NLP versus Hypnosis

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Daniel Ingle on February 16, 2009 at 8:45am

Very well said and thank you.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Daniel Ingle on February 16, 2009 at 8:51am

You are correct sheila and I am not really to absorbed by what other people think, actually I dont care. I know what works for me and that is not going to change. However I plan on doing a video on this and posting it on the internet about how the 2 different techniques can work togather. In my opinion NLP is hypnosis as far as the definition of altering states of mind.
Thank you for your kind words,
Daniel Ingle

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rick Collingwood on February 16, 2009 at 9:17am

Hi Daniel. I think I may have mis-communicated a little with you in Gils post.
So I will make my position on NLP perfectly clear. I think it is a great adjunct to hypnosis, and certainly the techniques do enhance hypnosis, as hypnotherapy. What debases it in my opinion is all the so called master trainers who offer the 10 day Master Practitioner courses and train the trainer courses etc, for often exhorbitant amounts of money and have attendees walk away believing they are some kind of super therapist withouit really having any previous, further, or real understanding of what else it takes to be a therapist.
I have attended NLP training, and it amused me how the particular trainer all too often attached NLP to Erickson, as if in an attempt, which many do, to ride off his well deserved reputation. Research demonstrates it was a combination of Satir's, Perl's, Bateson's, and Ericksons techniques, that gave Bandler the original concept and then structure. Despite this NLP is all too often passed of as Ericksonian hypnosis, or traditional hypnosis, which it definately is not.
I hope this clarifies my position. NLP is NLP. Hypnosis is hypnosis

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on February 16, 2009 at 9:42am

There are many of us who are not laughing or scoffing at the use of NLP. I find some of the concepts and techniques to be very interesting and useful.

Rather, many of us laugh and scoff at things such as the reliance on pseudo-technical jargon (a strange problem to have in a field which is supposedly full of Master communicators). Even NLP proponents cannot deny that is a crutch used throughout the field. Clearly all that stuff is used to provide an air of scientific legitimacy. There are many useful things which are not "scientifically" proven... but why is there a need to pretend?

Another thing that is laughable are titles like "Master" and "Elite" which are bought and sold as if "selling melons in the marketplace" --- as Yul Brenner as Ramses once said. Those titles are a joke even in "regular" hypnosis field, but more prevalent in NLP, it seems. Nothing wrong with continuing education and training, but come on... actually using those titles is either delusional or a sham. Imagine meeting Erickson in the afterlife (or for that matter, Tony Robbins, who I admire alot)... and introducing yourself as a Master Elite practitioner based on a couple of certification courses. What a joke.

Those things actually devalue what could otherwise be useful. It's like a whole industry has sprung up of people selling "black belts" to each other. Hey, did you "earn" your black belt yet? Just buy this DVD course and get yours today! ^_^

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rick Collingwood on February 16, 2009 at 9:59am

You are a master linguist Grumpy I couldn't have siad it better myself

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Daniel Ingle on February 16, 2009 at 10:16am

I agree that thier are people who abuse NLP and promote it as a cure all for therapist. But in the same token when I was searching for a school to attend that taught Hypnosis, I found That there was alot of buy your certification here classes with no formal training. I am a Master Hypnotist and Instructor of Hypnosis and a NLP trainer and I assure you that I dare not take any of Milton Ericksons acomplishments away from him. He was a very observant Individual and admire him very much. As far as Bandler um well I leave that up to the observer. However when using NLP techniques you alter a persons reality same as in Hypnosis. lets Say for example Im starting a new program and we will call it XYZ. And I tell my client, step to the left, bend over then step to the right and if you do this you will feel better. Client does this and says wow that really works I do feel better. I have assisted them with altering thier reality. Remember There is no difference in Imagination and reality for the purpose of therapy. Client says I believe one arm is longer than the other arm. You measure them and tell him they are the same. client disagree's, its his reality one arm is longer than the other. It sounds to me that you do actually believe in the concept of NLP. but you dont like the way it is promoted. well I have a tendacy to agree with you on that. I have been a full time student for a year,which logs in more hours than any class I have even read about to be Certified in any of the Hypnosis or NLP quailifiers. I have studied under Christopher Devin Hastings and read more material than most. By well known people such as Kevin Hogan, Militon Erickson,Will Horton, Wendi Freisen,Tad James. I am truly sorry that there are people who are exploited out there but that does not actually take away from the actual techniques. By the way I am not trying to change your opinion Im just stating mine.
to your best
Daniel Inge

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Daniel Ingle on February 16, 2009 at 10:47am

