Play Acting vs Stage/Street Hypnosis

What is the same?

What are the differences?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig - HypnosisAustin on January 19, 2009 at 7:45am

Your post is a little vague. Could you expand on it so we'll know what you're getting at?

Certainly, there are some theorists who argue that there's no such thing as hypnosis, and that all of the weird behavior displayed by volunteers in hypnosis shows (stage or street) are simply play-acting, complying with social expectations and the social dynamic of the situation. I've heard that Penn and Teller did an entire expose about stage hypnosis putting forth that argument.

Some theorists extend that argument to hypnotherapy and medical hypnosis as well, saying that the patients comply with suggestions out of a desire to please the therapist or doctor.

I think both arguments are bullshit.

(Admittedly, a good performer can put on a hypnosis stage show without really knowing anything about hypnosis. I've seen it done. If you doubt me, go to a renaissance festival and watch the Ded Bob Show. He tells his volunteers that they are "Bobnotized" and then they do everything he tells them to. But the fact that something can be faked doesn't prove that it is always fake.)

I decided one day that I wanted to know (and wanted my audience to know) that my street hypnosis volunteer really was in a trance, not just play-acting. So I told him he couldn't say his name, and he couldn't say it. Then I reached into my wallet and pulled out a five-dollar-bill, which I offered to him if he could just say his name. He still couldn't. One of his friends came over and said, "Put away that pocket change!" The friend then offered a fifty-dollar-bill. From the look on the volunteer's face, I'm sure he would have loved to have claimed that fifty, but he still couldn't say his name.

We repeated the process with arm catelepsy, telling him that if he could just take the fifty with his right hand, he could have it. The volunteer strained and struggled, but he couldn't get that fifty. He even tried to snatch it with his other hand, which was free.

(I've since repeated this experiment with numerous volunteers, and I've never lost a dime on it.)

So if that was play-acting, that stranger cared enough about making my demonstration impressive that he passed up a free fifty dollars in this economy.

As for patients just trying to please their doctors--when my mother told her OB-GYN that she would give birth to me without anaesthetic using hypnosis, the doc rolled his eyes and told the nurses to get the morphine ready. She was clearly NOT trying to please her doctors!

Well, I don't know that's what you were getting at, but I hope my comments were useful in some way.

Cheers,

James

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on January 19, 2009 at 11:32am

Begs the question James, were these folks "refusing" the $$$ against their "will"? What are your thoughts?

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Permalink Reply by Buzz Collins on January 19, 2009 at 12:21pm

Moses,

Great question to put forth! Until I got in to stage hypnosis I wondered myself if stage hypnosis subjects were just desperate for attention and willing to play "improv" for the sake of some time in the spotlight.

My answer to that would be "no". I do think there are those subjects who attempt to do exactly that, and any half decent hypnotist can spot them immediately. However, when I see subjects exhibiting true somnambulistic characteristics and subconscious responses - even though they have never been previously informed of what that would entail - I feel quite confident that they are indeed in a trance state.

Buzz

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Permalink Reply by JP Morgan Jr on January 21, 2009 at 3:29am

Hi All,

Sorry for the delay in replying...didn't have a chance to get back here until now.

Having experienced trance phenomenon from both sides - hypnotist and hypnotee, I've become curious as to how others perceive what's actually happening. This is the reason I asked.

I find it difficult to see this as a black and white issue I suppose.

There are those moments of compliance to hypnotic suggestions, while at the same time I am aware that I am complying and yet still have the sense that I could not do it if I don't want to. I've experienced this at different levels, from near impossible conscious choice of non-compliance to "geeze, it would be more embarrassing right now if i did NOT perform this trance phenomenon".

It is understood that many GOOD magicians are actually befuddling far less than half of the people who appear befuddled. Spectators frequently report the correct solution to an effect and that they applauded or acted surprised because didn't want the magician to feel bad.

Incidentally I believe that it is those magicians who can see through such false reactions who are able to push themselves to a higher and more genuinely entertaining level of magic. In the same way, this may also be true with hypnotists...as I think Anthony Jacquin alluded to in his book Reality is Plastic. A high emotional awareness goes a long way in producing real emotional effects in people.

From the play-acting angle, the little time I've spent in improv acting, I've found myself drifting into character so deeply that my critical factor weakens and almost completely disappears in a similar way to hypnotically induced trance. My reality starts to transform and I begin to genuinely believe that the situation I am acting in is reality. I was even scolded by my instructor to remain in control after knocking over a pile of chairs and a standing floor lamp! The process of deepening into character was enjoyable and freeing, thus a positive feedback loop. This could be considered self-hypnosis in a sense.

