Regression to a Pre-Dementia Time

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on November 4, 2009 at 3:07pm

Roger,
Having looked into this for my 86 yo father who has Alzheimer's, I can tell you what I got from his doctor. Alzheimer's disease deals with the physical shrinking and deterioration of the brain itself. This is why we lose different functions and why it is irreversible. We can slow it down with drugs like Aricept, but that's all it does, just slows it down.

I hope this helps
John

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on November 4, 2009 at 7:52pm

Hi Roger,

Of course, I'm not a doctor and not qualified to diagnose or treat any illness. But I think this is an interesting podcast that might be helpful for anyone dealing with sudden delirium in an elderly person. It was broadcast on NPR's Fresh Air a couple of months ago.

Interview: Malaz Boustani, MD Center for Healthy Aging Indiana University School of Medicine
Podcast: Common Meds & Cognitive Impairment in the Elderly

Confusion, and even delirium, are common problems among elderly people.

New findings suggest that common medications, many of them over-the-counter, may actually damage brain function in elderly patients. These side-effects can be long-lasting, even permanent. The dangerous medications have familiar names, such as Benadryl and Excedrin PM.

Indiana University researcher Malaz Boustani is nationally known for his studies in dementia and delirium in the elderly. Today he discusses his findings with Sound Medicine's Dr. Steve Bogdewic.

Malaz Boustani, MD, is an associate professor of medicine and a research scientist at the Center for Healthy Aging at the IU School of Medicine.

Kathleen
The Pretty Goodest Public Relations, Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet™
Click @KathleenHanover to follow me on Twitter

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Permalink Reply by Ed Lester on November 4, 2009 at 8:15pm

My knee jerk reaction is also no but it's interesting isn't it. Stammering often vanishes in hypnosis so I'm also finding myself wondering "why not"

Be interesting to hear your results Roger and if I can dig out any studies or research I'll be sure to come back and post here.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Witherspoon on November 5, 2009 at 3:21am

I would be tempted to do it as an experiment I would tell the care givers that you have no evidence that hypnosis would work for the problem but it might have some positive effects.

It would seem that you would have to do this at a time when the client is most lucid.

It would be an interesting experiment.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on November 5, 2009 at 5:07am

Hey Roger-

I fully agree with Chris--

Let's not forget Brain Plasticity -- I would suggest exploring this possibility within the realm of experimental hypnosis and hope for the best--

Keep us in the loop

Michael E.

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on November 5, 2009 at 6:06am

Hmmm...perhaps it is not possible to regress the man back to a specific time when he had the ability to speak but what if it IS possible to let him just imagine that he does! The question, therefore, is: do Alzheimers patients have imagery ability?

I'm thinking about how it would feel NOT to imagine anything...Roger! What have you started here?!

Kelley

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Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on November 5, 2009 at 9:23am

If we are constantly creating new cells and replace our body in just over a year - why would anyone have to continue to create Alzheimer's? Couldn't healthy cells be created?

Oh - Kelley - imagine not being able to imagine - I don't even want to go there!

Kelley Woods said:

Hmmm...perhaps it is not possible to regress the man back to a specific time when he had the ability to speak but what if it IS possible to let him just imagine that he does! The question, therefore, is: do Alzheimers patients have imagery ability?

I'm thinking about how it would feel NOT to imagine anything...Roger! What have you started here?!

Kelley

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Permalink Reply by Raymond LeBleu on November 5, 2009 at 1:34pm

Hello Roger.....regarding your "Alzheimers" friend of a friend.....I would want to know who diagnosed this person as suffering from "Alzheimers" in the first place and just how accurate that diagnosis is.....

In my opinion, the description of this person and their sudden symptoms of failing memory and speech failure etc. is suspicious and warrants a closer diagnostic assessment and evaluation.....This person may indeed be experiencing something quite different than "Alzheimers" such as severe depression or be experiencing debilating effects from some medication etc.....

A good site on Alzheimers is alz.org, but remembering that the biggest mistake in medicine is misdiagnosis and hence mistreatment is a good thing to bear in mind here...... if hypnosis is done on this person for restoring his speech and the problem is something else, like depression, there is a possibility that hypnosis would fail and the acupuncturist would then be able to say "see there, hypnosis doesn't work"..... and there is a distinct possibility that you have been set up by that acupuncturist in an effort to throw dirt on hypnosis.....and this is especially true in this day and time when disproving hypnosis for any kind of health care is in vogue with such practitioners as acupunturists and physical therapists etc......

Also, being 66 doesn't necessarily mean someone is more of a candidate for Alzheimers......

Hope this helps!

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Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on November 5, 2009 at 2:47pm

Not to worry about the acupuncturist - she is a strong advocate for hypnosis - that is why she is asking the question.

Raymond LeBleu said:

Hello Roger.....regarding your "Alzheimers" friend of a friend.....I would want to know who diagnosed this person as suffering from "Alzheimers" in the first place and just how accurate that diagnosis is.....

In my opinion, the description of this person and their sudden symptoms of failing memory and speech failure etc. is suspicious and warrants a closer diagnostic assessment and evaluation.....This person may indeed be experiencing something quite different than "Alzheimers" such as severe depression or be experiencing debilating effects from some medication etc.....

