together, everything he was teaching was how he was a better trainer then Todd James, as well as teaching some of Anthony Robins, Richard Bandler and Todd James materials, some did have Richard Bandler quotes or names on it, which I am sure it could be legit...
And the fault was the trainer of course, for whatever reasons, it didn't feel good.
By the way I do teach personal life coach and this is one of the think I don't compromise very easy, I mean all this mind games and dishonesty... I am honest and I expect to be treated with honesty, thats just me.
Respectfully, Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
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