From the perspective of suggestion and persuasion (i.e. conversational hypnosis) a person can be made to act without conscious awareness by bypassing their critical factor without a deep trance state. So, I think, deep trance would not be the thing that separates play acting from hypnotic phenomenon.

From the authoritative perspective of a stage hypnotist with autistic levels of awareness as to the response of their subjects, if he was incredibly authoritative he could still get them to act outside their conscious will. This is different than AGAINST their conscious will. His intensity would basically overload the subjects critical faculty and leave them choiceless to act on anything else but his commands. Shock and overload are obviously valid hypnotic techniques, but they are not techniques solely owned by the hypnotic community. Yelling at someone to do something has the same effect. Shock & overload -> reaction. If i walked up to someone sitting in the park and without explanation or physical threat I yelled "STAND UP! STAND UP! STAND UP!" they certainly would. However I don't think we would call this hypnosis! Must we pigeon-hole and classify these as different types of authoritative compliance phenomenon?

If not, I would then suggest, sliding further along our scale of what hypnotic phenomenon is, that seducing someone to partake in a certain act which is cognitively undesirable, yet emotionally desirable (i.e. sex from a married person), would as well be a form of hypnosis as their critical factor was overcome.

Or do we a draw a line in the sand here and say that getting past the critical factor with emotional overload is not hypnosis, but getting past it with cognitive overload or focus is?

The lack of solid a foundation for a definition of hypnosis is probably what makes this difficult to answer. If the critical factor actually turned on and off like a light switch, it would be a no brainier...

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Permalink Reply by Daryl Wilkinson on January 21, 2009 at 5:38am

A great topic Moses. What never seems to be acknowledged is that an actor ( or any performer for that matter) is in a state of hypnosis or the Zone as athletes call it. Focused concentration that bypasses the critical mind. Unfortunately many people mistake play acting for "showing off" which of course bad acting is. The better the actor, the deeper the trance, and believability both of the actor and audience, and if the actor is any good the audience will be "entranced".

My first encounter with hypnosis was when as a teenager in the early 1960's I was cured of asthma by a hypnotherapist. Shortly after I went to drama school where I studied to be an actor and I was taken by the similarities between my experiences of hypnosis and methods used in actor training. After a few years in "The Business" I went into teaching acting and theatre studies for the next 30 years. It became very clear to me that hypnotic trance states were central to acting. "Willing suspension of disbelief" was a phrase that was in common use in my early years. Isn't that exactly what happens when a person enters a hypnotic state? And isn't that what has to happen with stage hypnosis? The state of hypnosis is maintained by mutual agreement so already you need compliance for anything to happen.

Moses, you have discovered with your "Improv' acting a connection with the unconscious creative mind and you would know that once the critical analytical mind enters, the creative spontaneous part of the mind disappears and you can't perform. In that focused state a performer can do amazing things and not know how they did it. A musician friend of mine often records his improvisation sessions and admits that he wouldn't even be able to figure out the fingering of his instrument if he had to sit down and compose the piece.

Over the years I have seen many actors exhibit what members of this group would describe as "Hypnotic Phenomena" Amnesia, time distortion etc. Actors who have no memory of what they have just said or done on stage or even not remembering having been on stage an hour before, panicking because they think they have missed their cue. Singers who think they didn't sing all the verses when in fact they had.

In my view compliance and showmanship are very much part of stage hypnosis. You only have to watch a hypnosis show to see how many "show offs" and bad actors there are, yeah.... they make us laugh, but so does the class clown, but occasionally you do see some great genuine real "acting" in a trance state in those shows.

It is reported that Keith Johnston, the famous guru of improvisational theatre, often prepared his students for a session of improvisation by getting them to walk around the room and miss name objects. (e.g. point to a book and call it a chair, point to a door and call it a spoon etc.) After 5 or 10 minutes of this they were ready to improvise. The conscious critical rational analytical mind just gives up and the creative unconscious is ready to work. Sounds like a confusion induction to me.....

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Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig - HypnosisAustin on January 21, 2009 at 5:59am

@Moses--Thanks for clarifying. I misunderstood and thought you were using the term "play-acting" in the layman's sense of "faking." I minored in theater, and I agree with you that a good actor experiences a sort of trance, as does the audience.

