Past Life Reggression V.S. The Bible

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on December 1, 2009 at 8:04am

Lee and James K. most probably have a much higher percentage of clients whose issues involve their religious beliefs than I, and by that, I am not inferring that these beliefs cause the issues.

This discussion has made me consider that fact and realize that a significant number of my clients have been persons who have NO spiritual belief system. This may be just one of the reasons they have arrived at the point of desperation and at my office door.

Just musing...Kelley

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Permalink Reply by Lee Pelletier on December 1, 2009 at 8:30am

Kelly, I haven't tracked the percentages, but overall religion plays a small role in my practice. There is a reason why your thought that those with no personal spiritual belief system will sometimes have issues surrounding purpose and meaning. I have known many people with no belief system who were clear in terms of sense of purpose and meaning, so I am not suggesting a 1:1 correlation.

A belief system, for many people, provides a foundation or an anchor point that helps them find stability. At the same time, a lot of people who have belief systems still find themselves adrift. Basically, the bottom line issue is that regardless of our belief systems we have to help our clients in making choices wisely. Wisdom is shown by making good choices. We learn wisdom by learning from our unfortunate choices. That comes from understanding another principle of NLP, "there is no failure, only feedback."

By the way, positive feedback becomes very reinforcing. So much so that partial reinforcement is a very strong force in the development of habits and behaviors. Thus, if a particular approach to our hynpotic work is effective for certain clients, it is easy to "generalize" the part to the whole. We all know, from NLP about "Generalize, Distort and Delete". As you read the discussions on Hynothoughts you will see a great deal of that. I was guided away from over generalizing by what the teacher said in my first sales training experience in 1970 -- when as a guide against generalizing the leader said "All Indians walk in a single file, at least the one I saw did." That thought from Jeffrey Timmons and his team has helped me a lot through the years.

Kelly, I know a lot of what I said has nothing to do with your comment, but it seemed to fit on generalizing. From our prior interactions (anyone who reads your posts will be impressed with your breadth and depth of knowledge, and your thoughtfulness) I know that you adapt well to your clients. I do agree with you that the absence of a belief system, which I call an anchor or foundation, is a factor worth considering. I look forward to the day when clients come to our doors well before desperation sets in. It will be nice when their first words are something other than "I have tried everything else...."

Kelley Woods said:

Lee and James K. most probably have a much higher percentage of clients whose issues involve their religious beliefs than I, and by that, I am not inferring that these beliefs cause the issues.
This discussion has made me consider that fact and realize that a significant number of my clients have been persons who have NO spiritual belief system. This may be just one of the reasons they have arrived at the point of desperation and at my office door.
Just musing...Kelley

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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on December 1, 2009 at 11:27am

Hello Phoenix,
I read your post and thank you for posting it the way you did, and to be honest this discussion is getting out of proportion and sadly it's not promoting hypnotherapy in any way and shape...

All I remember saying this is haven, trying to get some smiles and sense of humor but Instead I got a prayer which I did welcome any ways.

In my opinion we all need to look at ourselves and take one step back from our "ego", and read what Phoenix pointed out, and see how childish we all sound, yes that includes myself.

With all respect, lets be more compassionate and respectful to all here, the world is reading this discussions as well, and what do you think It tels them about us being a role model?

Just my two cents.

Love Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
www.HypnoCruise.comI

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Permalink Reply by Lee Pelletier on December 1, 2009 at 11:49am

You make a good point Doreen. Your posts are thoughtful and uplifting.

As we look toward advancing the profession, you are right that we can best accomplish that by helping one another be better. No matter who we are, we have room to grow as professionals.

I think there is something worth noting in the variety of responses. I cannot help but wonder about the degree to which our attitudes, as expressed in the posts we make on various discussion groups and this or that forum are expressive of how we are with clients as well. It is my experience that as we take things personally or make assumptions as some have on these posts (and Doreen, you have kept the focus on the topic, while at times I have gotten lost in theology), that they are likely to have similar reactions to clients. Even if we think our reactions are well hidden, we have been learning, in our field, that the internal representation we maintain of our client is experienced by them as we work with them.

Doreen Cohanim C.Ht said:

Hello Phoenix,
I read your post and thank you for posting it the way you did, and to be honest this discussion is getting out of proportion and sadly it's not promoting hypnotherapy in any way and shape...

All I remember saying this is haven, trying to get some smiles and sense of humor but Instead I got a prayer which I did welcome any ways.