Grumpy, you are correct on the promotional side of it and I dont like it any better than anyone else. I dont know how it works in other training facilities but at the one I was at there was added value and knowledge with each step I took. It was not a freebie by any means, I worked hard to obtain my credentials and it wasn't no 10 day class, you can not possibly learn what I have learned in 10 days. But I will say one thing we have a lot of Master Hypnotis on her including me. It is just a title that doesn't mean you are one. I have met DR.'s who i wonder how they made it thru medical school, or phychiatrist that there only answer to a problem is by the drug companies. That does not mean that they havent earned thier titles. It is a perception of each individuals reality. Can we learn from Dvd's, can we learn from Cd's. I personally think we can. How its applied and the cost is up to the person handing it out. I can't tell you how much to charge for hypnosis cd's.
There are less reputable people in every field, you just have to be able to use your good judgement to sort thru them. other wise we wouldnt be having the discussions we are.
To your best,
Daniel Ingle

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on February 16, 2009 at 11:08am

Hi, the all-too-easy and common response is "Oh, there are always some rotten apples."

But what I am saying is that the entire structure is rotten. Any system where an individual can be led to believe that they are a Master and also qualified to train other Masters, after ONE YEAR of study (or less), is a sham in itself.

Either that, or there must not be much to learn about the areas of human neurology, behavior, and consciousness, if those subjects can be Mastered so easily!

Of course there are well-meaning and well-intentioned people in that system who are serious students of the subject. But the main point remains: a system that promotes the delusional charade of Mastery via certification (primarily in the guise of "train the trainer" aka what we used to call a pyramid scheme) is rotten to begin with.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rick Collingwood on February 16, 2009 at 11:12am

Ahhh Daniel, its sounding like we are on the same page.
If you are going to use any modality as a therapist I think it's important that you have a passion for being a therapist and hold the clients resolution first and foremost as the main objective. I'm sure there are a lot of effective and reputable NLP training institutions out there, but I havn't found one in Australia as yet.
Some of the main "Self Promoting" forerunners havn't exactly done themselves any favours either. Bandler sued Grinder, Tad James, or at least his Australian promotors are notorious for hard selling a 3 day $295 course with the upsell into as deep as your pockets or gullibility may be. I still have regular offers for his $10,000 Master Practitioner course end up in my rubbish bin, even after requesting numerous times to be left alone by the Australian organisation, some may call that good marketing, those are the things that peeve me off, and don't do a lot for the reputation of NLP.
I have a policy of never asking a course enquirer for their contact details and I never follow them up. I simply send out the application form and leave it up to them, and I can't remember having a training course with less then 15 students since 2001 it is reputation that fills a course, not hard marketing. As far as buying a hypnosis qualification is concerned, thats just as disreputable and dispicable as what some of the NLP institutions are doing. I must admit over the years I've had a few phone calls offering to pay considerable amounts of money without attending any training. The day I said yes to that is the day I would hang up my hat.
At the end of the day, no matter what modality you use, or what pieces of paper hang on your wall? If you are good at what you do, you probably have a natural affinity for it and will be successful by result orientated word of mouth from your clients. It is effectiveness and results that seperate the players from the stayers. When I first began my practice I found a little gem Geoffrey Cottlers book titled "On Being A Therapist" one of the most valuable books there is to bring it all togeather from a practitioners point of view.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on February 16, 2009 at 1:44pm

I deal with this all of the time as a Medical Hypnosis and Medical-NLP Educator.

Who cares if NLP and Hypnotic theories are NOT evidenced based - A skilled hypnosis or NLP practitioner can use these models and techniques to help people make fast and long term changes and that's what it's all about - Right?

FYI-I teach my students the standard "hypnosis" and NLP mythologies and I introduce them to 21st century mindbody healing mythologies and I share that in my private opinion there is no magic in any freaking model or technique! The magic is in our clients - and we help by inspiring our clients to slip into a possibility mind-set and exciting their imaginations for change...

Just my opinion-

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Nathan Thomas on February 16, 2009 at 6:11pm

I agree, i find the best way to operate is to take the best from all worlds, direct, indirect, NLP, Ericksonian, conversational and everything in between.

Ignoring a field of practice based on narrow mindedness or stubbornness is just foolish and limiting, so i agree entirely with your opening post.

Nathan

http://teenagehypnosis.com

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Daniel Ingle on February 16, 2009 at 6:46pm

Thank you nathan you sound like you are well on your way to being an excellent therapist.
Best to you
Daniel Ingle

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page