@Daryl--As a comedian/musician, I've definitely experienced those on-stage trance phenomena. I've had those moments when an improvisation suddenly came out during the middle of a performance, and I've learned to just trust my unconscious to guide my fingers through it. If I panic and try to take conscious control, all is lost. Similarly, I've had many a great show which I could not recall the details of later. I know I had the audience rolling with laughter, but I don't remember what it was anyone said . . .

Great discussion.

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Permalink Reply by JP Morgan Jr on January 21, 2009 at 6:11am

I suppose I wasn't clear on the definition of play-acting, though I doubt most people are of the deliniation between play and real acting.

Yes this has turned out to be very interesting. Thank you for the great responses. Anyone else with thoughts from any perspective please chime in!

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Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig - HypnosisAustin on January 21, 2009 at 6:39am

Well, this wasn't really a discussion of the "against their will" question, so I don't think I begged the question. :-) But since you were so kind as to ask, here are my thoughts on that:

My volunteers' critical factors had definitely been disengaged, so when I told them their mouths were stuck shut, or that they'd forgotten their name, or that they were simply unable to say their name, they believed me at a deep unconscious level. They believed it so strongly that even the offer of money couldn't break it.

But as you ask, was that "against their will?" That question really revolves around what is meant by "against their will."

Here's what I think:

If, going into it, I had said, "Hey, in a few minutes, I'll tell you to forget your name, and there's fifty bucks riding on it," most volunteers would have been able to work at ignoring my suggestions, remembering their name, and saying it when the time came. They would have set their will against my suggestions and indeed against going into trance, and in my experience, that would work. Because the situation snuck up on them, it really wasn't a matter of will. If you trip and fall off a cliff, you don't have any choice about gravity bearing you downwards. Likewise, if you and I are dancing, and I'm leading, and I waltz you off that cliff, you didn't go there against your will; you just went there not realizing what would happen. Once you're falling, you're not falling "against your will."

(Admittedly, you can get shoved off a cliff by a stronger person. That is where I believe the metaphor breaks down, except in the sense that if you believe the other person is strong enough to push you, you won't keep your footing. Likewise, if you believe that a hypnotist can take over your mind, you will fail to engage your will.)

Now, I realize you didn't use the word "morals," but since that term often gets conflated with "will," I want to address that question, too. For most people, losing a bet is not morally repugnant. I don't like losing a bet, but it doesn't revolt me the way that torturing kittens would, for example.

In summary, I don't think I violated my volunteers' will or morals with what I did.

My take on it,

James

P.S. I really hope this thread doesn't get hijacked by this topic, which has been discussed at length elsewhere.

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Permalink Reply by JP Morgan Jr on January 22, 2009 at 2:24am

Hello Paul,

Yes, highly sensible.

I do believe the common idea of a free will is fully illusory, but don't try to get to many people to swallow that pill!

(A great read on this idea is Arthur Schopenhauer's "Essay on the Freedom of Will".)

I do think consciousness is real as defined from a perspective of an emerging system, however it is important to note that it is strictly the subjective experience which gives rise to it's existence.

I am just starting to see this now, but maybe why I brought up this topic while at the same time not truly believing in the existence of free will, is because as a magician "Did the guy do what I wanted?" is not my only desired outcome. In fact its about half.

My interest is also on the reaction of my spectator. The question I am asking myself is "Am I creating a magical experience in the 'guy' and in my spectator?"

If it looks like play acting to my spectator, than for all (my) intensive purposes, it is.

Thanks so much, this has helped me clarify quite a bit...

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Permalink Reply by Robert Dodge on January 22, 2009 at 2:51am

This is an excellent post moses and can I also recommend the book Daryl mentioned " Improv "by Keith Johnston I bought this after attending Ian Rowland's Cold Reading Masterclass in London as he recommended it to anyone who had a real interest in cold reading.
A few have mentioned that although the similarities can be agreed upon between hypnosis and good acting it does not explain the fully somnambulists who cannot be accused of acting and this is the highest level of trance.

There are 2 breeds of hypnotist - the true believers and those who use the name to explain the phenomenom but maybe just use acting skills or indeed a third type who know it exists but do not bother to go into depth when acting alone will be sufficient.

As has been mentioned we are all performers all said and done and everyone has their own belief and ethics,with these they continue to make differences in peoples lives or entertain people.

The Choice is yours !

Regards
Robert

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Permalink Reply by Pattie Freeman CH.t, MST on February 21, 2009 at 10:55pm

Play acting is just that...street and stage hypnosis is not fake/play acting it's the real thing..just the mind taking over and acting what it wants to do.