In my opinion we all need to look at ourselves and take one step back from our "ego", and read what Phoenix pointed out, and see how childish we all sound, yes that includes myself.

With all respect, lets be more compassionate and respectful to all here, the world is reading this discussions as well, and what do you think It tels them about us being a role model?

Just my two cents.

Love Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
www.HypnoCruise.comI

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig on December 1, 2009 at 12:11pm

Doreen and Phoenix--

You're right. It's not very mature of me to bait Peter as I have, and I appreciate both of you reminding us to refocus our efforts for good. I considered a number of other avenues of attack, and then realized that my time was better spent promoting my next workshop!

I have to say that I've come away from this discussion with huge respect for Lee and the organization he represents. It's always a pleasure to meet a true Christian.

Take care, all,

James

Doreen Cohanim C.Ht said:

Hello Phoenix,
I read your post and thank you for posting it the way you did, and to be honest this discussion is getting out of proportion and sadly it's not promoting hypnotherapy in any way and shape...

All I remember saying this is haven, trying to get some smiles and sense of humor but Instead I got a prayer which I did welcome any ways.

In my opinion we all need to look at ourselves and take one step back from our "ego", and read what Phoenix pointed out, and see how childish we all sound, yes that includes myself.

With all respect, lets be more compassionate and respectful to all here, the world is reading this discussions as well, and what do you think It tels them about us being a role model?

Just my two cents.

Love Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
www.HypnoCruise.comI

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on December 1, 2009 at 1:26pm

Thank you for the kind words, Lee. I appreciate it, and I also thank you for the reminder to refrain from generalizing. It's on that list of "to-do's" in my hypno-book, also!

Lee Pelletier said:

Kelly, I haven't tracked the percentages, but overall religion plays a small role in my practice. There is a reason why your thought that those with no personal spiritual belief system will sometimes have issues surrounding purpose and meaning. I have known many people with no belief system who were clear in terms of sense of purpose and meaning, so I am not suggesting a 1:1 correlation.

A belief system, for many people, provides a foundation or an anchor point that helps them find stability. At the same time, a lot of people who have belief systems still find themselves adrift. Basically, the bottom line issue is that regardless of our belief systems we have to help our clients in making choices wisely. Wisdom is shown by making good choices. We learn wisdom by learning from our unfortunate choices. That comes from understanding another principle of NLP, "there is no failure, only feedback."

By the way, positive feedback becomes very reinforcing. So much so that partial reinforcement is a very strong force in the development of habits and behaviors. Thus, if a particular approach to our hynpotic work is effective for certain clients, it is easy to "generalize" the part to the whole. We all know, from NLP about "Generalize, Distort and Delete". As you read the discussions on Hynothoughts you will see a great deal of that. I was guided away from over generalizing by what the teacher said in my first sales training experience in 1970 -- when as a guide against generalizing the leader said "All Indians walk in a single file, at least the one I saw did." That thought from Jeffrey Timmons and his team has helped me a lot through the years.

Kelly, I know a lot of what I said has nothing to do with your comment, but it seemed to fit on generalizing. From our prior interactions (anyone who reads your posts will be impressed with your breadth and depth of knowledge, and your thoughtfulness) I know that you adapt well to your clients. I do agree with you that the absence of a belief system, which I call an anchor or foundation, is a factor worth considering. I look forward to the day when clients come to our doors well before desperation sets in. It will be nice when their first words are something other than "I have tried everything else...."

Kelley Woods said:

Lee and James K. most probably have a much higher percentage of clients whose issues involve their religious beliefs than I, and by that, I am not inferring that these beliefs cause the issues.
This discussion has made me consider that fact and realize that a significant number of my clients have been persons who have NO spiritual belief system. This may be just one of the reasons they have arrived at the point of desperation and at my office door.
Just musing...Kelley

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on December 1, 2009 at 3:53pm

