Sacred Cow: We must facilitate CLIENT-centered hypnosis rather than hypnotist-centered trances if we are to truly empower our clients.

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on March 5, 2009 at 1:43pm

wrooooong?

Nice try... but no coconut

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on March 5, 2009 at 1:53pm

Awe come on Fable... articulate!

Are you claiming you do not do intake interviews or that thats not why you do them?

More info please, in the gentlest of textures.

J

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on March 5, 2009 at 3:45pm

AHA! This is something I was thinking should be brought up.

I think "client-centered" actually means something useful in the context of counseling and therapy proper.

But in the context of hypnotic coaching, in my opinion, "client-centered" has come to be a meaningless marketing phrase used by practitioners who want to make the prospect think that the hypnotist REALLY REALLY cares a lot about them as Very Special People.

You make an important point about utilizing the client's internal model and subjective experience, instead of the hypnotist's overlaying with their own. But all of this work should be like that, I think --- it doesn't require a special name.

If you think about it, if the phrase "client-centered" meant anything of substance in terms of a specific approach to this work, there should be a meaningful opposite approach. What would the opposite of client-centered be?

Hypnotist-centered? Well another name for that would just be "piss-poor hypnosis". I don't think anyone would advocate that.

Process-centered? Not really. In fact, I think use of an organized, systematic process can make it much easier to observe and make use of the differences in each unique client, because it allows you to focus on what's important without being distracted by relatively trivial concerns like "what technique should I use next" or "what script should I use"?

I conclude that the phrase "client-centered hypnosis" is drivel.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on March 5, 2009 at 6:00pm

This is kind of tricky because the US Institute of Medicine lists "Patient-centered" as one of the six qualities of sound Medical Care:

That suggests to me if you are practicing 5 of the 6 and practicing Hypnotist-centered therapy - You are not practicing within the spirit of the standards of quality care...


1-Safe, 2-Effective, 3-Patient-centered, 4-Timely, 5-Efficient, 6-Equitable...

M

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on March 5, 2009 at 7:17pm

Hi Michael,

I hear where you are coming from... I don't see your machete anywhere! But putting that aside for now... you bring an interesting perspective to the alter.

However my inner imp begs the question what do you mean by "hypnotist centered therapy"? I would answer experimental hypnosis, where in the outcome is entirely directed by the operator. The notion of client centered hypnotherapy seems redundantly redundant in a client/hypnotist relationship.

The spirit of the phrase is embodied in the healthy client/hypnotist relationship, in this day and age, one would hope, and if not then the proof will be in the pudding. I suspect however, much like Institutional Medicine, a great deal of placebo effect at work in the lives of many a paying subject, and that is good for them.. sometimes it up to one's own to "get your money's worth"... also known as "all hypnosis is self hypnosis".

It's a statement that can't be disagreed with... a distinction that's not... so I put it to the reader... of what use is it?

Grump Master Flash spoke well in his post... The phrase is a pouring of the empty into the void... but it sounds nice. Now off with it's head!

J

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Permalink Reply by Roy Hunter on March 5, 2009 at 9:22pm

My definition of CLIENT centered hypnosis means that we fit the technique to the client rather than trying to fit the client to our technique.

INDUCTION: Your favorite induction will work with most of the clients most of the time; but if the client fails to respond to your favorite induction, CHANGE INDUCTIONS!

DEEPENING: Analytical resisters are more likely to enjoy lasting results if you invest enought time to deepen properly. Several times over the years, when exchanging sessions, another hypnotist has told me: "Take yourself down..." When it is my turn to be client, I need to be THOROUGHLY DEEPENED in order to reduce the risk of my analytical part inhibiting my success.

TECHNIQUE: If the client's problem occurred in the past, use regression to ISE. (Suggestion and imagery will help some of the people some of the time, but not most of the people most of the time.) If the client's problem is the result of an inner conflict, use parts therapy. (Get my book, HYPNOSIS FOR INNER CONFLICT RESOLUTION: INTRODUCTING PARTS THERAPY. It is available on my website.) If you are not sure which technique to use, then employ ideomotor response questions in order to determine whether the cause is: (1) authority imprint, (2) present unresolved issue, (3) secondary gain, (4) identification with a mentor, (5) inner conflict, (6) past painful event, or (7) self-punishment.

Note that EFT, NLP, and other releasing techniques will work IF the core cause is spontaneously discovered and releasted. However, why HOPE that it happens accidentally when you can use a technique that can intentionally discover and release the core cause?

Use whatever techniques are most appropriate for the client in order to help him/her DISCOVER the core cause(s), and then to RELEASE the cause(s) and the emotional attachment to said cause(s); and then use suggestion and imagery to help the client RE-PROGRAM the subconscious (which I call subconscious re-learning).

These four hypnotherapy objectives (suggestion & imagery, discover the cause, release, and subconscious relearning) are what I consider to be the FOUNDATION of client centered hypnosis.

Recently a graduating hypnotherapist in the UK asked me what I consdered to be the most important part of my teachings, which was a part of his final exam before becoming certified. I told him that I believe the four hypnotherapy objectives above are the FOUNDATION of client centered hypnosis. They serve as a guiding light to help you evaluate the efficacy of ANY hypnotic technique you learn.

Roy Hunter, M.S., FAPHP
www.royhunter.com

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on March 5, 2009 at 9:59pm

Hi Roy,

Thanks for the post.. a gold mine!

I think the model you present is of deep value... so what was your ISE regarding finger snapping? Hypothetically could you release that, and enjoy the sensations of letting a simple sound take you deeper?