A good site on Alzheimers is alz.org, but remembering that the biggest mistake in medicine is misdiagnosis and hence mistreatment is a good thing to bear in mind here...... if hypnosis is done on this person for restoring his speech and the problem is something else, like depression, there is a possibility that hypnosis would fail and the acupuncturist would then be able to say "see there, hypnosis doesn't work"..... and there is a distinct possibility that you have been set up by that acupuncturist in an effort to throw dirt on hypnosis.....and this is especially true in this day and time when disproving hypnosis for any kind of health care is in vogue with such practitioners as acupunturists and physical therapists etc......

Also, being 66 doesn't necessarily mean someone is more of a candidate for Alzheimers......

Hope this helps!

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Permalink Reply by Andreas Tenhagen on November 7, 2009 at 10:18am

Hello Roger,

this could be helpful....scroll down to Dr. Dan Nightingale.....he has some experience in that.

http://www.hypnotherapyuk.net/HIDDEN/Prospectus/teaching_staff.htm

Greetings Andreas


Roger Moore, PhD said:

Not to worry about the acupuncturist - she is a strong advocate for hypnosis - that is why she is asking the question.

Raymond LeBleu said:

Hello Roger.....regarding your "Alzheimers" friend of a friend.....I would want to know who diagnosed this person as suffering from "Alzheimers" in the first place and just how accurate that diagnosis is.....

In my opinion, the description of this person and their sudden symptoms of failing memory and speech failure etc. is suspicious and warrants a closer diagnostic assessment and evaluation.....This person may indeed be experiencing something quite different than "Alzheimers" such as severe depression or be experiencing debilating effects from some medication etc.....

A good site on Alzheimers is alz.org, but remembering that the biggest mistake in medicine is misdiagnosis and hence mistreatment is a good thing to bear in mind here...... if hypnosis is done on this person for restoring his speech and the problem is something else, like depression, there is a possibility that hypnosis would fail and the acupuncturist would then be able to say "see there, hypnosis doesn't work"..... and there is a distinct possibility that you have been set up by that acupuncturist in an effort to throw dirt on hypnosis.....and this is especially true in this day and time when disproving hypnosis for any kind of health care is in vogue with such practitioners as acupunturists and physical therapists etc......

Also, being 66 doesn't necessarily mean someone is more of a candidate for Alzheimers......

Hope this helps!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on November 7, 2009 at 8:07pm

I received this response from Tim Brunson (http://www.hypnosisresearchinstitute.org/) - thought I'd share it here: This is interesting. I recall recently reading in a neurology book that it is believed that Alzheimer’s is related to damage in various parts of the limbic system. I think that it was the hippocampus and the thalamus. If this is true and there is in fact neurological damage, I don’t think that regression would work. The assumption here is that if you could recall the prior state either the damage would have to repair or the brain’s plasticity would allow the functions of the damaged substrates to relocate to other parts of the limbic system or neocortex.

While this is interesting (and an area for which I am unaware of any research regarding Alzheimer’s), it is an intriguing idea. Peter Taub, PhD, at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, has done a lot of work with stroke victims. For instance, it someone has loss the use of their right arm, he would constrain their left arm. This would force the brain to relocate the right arm function from the damaged parts of the brain to somewhere else in the bran. This is sort of like blind people using their occipital lobes for reading brail versus processing sight.



The question would be if the regression could spark a plasticity response. If it does, then I am sure that like Taub’s work, it would require a protocol involving multiple sessions as the brain would have to retrain itself to shift the function to an undamaged part of the brain. Taub believe that all neural substrates have more than enough “spare tires” to allow them to accept non-traditional roles.



I hope that this helps.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Witherspoon on November 8, 2009 at 4:12am

Thanks Rodger for the interesting info.

Roger Moore, PhD said:

I received this response from Tim Brunson (http://www.hypnosisresearchinstitute.org/) - thought I'd share it here: This is interesting. I recall recently reading in a neurology book that it is believed that Alzheimer’s is related to damage in various parts of the limbic system. I think that it was the hippocampus and the thalamus. If this is true and there is in fact neurological damage, I don’t think that regression would work. The assumption here is that if you could recall the prior state either the damage would have to repair or the brain’s plasticity would allow the functions of the damaged substrates to relocate to other parts of the limbic system or neocortex.

While this is interesting (and an area for which I am unaware of any research regarding Alzheimer’s), it is an intriguing idea. Peter Taub, PhD, at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, has done a lot of work with stroke victims. For instance, it someone has loss the use of their right arm, he would constrain their left arm. This would force the brain to relocate the right arm function from the damaged parts of the brain to somewhere else in the bran. This is sort of like blind people using their occipital lobes for reading brail versus processing sight.



The question would be if the regression could spark a plasticity response. If it does, then I am sure that like Taub’s work, it would require a protocol involving multiple sessions as the brain would have to retrain itself to shift the function to an undamaged part of the brain. Taub believe that all neural substrates have more than enough “spare tires” to allow them to accept non-traditional roles.



I hope that this helps.

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