Everyone believes in something, even when you believe in nothing... Nothing is something to believe in. So your core beliefs make up your personality... your "who I am". Can core beliefs change over time ... are they malleable to some extent? If I read James correctly his younger self was running the "fundementalist Christian trance package" while his older self rebooted him with the " Wiccian deluxe trance package" with a few widgets thrown in. Is that package likely to change if he has a life changing event like falling in Love with a devout Buddist? I would be embarrassed to tell you how many life Philosophies I have held before accepting the deeply and sincerely held religious beliefs that make me tick now. The point is that the whole ball of religious-ethics questions is a slowly evolving malleable moving target. The is a part of the essence of who you are. The essence of Humanity is growth and change. Religious views really only represent a filter through which your core self views and experiences life.
I tend to shy away from processes that espouse a religious viewpoint because they may be a less than perfect fit for the mental model or metaphor I am using with a subject. Rather I prefer to use "human structure" models such as mind body spirit. ... connection to universal energy models., . Soul healing, etc. That gives them something to play with that they can "fit" into thier world view. I also tend to use "content-free" models, so I am teaching processes to deal with memories as physical things. I don't see a lot of use for the clients experiences in Sherwood Forest as Maid Marion, rather I am intersted in the feelings and emotions that unconcious mind is representing as belonging to Maid Marion and I can get at them a bunch of differant ways than tramping through Sherwood Forest. So if it is my choice .. I shy away from PLR as a healing modality There are other tools that will get the same info without the obvious less than productive baggage.
If a client comes in and is curious about it.. Yes I will work with them... Why .. Because for some reason they want to get the information out that way. I have no trouble being the scribe. Do I care if it's real or if it's a fantasy ..NO because there is truth in every fantasy and the unconcious is willing to put it out there for the good of the client.
So I say again ... KEEP YOUR OWN RELIGIOUS BELIEFS OUT OF IT. .. STAY OUT OF YOUR OWN HEAD. It is not your job to make the whole world Christian or Muslim or Buddist or Jewish. Countries work hard at doing that now and still can't get it done. It is your job to make the world a better place to live in by helping one Christian or Jewish or Wiccian or Muslim client at a time.

Namaste
Hugh Cole
The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet

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Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig on December 1, 2009 at 8:39pm

Hugh,

I searched long and hard to find the Wiccan deluxe platform. The fundie Christian program kept crashing, as the architecture was extremely rigid. I went through quite a period of searching for a satisfying operating system, but none fit the bill until I found Wicca 2.0. Part of what I like about the Wiccan platform is that it's highly customizable and the software is compatible with a number of other operating systems, including Buddhism. So I'm not too worried about having to ditch it if I fall in love with a Buddhist. :-) (Curiously, it seems that I only fall in love with Pagan chicks. This is not on purpose, I swear!)

But like you, I checked out a lot of different philosophies before arriving at the deeply and sincerely held religious beliefs I have now. (Isn't it interesting that we have sincere religious beliefs, while others have trances?) I don't think expoloring different philosophies is anything to be embarrassed about. What I find shameful is blind acceptance of whatever faith one is born into--or the insistence that one knows the absolute Truth.

Take care,

James

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Permalink Reply by Pete Atan on December 2, 2009 at 12:25am

To keep matters in perspective you should look at the original point made and you will see that my comments were absolutely relevant as they directly concerned the Christian view on PLR. That is in fact why I answered the thread. If the question was how witches, warlocks, pagans or halloween pumpkins view PLR, I would have avoided the question and left matters up to such as you to debate.
Some of the responses to the question James raised were attempts to belittle the validity of the scriptures which was not in fact the point of the question. You could say I was somewhat emotive in my response but those of us who are true to our faith do at times become impassioned when our beliefs and values are sullied. I never seek to force my religion on anyone, indeed I avoid doing so unless specifically asked to comment as I was in this instance.
Actually you did have an effect on me with your subsequent post, the absurdity of if made me wince. However in one of your comments when you said…….

“Peter--You said my comments have no effect on you, yet you certainly sound outraged by them. Please try to remember the Ten Commandments prohibit lying”

As we have never spoken, the only sound of my voice must be in your head? Also as you quote the commandments to me perhaps I can reciprocate by pointing you to the first commandment?
When you say here that your intention was to bait me? You have way too much time on your hands and I really can’t take you seriously after making a comment like that; when really if you were sincere in your beliefs you would have replied from the position of faith and not merely in order to gain ground or antagonise me?
What is more disturbing is when you say

“I considered a number of other avenues of attack”

You really show your true colours here! I could go on and answer further points but I feel that I have wasted enough time in pointless endeavours such as communicating with you. I would be glad if you would refrain from any further dialogue directly with me as I find you to be at best distasteful and frankly somewhat creepy.