I've heard hypnosis is like a piano, if you know how to play it seems easy, if you don't it seems a miracle.

J

PS: what do you think of the most recent Zap video?

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on March 6, 2009 at 9:03am

Hi J -

No machette - Just the joyful exchange of opinions...

I am a freaking hypnosis practitioner -- I get a buzz out of giving new and improved meanings to the symbols that used to harm my clients.

I use "client centered" as a conceptual tool that preps my clients for taking responsibility for their lives, health and hypnotic outcomes--- "Ellnerian" client centered hypnosis begins with the clients perspective, blah, blah, blah...

Hey Grand Master Grump-

You are nit-picking -- "Hypnotism", "hypnosis" and "hypnotherapy" are throw-away terms as well - Why pick on "client centered?"

My dear Roy,

I love ya and you are not walking your talk --


You write: (Suggestion and imagery will help some of the people some of the time, but not most of the people most of the time.)

Let me be the first to lovingly say: BULLSHIT!

This is nothing more than your opinion and a popular belief, albeit a very widely held belief-- Besides, in my opinion "going to the core" techniques are still operating on imagery and suggestion just like every every other hypnotic technique... only in the "going to the core" techniques the client is imaging that they are "going to the core..."

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on March 6, 2009 at 9:12am

I agree with you Michael,

As far as I can understand, the imagination is a bit like the 'Machine Code' of our compter-like brain.

All suggestions are converted into imagery, wether the subject is consiously aware of those images or not.

When we talk to a client/subject we are painting pictures, in their mind, which is like talking to the brain in it's own language (machine code), changes take place as a result of the subjects mind working consciously, and unconsciously with those images.

When the subject is stongly aware of those images, then it is certainly more entertaining for them, and also opens the way for interactive guided imagery, to fine tune the process. So there are some advantages to this mode, but with or without awareness of the images, hyposis is still effective, if you work with what the client presents, rather than with what we deludedly imagine they need.

Just a few of my thoughts on this.

Apologies Jonathan, for my earlier terse response.


Love and hugs,

Fable

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Permalink Reply by Richard Clark MFT on March 6, 2009 at 9:37am

Hey Grumpy,

You wrote "I think "client-centered" actually means something useful in the context of counseling and therapy proper."

Can you tell us what the useful meaning is in these contexts?

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Permalink Reply by the grumpy hypnotist on March 6, 2009 at 10:38am

Well from what I understand in counseling and talk therapy there is a specific kind of approach to that work that falls under the umbrella "client-centered", because it is non-directive and doesn't rely on therapist trying to analyze or diagnose the client. In that world, this distinction is useful because there are other valid approaches that perhaps aren't like that.

But in the hypnosis field, that distinction is useless and redundant because unlicensed hypnotists should not be trying to analyze, diagnose or prescribe "treatments" for people in the first place.

When the definition of "client-centered" is offered as: not trying to fit the client into the technique, that to me is just the same thing as "good" hypnosis --- as long as the technique is applied neutrally. So, when I see people declaring that they are a "client-centered" practice, that just makes me scratch my head and go "What is the alternative?"

In addition to that phrase being a patronizing marketing device, I also think that it can often be used to rationalize a hypnotist's letting a client "take control" or the process. ie:

client: "Oh, that's not going to work, I read an article about how it's supposed to be done."

hypnotist: "OK, you're the client, you know what's best for you. We'll only do whatever you're comfortable with."

I think there is a big difference between respecting the client and working within his experience and model, vs. being eager to please the client and wanting to make sure they are not challenged. The idea of a "client-centered" approach makes it easy for hypnotists to avoid having to assert themselves in a healthy, teamwork-based relationship with the client, thus perpetuating a practitioner's insecurity.

(Of course, I am not saying that everyone who declares themselves to be "client-centered" is afflicted by that rationalization)

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Permalink Reply by Richard Clark MFT on March 6, 2009 at 11:35am

I think that is a very good explanation and your points are well taken.

Hypnosis and Client-Centered Therapy, as originally coined by Carl Rogers, are completely antithetical approaches to healing. Client-Centered does not only mean "submitting to the clients model of the world" or not relying "on therapist trying to analyze or diagnose the client" alone but is, as you stated, non-directive. The goal in Client-Centered Therapy is that the technique is NO technique. Simply mirroring for the client.

The closest Hypnosis approach to this is doing Blind Therapy allowing the subconscious to do all the work by itself.

I do think that Michael's approach to Hypnosis (please correct me if I have misinterpreted this Michael) does have some footing for being termed Client-Centered Hypnosis in that he does not rely on technique for the healing. He simply sets the expectation for healing and relies on that to do the work regardless of what patter he engages in during the session.

I think that the definition of "using what the client brings in" is not the same as being client-centered. It is ecologically sound and I agree with you it is a good approach to hypnosis, yet it is a distraction from the established meaning of client-centered therapy.

And, although you and I may agree it is a good approach to hypnosis, many Hypnotists run the exact same process with every client. Many consult their script book for this or that and follow the script, many regress to ISE on each issue, some use PLR always, some spirit releasement, and many of these people get results and feel their way is a viable alternative.

In general I think there are some approaches to hypnosis that are MORE client-centered then others, such as Michael's, and that there can be something more defining then just marketing buzz by using the term. Although I'm not sure that's how the term is currently being used.

I do not think anyone that approaches every client with regression to cause or PLR or Spirit releasement can honestly call themselves Client-Centered Hypnotists.

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