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Permalink Reply by Pete Atan on December 2, 2009 at 12:44am

Doreen I never directed any of my comments at you and that you interpreted them as such is more my fault than yours and for that I apologise. Not for my comments because I believe them to be true (and I respect James for being brave enough to raise the issue) but for the fact that you felt hurt and offended by the words I used. I am gutted that we have got off on the wrong foot like this, I absolutely value and respect you and I very much wanted to engage you in meaningful conversation about therapy models and Hypnosis. I am presently completing a Masters in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy and I would have relished the opportunity to discuss this with you and other experienced therapists. Sadly though the way events have unfolded here have created such a negative vibe that constructive dialogue is impossible. I would dearly love it if we could start again and reach some platform to build a professional relationship and even a friendship.. May I make the fist move...? “Hi Doreen, my name is Pete, it’s a great pleasure to make your acquaintance”

Doreen Cohanim C.Ht said:

WOW... Peter, So If I am not a Christian, I will not reach heaven? All I am going to say to you,is: How can you be so disrespectful to other other peoples beliefs and religion, and FYI I don't think it is for you to make that decision as who goes to haven and who doesn't...

Respectfully, Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
www.HypnoCruise.com

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Permalink Reply by Michael Haifleigh on December 2, 2009 at 2:39am

Lee,

Having said that you have an obligation to respect the beliefs of the client, how do you determine that “the client may be letting misunderstood beliefs get in the way of their growth and of overcoming their source of pain?”

Do you have an example of a client presenting “with an issue that their belief system blocks healing from?”

I ask in the spirit of discussing belief and how an understanding of it may be beneficial to a hypnosis practitioner in general or when working with clients that have adopted a well defined belief system.

Michael


Lee Pelletier said:

Kelly, I haven't tracked the percentages, but overall religion plays a small role in my practice. There is a reason why your thought that those with no personal spiritual belief system will sometimes have issues surrounding purpose and meaning. I have known many people with no belief system who were clear in terms of sense of purpose and meaning, so I am not suggesting a 1:1 correlation.

A belief system, for many people, provides a foundation or an anchor point that helps them find stability. At the same time, a lot of people who have belief systems still find themselves adrift. Basically, the bottom line issue is that regardless of our belief systems we have to help our clients in making choices wisely. Wisdom is shown by making good choices. We learn wisdom by learning from our unfortunate choices. That comes from understanding another principle of NLP, "there is no failure, only feedback."

By the way, positive feedback becomes very reinforcing. So much so that partial reinforcement is a very strong force in the development of habits and behaviors. Thus, if a particular approach to our hynpotic work is effective for certain clients, it is easy to "generalize" the part to the whole. We all know, from NLP about "Generalize, Distort and Delete". As you read the discussions on Hynothoughts you will see a great deal of that. I was guided away from over generalizing by what the teacher said in my first sales training experience in 1970 -- when as a guide against generalizing the leader said "All Indians walk in a single file, at least the one I saw did." That thought from Jeffrey Timmons and his team has helped me a lot through the years.

Kelly, I know a lot of what I said has nothing to do with your comment, but it seemed to fit on generalizing. From our prior interactions (anyone who reads your posts will be impressed with your breadth and depth of knowledge, and your thoughtfulness) I know that you adapt well to your clients. I do agree with you that the absence of a belief system, which I call an anchor or foundation, is a factor worth considering. I look forward to the day when clients come to our doors well before desperation sets in. It will be nice when their first words are something other than "I have tried everything else...."

Kelley Woods said:

Lee and James K. most probably have a much higher percentage of clients whose issues involve their religious beliefs than I, and by that, I am not inferring that these beliefs cause the issues.
This discussion has made me consider that fact and realize that a significant number of my clients have been persons who have NO spiritual belief system. This may be just one of the reasons they have arrived at the point of desperation and at my office door.
Just musing...Kelley

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on December 2, 2009 at 2:47am

Dear Pete,

Please no need to apologize, I was sarcastic, and no' I did not take your comment personally and I am not upset with you or with James or did I even felt hurt, well, not even offended, so... don't worry... I have been told that I have an elephant skin lol...

Maybe sometimes words comes out a little sharp, even like a stabbing knife, but I have grown strong and words do not get to me, I guess this is part of being a hypnotherapist does make me more assertive, beside once you know me well, you will see that I don't bark or bight hard, I just tease from time to time :), hope you can handle me...

Blessings, Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
PS: this responce is so old sand you sure have a delaied reaction lol

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